Robert_Nashville

Perhaps a better question is...Can we buy American today?

A couple of weeks ago, we (well, I and a few other people) got into a discussion about “buying American”. It was a good discussion but well off the original thread of “What are imports doing about HP?”

I promised to revisit the subject in a separate thread once I had done a little more research.

I have found a great, albeit lengthy policy analysis paper from the Cato Institute which deals with the subject quite well and if you have a few minutes, I highly recommend you read it, especially if you are of the “buy American” at any cost mindset and tend to see “foreign” automobile manufacturers as a threat rather than a benefit.

Here is the link to the article:
"Foreign Manufacturers in the United States: Should They Be Told To Buy American?"

My opinion, for what's it worth, is that a “foreign” car designed in the US, built in the US by US citizens and using mostly US produced parts, is as “American” as most of what is coming out of General Motors and Ford these days, especially when you consider that many GM and Ford products are produced using parts from off-shore suppliers. This is not the world of 35 years ago when such distinctions as “foreign” and “domestic” manufacturers were a lot easier to see and frankly, WE are all better off for it.

I’m as patriotic as anyone and have eight years of active duty in the Navy to show it and I’m as “sensitive” to buying “American” as anyone. However, if I buy an American product I do so when I believe it’s the best; not out of some misplaced patriotism.

Does anyone else have some comments to share?

Good Ph.D

You should buy what gives you the best functionality at the best price, end of story.

If the imports develop a better product, you should buy it, then the domestics will sooner or later, have to improve theirs, and vice versa. You touched on the fact that with the global economy we have cars are foreign and domestic in name only and you will usually be hard pressed to select one company as being totally more beneficial to one country or another.

Jason E

In a word? No, it isn't. I plan to expand more this evening when I can sit down and type a proper post, but this exact subject has aggrevated me for a long, LONG time now. Sure, your Titan was built here. It may even use U.S. built components.

But where does the profit go? Does it stay IN THIS COUNTRY with American corporations, or head for Japan? That's the very short answer to a longer post. If the company's headquarters and country of origin is NOT in the U.S., and U.S. manufacturers (I am talking the car makers, not the parts suppliers), it is not an "American" company and to me is not an "American" car. I understand my Camaro was made in Canada. But GM is as American as any corporation. To me, that's the difference. I cringe when this debate comes up at work and people say "well, my **** was made in the U.S. Its American." Then I ask "so where does the profit go?" I get a blank stare and some pondering for awhile.

Guess my short post ain't so short...but this thread strikes a nerve for me. I am POSITIVE most of you will disagree with me. So be it...but I am more passionate about this issue than I am even about the F body's return, if you can imagine that...

Darth Xed

I pretty much feel the exact same way that you do....

To me, once that $$ leaves the U.S. , it's extremely unlikely it will come back.

92RS shearn

These lines are getting very blurred lately. I think many people will be more loyal to 'imports' than hey are to domestics because more of their cars are being built here and less domestic cars. Because they are being built here, the imports are giving more average americans jobs, while the domestics are leaving and heading for mexico and elsewhere. Even though the profits are coming back to he US, who cares, its just making the rich guys richer, where as the imports are giving the regular guys who really needa job a place to work.

I am not saying this is how I think, but I believe it a valid point of view I should throw out there.

Z28Wilson

The lines have certainly been "blurred" in recent years, but I will still steadfastly buy Big 2 1/2 products for the foreseeable future. Why? Living in the Detroit area, I have friends who work for GM, Ford, and their suppliers. For every one guy Toyota puts on the line to turn a bolt, there's probably 20 Americans being employed by GM in some way....from engineers to managers to line workers....and that ratio probably won't change a whole lot. If the product is engineered there, and the decisions are being made there and profits are sent back there, it ain't American. Period.

falchulk

Motor Trend or Road and Track had a article by the editor on "what is a domestic" this month. He even mentions the Titan and others being designed and built in the USA. I found it interesting and very related to the thread that started this.

falchulk

Where does the profit from GM's cars go? To build a factory in China? To prop up foreign companies by purchasing useless stakes in them? The profit argument has no weight becuase the profit from the Titan goes to feed people in Tennesee who otherwise would live in poverty. It went to pay the construction companies that built the plants. It went to the real estate agent that sold the land. It goes to the utility companies that supply the plant. It goes to all the support companies that sprung up to meet the needs of the "big 3" years ago. I dont know if you think they are shipping boat loads of money to Japan every month or what. There is a reason that these companies put an "of America" on the end of thier names. They may answer to Japan at the end of the fiscal year but they are not propping up the japanese economy by themselves! You are not thinking of the bigger picture.

Darth Xed

Ya, but all that money is investment capital.

The foreign companies would not build all this stuff if they weren't making a profit (and rightly so), otherwise... why do it?

Their game plan will eventually recoup the costs involved in constructing and staffing the project, and then that's when every other penny that they make leaves...

I can honestly see both sides of the story, but it boils down to this: Nissan, Toyota, Honda... they all want to make money as much as GM and Ford. They aren't building these plants here to reward U.S. workers... they are doing it because they make more profit by building these cars and trucks here.

Yes, some U.S. workers make out on this. That is the short term cycle of the money though... in the long term, the money flows out if the U.S.

falchulk

They wont make a profit on this cash outlay for quite some time. Thats why its an investment. Its no diffrent then GM and Fords plants overseas.

Darth Xed

I would agree with that...

Nissan's profit by building in the U.S. will eventually go to Japan.

GM's profit from building in Mexico will eventually go to the U.S.

Neither situation is as ideal as GM building in the U.S. though. Of course, it's hard to compete when you are paying U.S. assembly line workers $24.00/hr plus benifits in the U.S. and the competition pays a fraction of that when they build overseas.

Something's gotta give.

falchulk

24.00/hr? Some of these guys make 70k a year doing nothing. The Janitors make 24/hr. Then the retire and maintian the drain.

And where do you think these profits are going to go once they reach the US or Japan? A big vault?

Darth Xed

Well... ya, you are probably right.

I live in a town where the cost of living is relatively low compared to the rest of the country, so our local GM plant's wages may refect that.

I know a few people who have been there under 5 years that make around $50k/ yr + benifits and work on the line.

I know when I was growing up that all the kids wanted to get in on summer jons to sweep the floors and stuff at the plant because it paid ridiculously high, but you had to have an "in" to get hired...

Into that country's economy...

MissedShift

Salient point.

Chuck!

What happens to my taxes if GM or Ford has to cut the benefits of their retired workers because they're not making enough money?