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-   -   cc306 equivilent (https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/3rd-gen-l98-engine-tech-20/cc306-equivilent-335513/)

92PurpleHaze 01-25-2005 09:11 AM

cc306 equivilent
 
Hey guys... I have been doing alot of homework lately.. I have made the decision that tossing the L0-3 in my car is more cost effective than modding it.. I did a search and read the intire site that has been posted on TBI L0-3 modding.. Too much money for not enough power.. I also did a search which more/less tells me that the L-98 isnt really much slower than a LT-1.. so after thinking of cost effectiveness of doing a LT-1 swap I decided against it also.. Granted a LT-1 with the same mods as a L-98 will make more power everytime.. but I can get a L-98 for a grand and a LT-1 for closer to 2 grand.. I would rather keep the grand I save on getting a L-98 and use it to make it a little faster.. So unless I am totally wrong here and someone feels the need to give me more information I am almost sure I have made up my mind on an engine.. which leads to my next question.. alot of LT-1 guys are praising the cc306.. has a great sounding idle and from what I have read it is still somewhat streetable.. Other than the dowel pin and computer programming needed, can this cam go directly into a L-98?? can the heads take it?? is it a good choice for the LT-1 but not the L-98?? I guess to make the question a little more open I want to know how to get the kind of power the cc306 offers as well as the sound but in a L-98 engine.. Thanks for any help :bow:

fast 93 z 01-25-2005 10:35 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
You can find full LT1 assemblies for $1000. I would go that route.

Tony89GTA 01-25-2005 10:56 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
I don't think a cc306 would be very good in a L98 engine, go with one of the LPE cams if your sticking with tpi.

92PurpleHaze 01-25-2005 06:04 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
ok.. i MIGHT be able to find a LT-1 somehere for 1k but keep in mind it has to have EVERYTHING.. im putting it in a third gen.. so after you take into consideration the cost of swapping a LT-1 and the price difference in the two engines I just felt the L-98 was the better choice.. granted its slightly slower than the LT-1... but i wont have to deal with the optispark for one, not to mention the swap hassle.. all i was wanting to know is what kinda cam should i put into a L98 to get around the same effect a cc306 has on a LT1.. now the second responce is closer to what I was looking for.. what LPE cam would I go with?? all the LT-1 guys talk about the cc306 and how much power it makes.. surely there is a cam that does the same to the L98..

89-5SPD-RS 01-25-2005 09:56 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
that cam is going to kill a TPI, TPI is mainly setup for torque as it was originally designed for the 305, therefore it runs out of breath somewhere around 4500-5000, that cam is going to want to make power alot higher than that.
i'm not saying TPI cant be made to rev a little higer but it's not my first choice.

lt4 fd 01-25-2005 10:08 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Lets put it this way that cam will generally drop low end torque considerably in an lt1 over the stock cam and since the tpi considerably drops top end in most all of its forms you are most likely going to have a pretty crappy torque curve and maybe only an idle to brag about. Ive never done it though but that would be my guess.

V8Rumble 01-25-2005 11:03 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Hey, instead of saying "I want to run the '306' cam in my car", why don't you sit down & figure out
  • what RPM range you want most of your power at;
  • what rear gears you have;
  • what tranny you have (and if auto, how high you're willing to stall);
  • what kinds of cyl heads you have;
  • what kind of intake you'll be running;
and what kinds of sacrifices you're willing to make if you need to compromise on one or more of the above.

I mean, I love the hell out of a lumpy, "rumpety" ;) idle, but I think it'd get real old real fast compared to the fun of a well-engineered combination... Comp Cams has a service where you can call/fax/e-mail them your specs & what you'd like to get out of your combo & then they suggest one or more cams that'll work with what you have... Since they're (some of) the experts, it can't hurt to ask...

96m6lt1 01-25-2005 11:34 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
hold on here,this cam works very well in l98s this cam is not new it is about 10years old now and has found its way in many l98s for instance,my friends 92 z28 it has a 355''11.1 comp.ported tfs wedge heads,1.5 rockers,superram,24lb inj.58mm tb,crappy edelpoop headers,3''flomaster cat-bac,3500 stall,700r4,4.10s,26x10s and an asm chip and has no problems runnin 11.40s this car has been unchanged for 9 years,the mph is 116,i personally have used this cam as well with the same numbers,i also like the comp cams 286hr10 its 230 @.050,560*and 110 lobe sep. this cam likes gear more than 4.10s w/automatic.............go for it bro been there and it works,you will need these type componets to make your car fly........

