Thank you! Your pics help prove my point.

Man i hope they fix teh nose on the G-force http://web.camaross.com/bb/frown.gif

Obviously, there's no debating they look similar. I guess it comes down to whether you want it to closely resemble the other cars in the lineup as was the case in the '60s, or if you want it to be more of a head turner, "look at me" car and deviate from your brand identity. Keep in mind, we have yet to see the rear end (or the car in person) and it may yet have the heritage cues most of the doubters are crying for. If it doesn't, I still think this closely follows the formula for what the GTO is all about, so I still give it a thumbs up while hoping more updates or variations would be around the corner in the following years.

I've already said this in another thread by here goes. GM was never going to make a 'daring' GTO from the Monaro it is based on because it is a sensitive, "what if it fails," "import." They NEED the car to look familiar for it to do well because it is basically coming "outa nowhere" for most people. By the time the GTO will be due for a refresh (if they keep it) the new Camaro might be getting a push out the door. Then is the time to be looking for an original design from both the Camaro and the refreshed GTO. Now is the time to be glad you aren't stuck without any V8 RWD muscle for more than 1 year. At least wait to see the car in person and 'feel' its presence before you start calling it a Grand Prix clone.

I don't know about that... Why would you want your new flagship to look dated out of the box?

I don't believe at all they "NEEDED it to look familiar".

Take Catera/CTS as a case-in-point.

The Catera was a "Familiar" looking car. It flopped big time. The CTS is a bold, stunning new visual concept... and it is huge success story for Cadillac and GM.

I think it looks more like a BMW from the side. The front does have the Grand Prix theme. I wonder how this would look if the fog lights were in the middle like on the Trans AM.

all BMW's look the same, All porsche's look the same, all Audi's look the same, and I don't hear any one ever saying anything about these cars.

Lutz said he wanted Pontiac the be the american BMW so it is no suprise they gave it a cleaner more upscale look.

Plus by giving the base GTO this look, it leaves room for GMPD or SLP to make a bad ass Ram Air version.

I just want to go on record as saying that I don't think the new GTO looks like a GP. It resembles a GP in the fascia, but that's where the similarities end. The rest of the car is all different. And the grilles don't appear to be GP grilles. The GP's are more horizontal and recessed. That gray section on the lower nose is not there. The fog lights are different. I think that the similarities were intentional. All the manufacturers do this. They try to make their models look like a family, so that they're easily recognizable as a particular brand. Look how similar the 71-72 GTOs were to the 70-73 Firebirds. No one got upset then.
And I keep hearing about cues. Take a look at my other thread about trying to figure out which old GTO the new one looks like. There you will read about how the new GTO has twin split grilles above the bumper, like the '70 did. It has the arrowhead between the grilles, like the '70. It has a mask in the composite lights that represent separate twin headlights on each side, like the '70. It has the slot below the bumper, like the '70. And it has lights flanking either side of the slot, like the '70 did. Are these not cues?
I said it before and I'll say it again here. I think the problem is that Pontiac raped the GTO themes for the last 2 generations of the GP. So now when people see those themes on a car, they immediately think GP.
And another thing. When the new GP comes out in 2004, it won't look anything like the current GP. Just look at the show car, the GP G-force. The new GTO doesn't look like that car. That car is butt-ugly.
And even JIm Wangers himself (the father of GTO advertising) said that the new GTO "should have a "kissin'-cousin" look to some of the existing Pontiacs...". It's called brand recognition.
Just be happy that this GTO doesn't have those pointy, angular interpretations of Pontiac's look like the Aztec, Vibe, and that God-awful Pirhanna. That look is horrible.

Yep,sure does.2002 grand prix gtp to be exact.
http://www.woodbridgepontiac.com/new_photos/22098.jpg
http://www.commondriver.com/images/c...gran010601.jpg

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1991 Z/28 350TPI red ext. w/gray int.
1973 Z/28(project car)

maybe its blandness and overall lack of character, destinction or grunt were causes for its failure, but when the Catera came out, it didn't look familiar to me at all. only the stupid "zigging duck" campaign and the emblem on the grill told me it was a caddy.

blandness and styling taste are up to interpretation, but destinction, character and grunt are all present in full force in the "to be" GTO.

If you don't like it, go buy a Cobra. http://web.camaross.com/bb/tongue.gif Now there's a real looker. http://web.camaross.com/bb/rolleyes.gif

Huumm. Grand Prix GTO?

If I had the time I'd post a group of pictures of the Tempest/Bonnevile/GTO/& Grand Prix of the mid 60's and demonstrate the exact same point (GTO's design was always whatever Pontiac had at the time).

However I'm starting to get the feeling I'd be spending my time more wisely teaching my microwave to talk. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

I may be missing it but here's my stab.....

What exactly where our expectations when GM announced the GTO was coming back? Did we honestly expect a full redesign of the vehicle going into the hundreds of millions for development and production costs all to import and sell 18k cars a year? I thought it was very clear upon the announcement the car would remain largely unchanged with some Pontiac styling cues added. What could you honestly have done with the car given the limitations and time frame? Would we rather they shook up the design a bit, move the grill up the headlights down and end up with a Aztek front end? Given the budget, time, and the part limitations they had to work within how could you actually modify the front bumper fascia and not disturb the overall styling of the car? How is it how could we really expect anything different? Should GM have said, hold off on importing a freshened Monaro till they could have done an entire build of a homegrown car, that hits production in 2006, 2007 or so? Would we rather be without a RWD coupe at all?

Yes the styling appears conservative. Though we've only seen one artists rendition of what the production car holds. IMHO I think GM has hurt themselves in the past with designs that are just a little too far out there, alienating the mainstream status quo public. Thus eliminating sales from the get go. Though it's a catch 22 when you design something a little conservative the hardcore stylists lash out like they've been abandoned. I think the majority of brash hardcore stylist are few but make a very loud case.

I believe this might be along the same lines as how the public has pushed and pushed the manufactures to produce one of a kind concepts and bring them to production, only to shy away from buying these concepts. Prowler, PTCruiser, Thunderbird.....soon to come SSR. After the initial hoopla from the launch of these vehicles fades away , the manufacturer is stuck with loads of cars, lots of cost it can't recoup, then decides to kill off the line in hopes of more profitable car ventures. Hasn't happened to the Thunderbird yet.... I have a feeling it will... A vast majority of the general public just doesn't spend money on these cars for primary transportation. Thus why I think it would be better to error on the conservative side, than the outlandish side of styling.

If the GTO does well there's more possibilities that can only help our cause for RWD performance.

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Derek M
95 Z28 M6 11.077@132.120
02 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC LB
88 Mustang LX
http://home.attbi.com/~z28sc

It has a certain ring to it... eh? http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

Of course, this would be assuming the whole RWD Grand Prix to begin with... but it would have made a lot of sense.

http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif