Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

Background
About every 3-4 years, my business partner shops for a new car. I tag along as the "car guy" to deflect any salesperson BS and to tell her about the various features, options, engines available (I'm basically the person who makes sure she doesn't end up with a CTS with the 2.8 or a 300 with the 2.7 at 3K over sticker).

Me? I usually buy lightly used. I'd rather someone else take the 25K hit for driving my Viper for 2500 miles.

Contenders
She went to look at three cars--CTS, STS, and 300. Considered BMW 5s briefly, but the iDrive thing freaked her out.

Cadillac
We stopped at the Caddy dealer first. Nice, modern dealership, friendly salespeople, not pushy at all, and best of all--no added-cost window stickers. Except on a few "bling" models that clearly had stuff added. How about $72K for a Escalade with big wheels and a ear-bleeding stereo/DVD setup? Thought not.

CTS
I had her drive a CTS 3.6. Sticker about 35K without nav (she didn't want it). Good car. Had plenty of power. I remember thinking, "Holy crap, is this a Cadillac?" It rode and drove very German, at least from the perspective of the back seat. Great fit and finish, even good stitching on the seats. I found myself liking the car more than I expected. With the smokin lease deals they have, I could be convinced to get one of these as a beater.

Bottom line: the car was a bit small for her. Eliminated from next round.

STS
We drove a STS 3.6 first. Sticker about 45K without nav. The keyless ignition thing freaked my business partner out a bit. Much quieter, better-put-together car. Except the person who approved the all-black interior with aluminum accents should be shot and killed without hesitation or remorse. It was somehow even more grim than the CTS' all-black interior. It was like riding in a taxi. It almost eliminated the STS from further consideration, until I pointed out there were lots of attractive taupe/tan/wood combos out there on the lot. The other thing was that the seats, unlike the CTS, did not have exposed stitching. They looked cheap in comparison, which was wierd. But I agree with PacerX--this is a hell of a car, especially with the lease deals.

Chrysler
On to the Chrysler dealer. Pushier salesmen, loud blaring music, banners all over--the typical picture of the terrifying auto dealer. Markups of $8k on all 300c. Markups of $4k on all 300s. I didn't care. If we were going to buy, it would be without the markup. If they wouldn't budge, it would be back to Caddy immediately.

300c
I expected to see glaring examples of how the 300c fit and finish differed from the STS, given the one we drove had a sticker of only $35k. Again, no nav. I was really surprised, though. Chrysler seems to have figured out the magic combination of what makes a bright, inviting interior. Between the analog clock, the better-detailed stereo and dash, and the nice two-tone gray interior, the 300c whomped both the CTS and STS from a "looks attractive" perspective. The fit may have been slightly worse, but I didn't see it. And quality of materials seemed to be above both Caddys, which was a complete shock. The car is also bigger inside than the STS, at least in terms of back-seat legroom. Also a surprise. Car drove great, loads of power and really nice subdued V8 growl. Also very German. I suppose the traditional wallowly American luxobarge is truly dead. My business partner loved the car.

No lease deals on the 300c, so she drove a 300 limited, despite my protests. She liked that one, too. It seemed reasonably peppy, but not as refined as the Caddy V6.

Cadillac II
Back to the Caddy dealer, to see what kind of lease deals they had. My business partner was willing to get an STS if the deal was good enough, even though she liked the 300 better. We looked at other STSes with the attractive taupe/tan interior, but (to my surprise) it was a bit of a let-down after the 300. The dash seemed simple and a bit cheap in comparison.

Bottom Line
You can lease a $46K Caddy for about the same price as a $33K Chrysler, assuming you get a friend to give you a GMID number. She still ended up leasing the Chrysler 300 (not C, ouch) because she liked it better. I pointed out Caddy's 4/50 warranty, better service, better customer satisfaction, etc--didn't work.

My Thoughts
If it was me, I would have paid a few more dollars a month and leased one of the two base V8 STSes they had kicking around. For $48K, if the same lease rates apply as on the V6, that seems to be the deal of the century (on a lease, anyway).

What Can GM Learn?

1. Shoot the idiot who ever thought the all-black interior should go in the STS. It looks really, really cheap.
2. The keyless thing is actually a turn-off for a lot of people, especially those who do not know how far Caddy has come up in the world. My business partner worried about what happened when the battery died, worried about if it broke, etc.
3. The power of inverse sticker shock is EXTREME. Going from $45-60K STSes to $30-36K 300/300Cs that look better inside is a big, big surprise. Yeah, they have better lease deals, but first impression is not good.
4. Figure out where to put the money where it's visible. The 300 has Daimler's cheap push-open gas door, a standard key, no OnStar, worse warranty, but none of these items are visible. The highly detailed dash and quality materials made a big difference with my business partner--and I think that's what made the deal.