AutoRoc 01-26-2005 12:04 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Doing your homework is good but unless you have actual experience with all of the parts you're looking at, it's better to look at building or purchasing an entire package or combination. Tossing a large/aggressive cam like that at an L98 engine is foolish on many levels. One being that the stock springs can't handle the lift, you'd need new hardware etc.

V8Rumble posted a lot of key questions that need to be answered first and foremost before speccing out parts is even a concern.

If EFI is what you want along with reliability, a decent price, etc swapping a RamJet 350 crate engine is one of the simplest ideas. A. It's about 5 grand. B. It's EFI. C. It has a stand alone MPFI On the intake, comes with a harness, etc. Basically you'll need the proper 45psi capeable fuel pump/regulator and hook up 12 volts and you pretty much have a running car that idles like stock and make 350hp/400tq. I consider that a very "happy" number myself but it's still a proven stockish combo. That cam is so mild that I can't see it making 350hp, even with the vortec heads. Modifcations like adding a larger camshaft, maybe milling the heads/intake, adding compression, and tuning the computer can be done once you're up and running. Goodluck!

92PurpleHaze 01-26-2005 06:40 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Ok.. Im really truly dont want to sound "mean" or whatever but you guys totally took my post the wrong direction..I never said and never would say "I want to run the 306 cam in my car" which is a quote from V8Rumble.. I asked which cam can give me the effects that the 306 has on the Lt-1 but in a L98 instead.. Let me try and word this again in a different way.. ok.. the LT-1 loves the cc306.. track numbers prove it.. as well as the people that drive the cars with cc306's in them.. I however will be getting a L-98 to put in my car.. reason is due to simplisity.. i know its not as good of an engine, i know it doesnt breath up high.. but the swap is 231896451 times easier on a L-98.. basically bolt in, plug in, and go.. the LT-1 will require more work period.. not to mention alot more money.. id have to get a/c lines made, power steering lines, clearance the crossmember for the a/c, as well as many other things.. so the L-98 is the way im going.. the car already has a 255 pump anyway so thats already covered, literally bolt in, plug in, and go is how simple the L-98 will be for me.. so now thats covered, thats the engine im going with.... now back to the cam.. I use the cc306 as an example more less.. granted I was curious if it would work well in the L98 or not, I already guessed it wouldnt be the best choice but I thought I would ask and see anyway.. the way I really wanted to question to come across is more like this.... The Lt1 loves the cc306.. so what "equivelent" is there for the L98.. that doesnt mean to use the cc306 or one exactly like it.. that means, which cam is out there I can get for my stock L98 that it will love.. just some more facts about the car is that its a manual.. it will have a posi rear and probably 3:42 gears at the same time I swap the engine.. it will have shorty headers and 3" exhaust as well as a burnt prom, which is a must anyway with a cam.. I have done my homework ALOT on the swap, the pro's, the con's and everything in between.. what I am currently doing my homework on is what type of cam to get for it.. over time im sure ill be bolting up alot of other stuff because as you all know the need for speed never ends.. so yeah it might get heads, it might even get a converted LT1 intake.. its hard to tell where ill take it.. but for now I am just wondering what cam does the L98 love that has a nice lumpy idle like the cc306 and performs excelently with the stock engine.. since the cc306 likes stock LT1's im sure there is a cam that likes stock L98's.. oh and by the way, i do race at the track from time to time but the majority of the cars use it to go out on saturday night and pound on the other local cars, which it cant do with the L03 it has, hense the swap :D .. so, cam ideas?? dyno numbers?? track times on stock L98 w/cam??? i love you guys for trying but you just misunderstood my question.. :( hopefully now i can get some good info on this

onefastgta 01-26-2005 10:40 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Just use the 306 cam in the l98 and be happy. If you want lope, any of the comp cams on a 112 or 114 lsa in the 218-236 intake duration range will give you lope and will be tuneable. Just re-pin your tbi harness to tpi.

