It will certainly be enough of a shock to the system to test our economies over all strength. Social Security is already close to not bringing in enough money. GM bankruptcy and the 100's of thousands unemployed would certainly push that over the edge.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...RANpQD984VJH80

Social Security has been going bankrupt for decades now, where have you been? :lol: Then again, it's a ponzi scheme so I don't see why anybody is really shocked by it. I'm all for just cutting our losses on the whole program. So with that said, I have no idea why you're injecting social security talk into this discussion.

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy the whole doomsday talk that we'll go into a full blown depression if GM goes away. People seem to think that the people will just go to living in boxes and the factories will simply disappear into the abyss. Other companies and investors will come in and buy the bits and pieces up and start new companies or expand their existing ones. Some of the best companies in the world today got their starts during economic hard times.

In my own personal opinion, Americans are not fond of the cold hard truth. Particularly when the facts point out some harsh realities.

One fact some Americans struggle with is that being able look for a job is a right, but having a job is NOT.

Some time back I was waiting for a flight out of Detroit. Any smoker who knows the Wayne County airport knows that the Fox lounge is where you can have a cigarette.

I had the chance to meet a gent from England who was in the employ of a British firm which make home and commercial plumbing products. The subject of China came up in the conversation. He advised that his company was forced by financial realities to move all their production to China. Labor and regulation issues had driven their competitors to China and thus his company had to follow suit. He told me what I already knew; a business which is price competitvely driven will have to match or beat the competition on price and costs dictate price.

He said that as much as they didn't want to relocate their production, their competitors had, so they were FORCED to follow suit. The consumer demanded they follow suit.

I certainly don't believe all GM product will be imported, no where near.

I think most will agree that to compete you have to compete and exceed at all levels. That means technology, design, quality, AND all other cost management.

Most Americans DO NOT care why a product costs what it costs. They don't care who made it. They care about how good it is and what it costs them to own it. It's a case of the right of free association. Abstract notions of morality just don't factor in unless peer pressure make them a consideration.

Yes, some do care. Some do look at where something is made and make choices based on that.

"What's in it for me?" is the general rule.

GM has to compete based on product and price. Getting that assured is the only goal reorganization should have. Any playing of favorites for politics is not straightening anything out for any period of time. Consumers are the decision makers in the final analysis. Doing what they want better be the key as they are the only "sacred cow" you can't afford to piss off.

I will not buy a Chinese GM car. Period. Ever. End of story. I will only buy Canadian/American built, American-comapny owned cars. Period. I talked my mother-in-law out of an Equinox 2 years ago because of the Chinese 3.4.

Of course, realize I am not the typical American consumer. My Sharp microwave was built in North Carolina. Our solid cherry bedroom set we purchased 2 years ago was made in NH. My wife's new saddle was made in TX. The Xtant amplifiers in both of my Camaros were made in the US. (I don't think ANY other electronics I have are US made!).

ANY TIME I CAN BUY AMERICAN, I do. I check the label on EVERYTHING I buy, and if there is a US made equivalent, even if it costs me more, I buy it. My wife laughs along with me when we're at a horse tack shop and I flip everything over before I buy it...she does now, too! Our dog doesn't even have Chinese chew toys! I have a Craftsman lawnmower instead of a Honda!

I'm obssessed...and I wish I wasn't alone on this one.

I salute your choice.:yes:

You see, that's precisely the problem! Give us the necessary money, or else doom and gloom and armageddon. Because the federal government insures these failures, there is no incentive to prevent them - after all, the government insures us. Thus, reckless policies by the banking/car/whatever industry.

The bailout game has been played for many many decades. It's unfortunate that public at large is absolutely ignorant of history and keeps making the same mistake over and over and over again.

And you seem to have bought into the whole "let GM fail, and the whole economy will collapse" fear mongering tactic. No, things would not be pretty. But let this happen once, twice, and companies would learn. Perhaps it would be best to start with the banks though - no bailout whatsoever.

Sigh, one can only dream of such unrealities.

Isn't this essentially political posturing trying to get the CAW to cave? Notice they are talking about increasing imports from everywhere but Canada, where they are decreasing numbers, essentially saying, "we don't need you". :think:

Actually, wasn't the public at large very much against a bailout of GM and Chrysler as well as against all the TARP and Stimulus nonsense?

I think the public were the ones who had learned from history.

I doubt any CAW concessions would make Canadian production costs lower China producing costs and I think production costs is what this move is all about.

Toyota imports roughly 1.5 million vehicles into North America every year, or 45% of their annual North American sales. American's from all over kept saying GM needed to be more like Toyota. Well this is it, aren't we proud of this fine accomplishment!?!?!?! Our country is simply becoming stupid.

None of the Chinese produced Prius' make it to US shores?

This is not a good thing for us hardcore American product guys. I didn't get a Hemi engine in my Jeep because they're made in Mexico (along with some electrical bugs). I sure as hell won't buy a car made in China, even if it's a new Corvette that costs $20K.

This would be an interesting experiment. Place two identical GM cars side-by-side in the middle of a suburban mall. One has a sticker price of $24,000 on it. The other has an additional option on its sticker that reads: "Domestic Production option... $5,000." The only difference is that it was produced in the U.S., whereas the other was produced in, say, China. Then ask folks which they would purchase.

:bow:

YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED RIGHT THERE AND HAD ME WITH YOU 100%.

I'm not going to get into yet another flame war about global policy and global economics. I am utterly amazed at how people ignore 1500 years of history and the lessons it offers us to help guide us forward. To he11 with learning something from the past... full speed ahead... into oblivion. :rolleyes:

Manufacturing is the key to economic growth... period. If you have it, you are the king of earth. If you don't, you are a follower of some other nation that does.

One other thing... all these comments about Mr O and how he is paying the neighbor's mortgage... I don't recall the previous president imposing or enforcing any policy to prevent the financial industry from allowing banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford them. I also don't recall Mr. O being the president that stood before congress last August and initiated the bank bailouts. Recall McCain was touting how he was first to leave the campaign trail to get back to Washington for the special hearings on a Friday night.
And AT LEAST the car company loans are LOANS. What Mr. B gave away was a free gift.
Mr. O, as you refer to him, is no more to blame for this mess than anyone, and he has appointed republicans to his administration to help fix the problems we face... more effort than can be heaped onto the previous lot.

So let's tone down the blame-game on the sitting stooge we have now for a while. I'd personally rather see the stupid family that bought a house they can't afford take 10 more years to pay it off rather than see it sit empty and see banks and lenders lose even more money on it (because they'll just come back to the government for more free handouts if that happens).

Meh, actually GWB DID try to reform Fannie and Freddie but was blocked repeatedly. Alarm bells were going off about the risky sub-prime mortgage practices back in 2005, if I remember correctly. Here ends the politics portion of the program. :)

Proud, it is becoming more and more apparent (at least, to me) that these loans will probably never be repaid. I could be wrong though.