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

excellent review
what is the keyless thing on the sts you talk about though?
almost all cars have keyless now

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

As long as you have the keyfob on you, the car will automagically unlock the doors and allow the use of the pushbutton starter. You physically cannot lock the keys in the car.

You don't have to push the button on the keyfob to unlock the doors. The car sense the keyfob is near and automatically unlocks them. It does the same thing for starting - as long as the keyfob is in the car, the pushbutton starter will work.

When you move away from the car, the car senses that also and locks itself automatically.


Centric:

Well, don't know what to tell folks. If she went in and bought a 300 in lieu of an STS at an equivalent lease rate, I guess I can't comprehend that one too easily.

But, different strokes for different folks.

Having driven both (well, a 300C and an STS V8) I just could in no way make the same choice or call the cars even close to equivalent.

BUT, since I know that people have different opinions about stuff, I can see how things like that happen.

Wish her the best of luck with her car, and GM will probably thank her for taking the time to look at a Cadillac!

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

Am I surprised by price gouging in California? Not in the least. It seems that Californians get gouged for just about everything.:)

Now on the right coast, I haven't run into any price gouging at Dodge or Chrysler dealers - at least outside of major metropolitan areas. When I was carshopping last year I could have bought a Magnum RT for $200 over invoice and the same was true of a Chrysler 300C. That was last year, and the inventories of LX-platform cars are far larger this year. Oddly enough, the AWD models seem to be ones that didn't sell very well this winter.:lol:

Maybe it's a California thing.:)

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

Alright who slipped PacerX a valium this morning?! :p

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

And when the batteries in both remotes fail simultaneously (as they did in my Z28) you won't be able to start or even get into your car. You won't even be able to get in the car to hit the OnStar button.

If you can't trust GM's old-fashioned keyless remotes, why do you think that the new keyless start is any more reliable?

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

Ok I'll bite. Uh, didn't you have a key for the Camaro?

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

The car still has a key, goof-ball, and you can still unlock it and get in and put it in the ignition if you want. But...

When was the last time you started a car with a dead battery??? Is that not by definition a condition where the car will not start regardless of whether or not you have a key???

"Well, the battery is dead, but I feel so much better about the whole deal since I can put the key in the ignition and continue to note the fact that the battery is dead since it won't start..."

What the hell?


Oh yeah, and how did you manage to HAVE the keyfob, but LOSE the key on the same ring?????

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

It's Sunday... I'm honoring the day of rest.

I'll start flaming folks again tomorrow, but today is the Lord's day, chock-full of peace and love and good happiness stuff.

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

The keyfob thing hits close in my family...My parents' new Expedition only has one key-hole (in the drivers door), so you literally cannot open the back gate without A: The fob, or B: going in the drivers door and unlocking all the doors. Not a huge deal, but annoying as piss.

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

Red Planet explained how all this worked sometime ago . You are provided a key to get into the trunk , and theres a manual release for the driver door in there . Should the battery die . So actually your in the same boat as a normal car with a dead battery . The fobs can be configured for owner preference just the old GM remotes . Both remotes failing at the same time , while it can happen , is extemely improbable . And the little fob has come along way since the old GM RKE fobs as far as circuity goes .

The salesmen obviously didnt do his job on intoducing the keyless fobs . Not that that woulda made her buy the caddy , not insinuating that . But , she should not have walked away wondering what happens if the battery dies , thats pretty sad on the dealer end . I wonder how many dealers exactly dont take the time to FULLY explain how the new system works . Without knowing all the info , hell , I wouldnt blame her for being a bit put off .

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

thanks pacerx for the explanation
didn't realize it was the same as the new corvette (had forgotten all about it anyways)

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

To be honest, I can see how a car as technologically advanced as an STS could be intimidating. The radio took me quite a while to figure out, and I have a damned engineering degree and have driven just about every GM car made since 1986.

BTW - I happen to love GM's multi-function turn signal switches of old. They were an engineering and ergonomics work of art.

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

See post above.

The car IS complicated and DOES require a learning curve. That's why from the sales end a deft touch is required with new customers. You can give me the keys to just about anything GM makes and I'll have a solid idea of what does what.

Since the STS's whole mission in life is to take buyers away from other makes, the sales people have to be sensitive to customers not as familiar with the cars as enthusiasts are going to be.

Re: Cadillac vs. Chrysler--Real Buyer Experience
 

I like their function too, and always wondered why the car magazines griped about them. Their execution, however, left something to be desired: hard, shiny plastic, and no smoothness at all in their operation. It felt like you were snapping a chicken wing every time you used the turn signals.