92PurpleHaze 01-27-2005 04:09 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
yes its true that I do want a little lope, but if the lope means its going to kill performance then forget it..I would rather have the car run good instead of sound lopey.. in all honesty I couldnt tell if you were being serious or not when you said " just run the 306 and be happy".. i cant tell if you just said it to get me to shut up or if you said it because its acually a good cam to use..?? now im just confused what to do.. I guess the only way to figure out what cam I want to run in the new engine will be to check out the TPI board once TGO gets back up, look at all the signatures that have 350 tpi with an upgraded cam.. contact the person and ask them about how the car runs.. I just find it hard to beleive that noone reading this post can tell me a good cam for what im trying to accomplish.. good performance and a little lope in a more/less stock L98.. oh well

89-5SPD-RS 01-27-2005 06:56 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Hey, theres somebody on the NW Indiana SW Chicago Burbs Board running the LT4 Hotcam and a set of extremely ported Vortecs that could of had his car in the twelves, that car would put the stomp on lightly modded LS1's on the highway his name is 3.8TransAm you could PM him when TGO comes back.
The car sounds badass at idle lopes a bunch, and then it'll get up and go whenever you want it to

96m6lt1 01-27-2005 11:43 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
92 z28,fully loaded,9" w/4.10s
e.t streets 26x10s
3500 stall/killer 700r4
355 11:1,stock crank,resized rods,forged speed pros
twisted wedge heads,202,160,1.5 crane rockers
edelpoop headers 1-5/8(yuk!)
flomaster amer.thunder cat-back
superram,24lb.inj.,58mm tb
holley 255 lph.
crane afpr.
ariz.spd&marine (custom prom)
pulleys,cut air boxes,k&ns
6 pt. roll bar
art morrisson a-arm kit
houston raceway park: 11.40 @ 116mph.w/cc306

lt4 fd 01-27-2005 01:57 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Jesus he asked for a CAM that would work well with a STOCK l98 not a built motor that would work well with a cc306. If you want a cam that would work well with that l98 you may not get much lope which you said was ok. I would leave the big cams alone if its going to stay stock for a while and look at some of the lingenfelter cams or the smaller tpis cams or some smaller comp cams XE grings like the cc502 or a hotcam. Really untill you get a different intake your l98 is going to "like" a more low-midrange powered cam so get a small or maybe medium sized cam for it so you will still have great low midrange characteristics and maybe get a tad of lope and a tad more topend. The lt1 intake has such short runners a large cam work well with it since thats practically the design of the intake, the l98 would certainly do better stock with a cam much smaller.

FruityOne 01-27-2005 03:27 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 

Hey, theres somebody on the NW Indiana SW Chicago Burbs Board running the LT4 Hotcam and a set of extremely ported Vortecs that could of had his car in the twelves, that car would put the stomp on lightly modded LS1's on the highway his name is 3.8TransAm you could PM him when TGO comes back.
The car sounds badass at idle lopes a bunch, and then it'll get up and go whenever you want it to
Andrew, Jeremy dropped the LT4 hot-cam for his next build up. He's going with a 383, and he went with less duration. He's sticking with the ported plenum/SLP runners/ported vortecs, but his cam is actually closer to what I'm running. I think its a tad larger, but not by much.

Yeah, the LT4 setup moved really good, but it wasn't really the best cam even for a modified TPI setup.

Stock cam? Thirdgen.org had a bunch of cams listed but the server quit. I'd stay within 210-215* duration @ .050" on the intake and a LSA of 112-114. I'd also stay with a split duration cam with stock heads, the exhaust port doesn't flow all that well. My setup is pretty mild. Ported everything I can. 211/219 LPE cam. AS&M SS runners, port matched base, headers full exhaust.

92purplehaze, comp cams has a 210/220 cam that would probably work decently well with your setup after a tune. It would start right up and idle without problem. So driving it without a tune wouldn't be a major issue, though I'd watch out for gas prices as your mileage won't be the best without a tune.

92PurpleHaze 01-27-2005 06:29 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Hey.. fruityone & lt4fd.. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!.. those are the kinda answers im wanting.. now i have a good idea of what kinda cam the l98 will LIKE.. not what i like.. what the engine will like.. THANK YOU... I am most definatly going to start doing homework now on prices and availability on the type of cams you suggested.. :bow:

lt4 fd 01-27-2005 07:30 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Hotcam will be the least expensive for sure, cc502 is about the same size with a tad less exhaust duration but will require a little bit stronger valvetrain and yield slightly better numbers across the board. Those are probably the biggest you should go, and lingenfelter sells the size cams that fruityone was suggesting, which a little smaller, as well as tpis I belive.

