IZ28

Oops, I meant 4th Gen! Argh, I'll edit it. Thanks!

guionM

The reason you see way more 69 Z/28s then SS' is the same reason why you see way more 396 Chevelles today than regular 350s or Hemi Chargers of the era (though Hemis were barely selling by 1970) than 383s or 400s: they were rare or high intrest enough (meaning valuab le enough) to be worth restoring.

There were 20,302 Z/28s made for the 1969 model year. 36,309 SS.

Early 70s 3rd gen SS Camaros outsold Z28 2 to one to 3 to one depending on the year. It's even worse pre 69.

The Camaro Registry

2010_5thgen

I think your talking about 2nd gen SS... show me a 3rd gen ss.

99SilverSS

The truly rare car today is a base model Camaro/Mustang/Chevy II or Challenger that hasn't been turned into a Z/28 or SS, 454 Chevelle or Hemi Mopar. The real ones are worth saving but not many saved the base model non-collectable variants.

Going to a car show today you'd think every Chevelle in 1970 was a 454 and every '69 Camaro was a Z/28 or SS 396 and every '67 Vette was a 427...

95zsean

Well.............. It's been a long time sense ive been on this site, and the draw of the new Z/28 brought me back! I agree with what Scott said! But i dont think i will be spending much time on here as it seems that thing just get worse and worse! That said I'll go look at the New Z/28 and if it what I'm looking for(as none of the other 5th gens are) I will plunk down my hard earned money and enjoy it.

ImortalZ28

The new camaro Z/28 is bad ***. I thought they had forgotten all about the Z/28. Ya its not a Z28 but as a camaro lover. Its still a camaro and a bad *** one at that.

IZ28

It's a Z28, just an over the top one with it's mission closer to the ones with the slash, (like the idea behind the original 1LEs) except more radical. The first 3 years of Camaro history doesn't speak for all of it. In the article above, they're trying to (IMO stupidly) separate a car that most Camaro owners have never owned, the 1st Gen Z/28, from every other Z28 70-02, which many have owned. I understand that there were difficult times and some misdirection with it over the years, but they're just using 1st Gen history publicly to cash in. (while making great cars in the process) The 14 Camaro has elements of the 2nd and 3rd Gen now, but they still only talk about the 1sts. Save for a HP focused dyno, a correctly optioned late 80s IROC-Z, 91-92 Z28, and almost any 4th Gen Z28 if tested would all categorically destroy a 1st Gen Z/28 in every aspect of performance while being automatic, fully loaded, A/C on, and without the 1LE option. You'd also be more comfortable and feel safer while doing it. But, you'll never hear that reality mentioned. At least not yet. Should they ever release cars that are based more after the other Gens, you can bet that you will all of a sudden.

Fbodfather

Guy -- thank you for your thoughts -- we agree. Especially where this Z/28 is not for everyone.

IZ28 - go look at that emblem. The intent of the Z being larger than the 2 and the 8 was to include the / as part of the nameplate. I know this because I talked with the guys that were around then. (and yes, they were just as passionate if not more than we are today.....)

Wouldn't it be GREAT to make the new Z/28 more mainstream and affordable?

It would be - -just as it would be for me to be able to do the things I was able to do (many times) as a younger man!














Anywhoo.

That was the 20th Century.

We're in the 21st Century.

CAFE is 54.5 by 2023.

CAFE is necessarily going to price V-8 performance into the stratosphere. It's called the Law of Supply and Demand.

Now - I've seen people talking about the price.......some say 40K.

Are they kidding? Take a 1LE and then add the cost of an LS7 -- (go look that one up)

Now - on top of that - what's the cost to engineer the A/C OUT of the car? Then there are all the funds spent in wind-tunnel.....and on the track for inordinate amounts of time. (this car is going to simply stun people on the track.....trust me.....) And then consider the development of all the parts that are unique..............

It's going to be expensive.


As to "Revisionist?" Nope - 'fraid not. We have the files to prove what I've been talking about.

Meanwhile - the Beast is Back.

Time to rejoice.

IZ28

Scott,

It really doesn't matter what you say the intent possibly was, the slash IS NOT there lol. No one needs a magnifying glass to see that there isn't even room for a slash. It left in 70. It was Z28 on the car. It was advertised as Z28, not Z/28 in ads. You can't say that it left in 77 when that's just not the case. You cannot say "Well, they meant to put it, but just didn't." It's not what happened historically on the car regardless of any file lol. The only thing that left in 77 was the red Z and smaller white 28. The more familiar Z28 emblem ironically appeared in 74 on models that still used the 70 emblem also. Same thing with saying the standard IROC-Z moved Z28 to "number 2" 88-90 when it was already an upgraded Z28 to begin with. Everyone knew that the Z meant IROC-Z28. It was advertised many times in reviews and in ads by GM as IROC-Z28. The 85-87s had Z28 emblems. The ordering RPO became Z28 instead of B4Z. ALL OF THEM had a Z28 emblem (in red, besides the 90) on the interior, etc., etc. Any talk of these things otherwise only fools those that don't know or care about the models or the history. Not a true enthusiast. I'm not really accusing you, people do forget these things sometimes.

