My God... the most disturbing thing about this...
07-09-2008, 11:58 AM
#61
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3. I don't give blanket condemnations to GM's engineering staff because I know that they have to compromise weight and cost targets, while at the same time they are under TREMENDOUS pressure to keep weight down as low as possible while meeting strength and durability mandates.
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07-09-2008, 12:19 PM
#62
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The "Z28" was supposedly planned to be in year 2 anyway. I expect that GM is taking a lot of things into account for picking the launch date, including general economic outlook and oil futures.
Also Nissan has had some great advertising for the Z. Obviously its not exactly the same kind of car, but if ad agency is shooting for that sort of attitude, that would be great.
Also Nissan has had some great advertising for the Z. Obviously its not exactly the same kind of car, but if ad agency is shooting for that sort of attitude, that would be great.
07-09-2008, 12:21 PM
#63
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For the record, i'm glad they hired an ad agency that thinks they can compare the car favorably to a near-iconic japaense sport coupe. Just aiming for say mustang and challenger would be a huge mistake, there are only so many "i only buy american sporty car" buyers out there, and when i say so many, i mean very, very few.
I think the ad agency was very short-sighted in neglecting the heritage of the Camaro. The car very obviously takes styling cues from the 1st gen Camaro, and they ignored that aspect completely.
07-09-2008, 01:04 PM
#64
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Here...
Lemme help you...
Corvette is an icon.
Camaro is an icon.
Mustang is an icon.
The 350Z is an underpowered, overweight turd of a pseudo-performance car made for posing instead of performing.
Now, I got no beef with V6 Camaro buyers - there needs to be a solid V6 option that's a world-class car in it's own right. The 350Z MIGHT be a good comparison with that car... I doubt it, but it might...
Hell, V6 Camaro buyers are just as welcome in the family of Camaro folks as any V8 owner in my book - and treated with just as much camraderie... not everyone can afford a fire-breathing V8, or the insurance that goes with it, or wants a car that has serious implications associated with stamping the "GO" pedal flat.
Any other Camaro needs to chew up and spit out 350Z's like nobody's business.
Put it this way:
350Z owners who also wish to buy a Camaro V8 should not park them in the same garage for fear of the Camaro beating the 350Z to death and then eating it while they aren't looking.
Last edited by PacerX; 07-09-2008 at 01:10 PM.
07-09-2008, 01:12 PM
#65
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For the record, i'm glad they hired an ad agency that thinks they can compare the car favorably to a near-iconic japaense sport coupe. Just aiming for say mustang and challenger would be a huge mistake, there are only so many "i only buy american sporty car" buyers out there, and when i say so many, i mean very, very few.
That was my impression as well, to the public at large simply comparing the Camaro to Mustang (cant say anything about Challenger at this point) is the automotive equivalent to "lay down with dogs, get up with fleas".
07-09-2008, 01:37 PM
#66
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Does it matter that GT500 dusted a Lotus Elise in a track comparo? (Lotus fans dont get your panties in a twist, the Lotus obviously was the better handler, but it was a similar situation to an article that pitted the Mustang GT to the Integra Type-R some years ago).
Does it matter that the Mustang is pretty competitive in GAR?
Does it matter that the Shelby GT is the darling of F/Stock Autocross?
Nope, not a bit, perception is more important than reality. The Mustang is an american car and by dent is seen as slow, ill-handling, and cheap compared to the 350Z (nevermind the GT did do better than the 350Z in a comparo some years ago).
07-09-2008, 02:03 PM
#67
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I wouldn't call the 350Z "iconic". The import crowd might drool over them (and even then, it has stiff competition from a few other import cars), but the 350Z doesn't have the same prestige that the Corvette does, or even the Mustang.
I think the ad agency was very short-sighted in neglecting the heritage of the Camaro. The car very obviously takes styling cues from the 1st gen Camaro, and they ignored that aspect completely.
I think the ad agency was very short-sighted in neglecting the heritage of the Camaro. The car very obviously takes styling cues from the 1st gen Camaro, and they ignored that aspect completely.
As far as camaro heritage, sorry, but i don't think people will care if it has styling cues of a first gen, they'll either think it looks cool or not based on it's own merits.
FYI, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Z-car
The Nissan Z cars also currently holds the record of best selling sports car of all time with around 1,685,000 in five generations.
I love how a "OMG the Z28 is dead" thread quickly turned into a bashing of the Nissan/Datsun Z-car. 
07-09-2008, 03:29 PM
#70
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07-09-2008, 03:53 PM
#71
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Yeah, and how about the 1.5 million corvettes in 55 years. Corvettes suck. booo corvette.
And eleventy billion ford f150 pick up trucks makes it the best sports car ever since there were lightning models with 2 seats.
And eleventy billion ford f150 pick up trucks makes it the best sports car ever since there were lightning models with 2 seats.
07-09-2008, 03:56 PM
#72
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are you trying to say that mustangs and camaro aren't sports cars?
07-09-2008, 04:38 PM
#74
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You know, a good old pony cars vs. sports cars debate could be refreshing compared to "ss vs. z28" and "is it too heavy"
so to kick it off...
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sports%20car :
- a small, high-powered automobile with long, low lines, usually seating two persons.
- n. An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.
- a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car
- A sports car is a term used to describe a class of automobile. The exact definition varies, [1] but generally it is used to refer to a low to ground, light weight vehicle with a powerful engine. Most vehicles referred to as sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for more precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics
so to kick it off...
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sports%20car :
- a small, high-powered automobile with long, low lines, usually seating two persons.
- n. An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.
- a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car
- A sports car is a term used to describe a class of automobile. The exact definition varies, [1] but generally it is used to refer to a low to ground, light weight vehicle with a powerful engine. Most vehicles referred to as sports cars are rear-wheel drive, have two seats, two doors, and are designed for more precise handling, acceleration, and aesthetics
Sorry.....