FruityOne 01-27-2005 10:26 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Most of the time you can find the Lingenfelter cams on ebay, actually being sold as overstock through Lingenfelter themselves for about $250. They are really easy to work with. Though don't let them talk to you about their head porting packages, or their valvetrain setups. Both will cost you more than an arm and a leg.

They wanted me to send my heads in for the best gain. Well, at $2,200 thats ALOT of money for CnC porting on stock heads!! I'd rather buy AFR's or a similar aftermarket brand and have light work done on them. Much better results that way. The valvetrain components while top notch, were also top notch prices, about $600 in springs, locks, the like? I don't think so!

The LT4 valve train suits me just fine. Works great with this cam.

92PurpleHaze 01-28-2005 05:05 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
looked at comp cams site.. just wondering if this is the 502 cam you suggested?? "GM LT1 & LT4 350 Xtreme Energy 269HR-12 Cam".. says its works well with a LT1 with upgraded computer and exhaust.. I also made the call and talked to one of the guys there.. his suggestion was this.. part number 08-501-8 212 218 duration 488 495 lift 112degree.. any input on his idea?? from the search I did this cam they suggested is bigger than a hot cam, thats of course if the numbers I found for the hotcam are right.. is this too much cam?? everyone has a different opinion and I guess im just going to have to go with something that someone has in their car that they KNOW works good.. anymore help fellas?

96m6lt1 01-28-2005 05:38 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
i don't think that is too much cam at all,with the duration @.050 it will have a small but noticable rumble at idle it should pull nicely,what are your intensions for the car?
hot cam w/1.6 rockers 218/228 .525/.525 112*
slp cam w/1.5 rockers 226/228 .495/510 112*
lpe cam w/1.5 rockers 219 .560 112*
these examples of cams have a moderate idle(small rumble)run hard and don't require a bunch of other mods to run good,custom chips are advised though for best running quality,all of these cams have proved to run in the 12s with no more than 3.42 gears,2600 stall,headers etc.

92PurpleHaze 01-28-2005 05:59 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
Intentions for the car kinda go like this but then again since there are no parts in my hand yet they could change at any moment.. First throw the stock L98 in it with a cam.. Then be very happy since its going to stomp a mud hole in the LO-3 thats in it now :).. After its in and as money allows I will go with a set of iron heads from a local engine rebuilder that will be a little massaged, like a little porting and possible polish.. Probably end up putting a modified LT1 intake on it as well.. I still need to do a search and find out what all is involved in that other than the distributor hole. The car will have headers when the engine goes in, headman shorties due to my 2" lowering springs, and a nice 3" exhuast, no cat, no smog.. 3:23 or 3:42 lsd.. some SFC, PR, and either nitto or BFG drag radials... I dont want the fastest car in my town.. just want to keep up with all the other fast ones like the LT1's and possibly even the LS1's.. but I am not even going to try and guess how fast the car will be because everyone gets different results from their mods

96m6lt1 01-28-2005 08:34 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
WELL you seem to know what you want,the man you need next will be john millican you will find him here www.lt1intake.com check out www.stealthram.com as well......

92PurpleHaze 01-29-2005 05:35 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
thank you for the link.. that makes my search for that alot easier.. :) I think since eventually I will put a nicer set of heads on the car as well as a better intake, I will go ahead and just get the hotcam and if its just a little too much cam for the engine now ill just live with it until the other mods are on.. now the last thing to do is cover the tuning.. because lord knows it will need it.. :)

FruityOne 01-29-2005 01:52 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
I already have a converted LT1 intake sitting on the side. Almost ready to go on the car. :D

92PurpleHaze 01-29-2005 08:37 PM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
well guys I guess that ends this thread.. I cant thank you enough for all the help.. I will just go with the L98, LT4 cam kit, headers, and custom chip of course... then I will step up the heads a bit.. and then I will convert to either LT1 or if I can find a good deal on a HSR I may go that route.. Either way I am sure it will be a pretty good running car.. at least a WHOLE lot faster than what I have now... :cool: hey, who knows, I might even throw a 75 shot of happy gas in there just for those races that are really close and I wanna win.. ;)

DevilsAddvocate 02-05-2005 03:26 AM

Re: cc306 equivilent
 
I have a zz4 cam i can sell you for 50 bux plus shipping

306 is WAY too big for a stock l98

This cam has the follow

208/221 duration at .050
.474/.510 lift with 1.5s
.505/.544 lift with 1.6s

112 LSA

lot better for your set up lemme know.


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