The point is, it doesn't matter whether it's Z28 or Z/28, it's the intent of the car that matters and most people don't know the difference either way. Lets not separate the Z28 crowd for 1st Gen biased marketing. Z28 has been many things and if you want to be absolutely technical, the new Z/28 is much more radical than the actual 1st Gen street Z/28s were and many a "Z28" would tear up a 1st Gen Z/28, without needing to be decontented.

I understand why the car is expensive and I understand that it needed alot of work to reduce weight. I just hope in the next Gen we can maybe have a Z28 that doesn't have to go to such extremes/costs to achieve that since maybe it will be lighter. I also hope it doesn't become a super low production car that no one ever sees.....

I have rejoiced, believe me. Seeing the car revealed was almost an emotional experience. The first person online I contacted was Charlie lol. The engineers practically brought our sort of Z28 vision to reality with this car. I think even beyond what many of us fought years for, in various different ways. Whether that's a good thing or not overall, we'll see. Regardless, I wish them much success with it!

99SilverSS

It's nice to have SS, 1LE, ZL1 and Z/28 all reestablished in the Camaro lineup.

I wouldn't mind seeing for Gen 6 the Z/28 be more like the 1LE is now. Focused but affordable road/track performance. But then actually have 1LE as a option on the Z/28 that cuts weight, radio and back seat delete, racing inspired seats, carbon ceramic brakes, adjustable suspension etc... To take it to the next level for and far more track focused.

There seems to be a lot of people that want a Z/28 but either can't afford the one in 2014 or may not want one as so track focused. A Z/28 would allow the vast majority or customers to have the casual more street focused performance at a more reasonable price but then have the opportunity to get a Z/28 1LE that's far more extreme in both performance and cost.

IZ28

Great post Silver! That would be a fantastic way to handle it in the next Gen. The new one sets the bar and cost so high that I'm concerned that most who want one just won't be able to do so. The only thing is that the Z28 really shouldn't share the same exact engine with the SS as the 1LE now does.

68 RS/SS Ragtop

I posted the following before I saw this thread. I'm glad I didn't miss the styling cues of the taillights. Thanks for confirming Scott.

"It all seems fine to me. Fbod father has been saying for years, if/when they bring the badge back, don't expect creature comforts. It's true to it's roots (except it doesn't have a 5.0liter engine) Original Z's were track cars.

I finally got to see the rear taillights. Seems to me to be a homogenous form of 69 and 70- red, middle white back up, red, slight 70ish corner wrap."


The issue now seems to be there aren't enough people around that fell in love with the Z/28 when they were track cars. More people now seem to remember 4thGen Z/28's

They(4thGens) were great vehicles but were a little far off from the cars roots- A/C, Stereo, auto trans, creature comforts, 5.7ltr engines. Now with the return of the badge I think they(majority of people) were expecting more of a 4thGen vs a 1stGen. Some realize what the car is. That being said, with ALL the options available for any camaro now, no one could not get the car they want option wise. The problem seems to be the car they want doesn't wear the badge they want.

As far as which car model would be king, the SS was designed for a different purpose. the only reason Z/28 wound up being the RPO code is because Z27 was the SS option and Z/28 was thoiught of afterwards so Camaro could compete in the 5.0liter SCCA TRANS AM races. Seems to be the same still only I'm not up on where the car fits into racing today.

bossco

It doesn't bother me that the Z/28 is a very track focused car, it reminds me of Ford's Cobra R effort, that said, just give me a LS7 powered Camaro - said LS7 Camaro doesn't even need to have a dry sump oiling system (although the 7k redline would still be nice).

I know the LS7 is a pricey rascal, but I wonder given the existence of the Z/28 and the work done to fit then engine of the car, what would be the true cost of having a LS7 powered 1LE Camaro be a sort of 9/10th Z/28

IZ28

I've wondered and mentioned the same thing myself. I went to Chevys site and built a 1SS (since a Z28 wouldn't be a fully decked 2SS now) with 1LE and the dual-mode performance exhaust. The price was $36,930 with a total MSRP of $37,930. The cost of an LS7 from GMPartsDirect is $14,000. A Z28 needs Recaros or something today so add at least $1,000 more maybe and the total cost is $52,930.

So with weight removal, special brakes, suspension pieces, wheels/tires, and other various costs you can see how the price can get to around $60,000 or more for the new Z28. It would have been nice to see a more affordable and broader ranged Z28 like this 1LE I "made" and I hope GM will consider something like this for the future. I think it would have made a great Z28 spec-wise. Appearance-wise it could use the new Z28 spoilers/splitters and such, (I don't care for the SS spoiler, flat black hood, and rims on the 1LE myself, the overall look is blah except for the splitter IMO) but this Gen unfortunately needs the weight removal and Chevy decided to build a serious overachiever instead.

For the 6th Gen, I like the idea of taking away the SS/1LE and having Z28 and Z28/1LE once again, but done how Silver suggested. So, the V8 cars would be: SS-great performing cruiser with all luxuries and maybe a G92-like performance option, Z28-serious street machine with some options, Z28/1LE-decontented focused track car, and ZL1 somewhere in there. Let it deal with over 650HP GT500s somehow while the Z28s dominate in handling and on road courses. That setup would stay true to Camaro history also.

Slappy3243

Shouldn't you subtract the cost of the LS3 first before adding the cost of the LS7? Should bring it down several thousand dollars.