Yeah, yeah, I know it's MT, but it's something I've been thinking about anyway...

http://www.motortrend.com/features/a..._on/index.html

 

Sounds to me like G8 wearing Chevy clothes, aka Caprice -- just an updated version with lower weight and probably some other improvements.

No complaints here -- I hope it's true. Damn MT for getting my hopes up!

 

I'd love a midsize RWD sedan with a 312HP V6, 29mpg, and a 6 speed manual.

 

A Zeta sedan, built on the Camaro's platform, for Camaro money would be very interesting. A V8 and stick would make it even better. What would you call it? Not Chevelle, I wouldn't think.

Anyway, although it's great fun to talk about, I don't think we'll see anymore Zetas built at Oshawa (or anywhere else in NA) after Camaro runs it's course. Whichever Zeta we get here, will be imported from Aus.

I also wouldn't hold my breathe for a $120,000 Zeta Cadillac. I mean, even if Caddy were going to play there, why would they use a decade old (by then) mainstream architecture? That would be kinda dumb and full of fail. Something like that really warrants an all new architecture.

But a 5th gen Camaro sized sedan would be pretty cool and something I'd definitely consider, especially with a GenV smallblock and M6. It would make a nice daily driver and it could share the garage with my 6th gen Z/28.

 

Zeta is still very much alive as is RWD in future vehicles. Zeta is planned to be around at least till the end of the decade, while Sigma is expected to be around for only another 5 years, tops.

The big draw to Zeta is that it's a low cost to produce chassis that has excellent space efficiency. is extremely solid, and has very good handling characteristics. However, like every other IRS RWD car of it's size, it's a little heavy compared to what's needed to achieve future higher CAFE numbers in volume cars.

The drawback to Zeta (and why it was cancelled here in North America under the old GM) was that Zeta required setting up a whole new supplier base here in North America that would have cost GM a ton of money they didn't have. Camaro easily happened because it was a low enough production vehicle that much of it's hardware could be sourced using Holden's supplier network.

Despite GM's changed status and finances, that has not changed. Zeta is very unlikely to be manufactured in North America beyond Camaro.

Motor Trend's prediction is based on GM's plan to bring a vehicle to Chevrolet showrooms based on the next gen Holden.

The "shorter" of the 2 wheelbases of the Zeta is the next gen Commodore (formerly the G8 here).... NOT a 4 door Camaro as they seem to be hinting at.

The Camaro will continue to be made in North America. The upcoming Impala replacement will be made in the same factory along with the US built Buick Regal.

Camaro's flex line is currently the perfered assembly place of the Alpha cars.

Speaking of the Alpha cars, if Camaro moves to that chassis expect one of 2 things to happen.

a) The chassis picks up weight for Camaro.
b) Camaro's horsepower numbers go down.

Alpha isn't going to be engineered as a 500+ horsepower chassis. It's purpose is is weight, balence, and handling.

We may see Camaro continue to offer a V8. But it almost certainly won't be a 425 horse 6.2 liter, let alone a 500+ horse Z28.

Get used to the V6.... but you'll see power levels increasing. Quite a bit.

 

There are rumors that the larger Alpha (+) CTS-V may have a SC'd Gen V.

The normal Alpha ATS-V, is rumored to be getting a very hot, normally aspirated, Gen V smallblock.

Besides that, Chevy knows that the next gen Mustang will pack a V8 or two, and you know how much they like to follow their lead.

I think the next Camaro will be protected for V8 availability.

 

V8 availability isn't an issue. I gaurantee (as if I have any influence, huh?) it will.

But you can also be sure that:

a) you"re going to be paying for it.

b) If Camaro moves to Alpha, we're more likely to see performance stay the same with smaller less powerful V8s than we are seeing the same chassis twisting torque in a lighter car built around 4s and V6s

The V8's going nowhere. As long as the take rate on them are pretty low, they'll continue to be offered.

 

Wouldn't it be reasonable to say that things like sub-frame connectors and braces could be engineered and added to the extremely high HP versions with the standard chassis as a whole will not be built as bulky as Zeta?

Shouldn't make a huge difference to the premium cost a V8 is going to bring anyway.

 

If the Gen V only has two V8s, 5.3L and 6.2L, and the 6.2L is 475-500HP, do you think it will make it into the 6th gen?

 

The fact that it won't engineered to handle 650 ft pounds of torque in convertible form is of no concern to me.

 

This seems so counterintuitive. If the take rate on the V8 is low, you'd think the V8 would NOT be offered. But in the wacky world of CAFE compliance I get what you're saying.

If the 5th Gen is any indication, people still want their V8 pony cars.

 

Wouldn't a Zeta Chevrolet sedan on the Camaro chassis just be a Commodore in Chevy clothing once VE is updated?

AFAIK, Commodore is still VE, which is of course, slightly different from Camaro which is Zeta - but the two will merge into "Zeta for everyone" once the VE receives a structural makeover in 2012 or thereabouts - VF series - Zeta, right? The recent interior/exterior mods for Holden's cars don't qualify as Zeta, but give the cars a bump to VE series II.

This whole family of cars and the Zeta on-again-off-again merry go round is so convoluted, you need a roadmap to keep them straight - it's really no wonder GM went down for the count. I'm pretty sure it really didn't have to be this way.

I think you guys are spot-on too in that so long as GM doesn't really plan any major push of mainstream Zeta cars for here, Holden will be the source, not Oshawa.

 

Then you come across 2 things.

1. Your gonna add weight.

2. Why add the weight, add assembly line complexity, & spend money on engineering when you already have a chassis fully capable of handling that power.... the existing and still relatively new Zeta.

Also, there's the fact that driveline components contribute extensively to weight as well. Larger cooling systems, tougher drivetrain components, larger brakes, etc...

The issue isn't performance. I doubt we'll see any performance downturn. The issue is getting the same performance while using less fuel. That requires not just less weight, but also smaller engines.

That's why the next gen LS V8s are almost certainly coming down in size.

 

By that logic...lets take a SS-v spec Zeta sedan chassis. Nip it, tuck it and make it work as a coupe with camaro like proportions . Then lets give Chevy a sports sedan , and return the sedan converted to coupe chassis back into a sedan ? The G8 GXP was already praised as a more than appropriate sports sedan , so wheres the sense in modding the Camaro version of Zeta into a sports sedan when the sedan version that precluded it is still made .

Am I not understanding this correctly, because to me, developing a sedan off the Camaro version of Zeta seems a bit redundant.

 

You're one of the few who gets it notion, though. Many people make a wrong assumption that seems to be very common even after over 30 years of CAFE standards.

V8s are not in danger as long as they are sold in relatively small numbers and people are willing to pay for them. Currently, we're paying about $10,000 to get a V8 today. That's more than enough to make a killing on an engine that's essentially modified pickup truck motors today.

If they need to sell fewer V8s to meet CAFE, then they jack the price up, and make even more money selling fewer V8s.

The wild card in all this is how high of a take rate can they get on high mileage Fusions, Malibus, and 200s and Avengers. Those are the top selling cars, and what will determin what needs to get cut back (ie: V8 cars) and what needs to be boosted up (ie: Focus, Cruze, etc...)