IREngineer

I know what you mean teal, but who wants a re-engineered, $50k Z28? That type of work and premium is only goingto be seen on one Chevy.

Now if the Caddy could shoulder the extra engineering, you might have a chance. Let's make that #8

teal98

Agreed.

BTW, Charlie would probably pay $50K for such a Z28

I'd probably cheap out and go for the V6 -- mid 13s 1/4s are enough for me.
For V8 jollies, I'd go Classic.

Z284ever

You know what? I was just about to say that I could probably be persuaded to pay that, if it were a truly superb Z/28.

flowmotion

V8s are already quite rare in cars.

What you really want to look at is the truck market -- if pickup buyers start moving to V6s or diesels, that will mean the end of the LS engine program. After that V8s will mainly be used for low-production designs on high-end sport/luxury cars.

teal98

Okay, very quite rare then...

I think everyone will be watching to see how the Ford Ecoboost does.
I still think SCR will scare a lot of people away from diesels. Eventually, it may be accepted, but it will take a while.

If Ecoboost flops and the diesels do as poorly as I predict, I guess that may keep V8s common in pickups a while longer.

Z284ever

The smallblock will continue into the foreseeable future, both in trucks and Corvette. I was also thinking that with the cancellation of the 4.5 diesel, future smallblocks become even more important for trucks. Perhaps a silver lining.

Z284ever

No flames from me. I think that a critical cornerstone with Alpha is to devise a package that can be fun to drive and feel 'premium' even with a standard 4 cylinder.

I think we've touched upon this in a previous thread, but I wonder what the comparison would be - from a vehicle architecture POV - when comparing a 400-425hp/350-400 ftlbs V8 vs TV6? Mass, cost, performance, marketing, packaging, CAFE, the whole shebang.

Let's take this one first.

Wouldn't a 400hp Gen V smallblock be cheaper and easier to package than a 400hp, DOHC, turbocharged, intercooled, V6?

R377

There was a 3.8L version on the boards at one time.

The main thing holding back the aftermarket on the HF V6 is that no one's yet been able to crack the PCM (at least as far as I know). Without being able to do that, major power adders are out of the question.

91_z28_4me

IIRC the PCM is the same one used in the LNF engines and that has also been holding back the aftermarket in those vehicles as well. I think if one gets cracked the other isn't far behind.

IREngineer

Well, it depends on whether or not trucks are going to shoulder the brunt of the development/volume of the V8. The TV6 is done and other platforms can provide added volume.

Pure assembly and purchased parts? The V8 would be about $2-300 cheaper than a twin turbo (my estimate). This is assuming pushrod V8. If Gen V does somehow go DOHC with VVT then I think you can cut that cost advantage in at least half.

Packaging really is a crapshoot. Compare the 335 vs the M3. Both look like a midget couldn't get their hands in there...

FUTURE_OF_GM

Excellent... Seems right on it's original track.

Good, it needs to be a very flexible platform.

Obviously, an F6... But what about the prospect of an Alpha based Impala? (Obviously the platform would have to be engineered to accomodate a variety of sizes)

Someone brought this up earlier (circa mid 2008 when Zeta was dieing) As I understand it, there currently is no replacement for the Impala. Retail sales are diminishing and will continue to as 1) the car ages 2) More people move to small crap and 3) The Malibu becomes the main volume puller at Chevrolet (Since it and the Impala are so close anyway)

So, would the 'volume issue' that plagued (and for good reason IMO) the Zeta Impala be resolved by then allowing for a RWD sedan flagship that sells in smaller (not niche) volume?

That answers my size question (partially)

Absolutely LOVE it!

FUTURE_OF_GM

I don't see why it couldn't (if GM sees fit)

Even Epsilon was, at one point, able to fit the UV8 that was cancelled. If Alpha is the size of Epsilon, why couldn't it fit a V8?

(I'm not talking about weight either, that's an entirely different thing)

I'm in that same boat... Dreamboat, that is!

To pick up where Zeta left off? That's probably where the V8 will come in. If I have to go larger to get a V8, then consider me sold.


+1

Z284ever

I had heard mention of an Alpha Chevy sedan, a long time ago, before the whole meltdown - so who knows. But I think Chevy is getting a large Epsilon sedan around '13, I assumed that to be the Impala replacement.

I remember that PCS mentioned that the plan for Alpha was a sedan for Caddy, a Camaro for Chevy and a fancy convertible for Buick, sometime back.

I think it's safe to say that this evolving story is being written as we speak.

Geoff Chadwick

Not a bad thing. Still plenty big enough. I'm thinking a wagon alpha would then be in the size range of the last generation mazda6 wagon?
I'm more concerned about the width of the interior than the vehicle length. That and vehicle weight. If the 4000lb G8 handles as well as it does, throw a few hundred pounds off and we could end up with something that *really* handles.
I think that is the real point in this thread! With these guys agreeing now, there may be some momentum!
I've talked to guys in GM's Powertrain group that gave the impression the DI 3.6L had a lot more room to grow left in it. If they can get that thing to rev hard and high and make 350hp, that sounds really good to me in a lighter vehicle.
That and wait to see if GMPP to release an "upgraded" tune like the one for the LNF.

A lighter alpha with a 320-350hp V6 bolted to a slick 6spd manual or 6spd auto would be nothing to sneeze at. Lets hope this doesnt get slowed down in the pipeline!

FUTURE_OF_GM

Not to beat a dead horse but, any prospects of Pontiac being signed on to Alpha again?