Competitive at making rental cars. Giving the entire ponycar, police and taxi market to Ford was a mistake. Currently GM is also seen as unable to compete with foreign makers in terms of build quality and design. GM has been on top for so long they forgot to try. Companies like Hyundai are trying really hard to take down companies like GM. The problem is GM keeps letting them win.

 

ToneC you do have a point but GM let the car die. They in turn handed the whole market to Ford. If it feels like GM is trying to play catch up by having a retro styled ponycar, it is because they are. We all understand that CEOs and Board of Directors all shoot for the big picture. Now the decisions they make may not be right, despite the intentions. When I bought my Z28 in 1995 GM was #1. If the big plan was to loose money and drop out of being the #1 US car seller then their big picture plan worked. However, I doubt GM wanted that just like Coke getting rid of Coke...only to realize their mistake and bring it back...just like GM. I am saying GM made a mistake by letting the Camaro die, and this mistake was further exacerbated by not planning further generation Camaros. What we are left with is a 17 year time frame between the beginning of one generation to the next. And that is a very, very long time.

 

There is no doubt about this.. I don't think anybody intends to bad mouth the GM people that are on the Camaro project. I'm sure they're enthusiasts in one way or another, and want everything that the majority on this board want as far as the new car. The problem is GM's overall leadership and strategy - it blows. Just look at the company has performed in the past number of years.. it would be hard for them to perform any worse without the entire corporation collapsing. They have consistently been a step behind, and the competition has been raping them - deservedly. Their stock is less than 50% of what it was just 4 years ago. Look at all the plants they have closed down. The new Malibu seems to be making a lot of noise in the market as of late, lets hope this carries over.

 

Ok, so they make good rental cars? Then what would you consider a police or taxi to be? They're nothing more than a glorified rental car.

GM made an intelligent move by axing the police and taxi sales and cutting back on their rental sales.

Police and taxi sales are nothing more than high volume, low profit sales that end up costing more in warranty repairs than privately purchased vehicles (I have no proof for this, but I would assume based on the abuse they go through, this would be common sense?)

So please, tell me, since Ford is making such a killing with their police and taxi sales, why isn't Toyota jumping in on this awesome sales endeavor?

GM cars not competitive? New CTS and Malibu seem to be highly praised in the media, as is many of Saturns new products. Wait until all of GM's line-up is refreshed under Lutz....

Who lost their second best selling sales slot to Toyota????

 

Ford is by no means an example of how to do business. But the point is if you go to rent a car you will be sitting in a stripped down Malibu that is impressive only in how crappy it is. Everyone I know that travels for business is aware only of the poor quality of GM and Ford. My comment was intended to show that most people regard GM and Ford cars as rental/fleet cars. Not something you would go out and buy. That being said almost all cop cars of Ford and Mustang is the only car of its class. GM simply gave up two huge markets there. The point is to sell cars.

I have seen a lot of new Malibus at the dealer lot but not one on the street. I have seen plenty of Sonatas, Accords and Camrys on the road and in peoples driveways. The fact is GM and Ford relied too heavily on truck and SUV sales. With gas prices and ever growing competition GM and Ford are looking at serious problems.

Letting the Camaro die was a mistake and reaction to making a new Camaro was and continues to be a slow process. The Japanese are still more efficient at development and production. The Camaro is a niche market with strong customer support. To let that languish like GM did till its ultimate death is just plain bad business. As the global oil market continues to fluctuate, and environmental concerns form new regulations, the 5th Gen may be too little too late.

 

You have a good point as well. Maybe the overall leadership needs to be reviewd , J/K.

Look,

We all know they haven't kept up the QA/QC but they sure have kept up the prices. The bottom line is that they were producing crap cars and charging good money for them. If you're blind to that fact, then you have either been under a rock or you are a true loyalist. I know there are many GM loyal people. God bless them. Their whole family drives nothing but GM. I work with people like this. Being a loyalist to the point where a company is producing junk and you still buy it is kind of like being an abused child. At first, you were treated with love and respect and that changed to you taking daily beatings for years despite the fact that you were loving and loyal to your family. Yet, you still hang around, hoping things will be better, that your keepers will love you again one day. You know, it's sort of like being a Cincinatti Bengals fan.

We could discuss this until the cows came home but it wouldn't do any good. I just hope lessons learned are reviewed often and this car is a home run in every way.

I want SO bad to buy an American car again and to be proud to say that I own one. As of late, many many Americans aren't jumping for joy when they buy a new American vehicle. It's time to turn this company around.

 

most people are replying with full essays so i didn't read much of the thread, but I probably wouldn't be ready to buy one much sooner than they're due out anyway. I did have to buy my '96 to hold me over a little though.

If it were coming out this fall as an '09 I would be happy (jan '09 as a '10 is a little redicuous and '09 brings thoughts of the iconic '69 to me). If it takes a little longer to bring out and they're are few bugs it will be worth it, but if it comes out with all sorts of problems then I'll have a problem.

 

You guys have to remember that in 2000 the car was suppose to be dead there was never suppose to be a camaro coming back. So how can they release a concept on a car that was deamed dead?
There wasnt even a smuge of hope of the car coming back until 04 & even then there wasnt really a light at the end of the tunnel it was just a flicker. it wasnt until the end of 05 that we started to see the true lights & as scott said it wasnt until August that we really had any hope of the camaro coming back. Yes when they released the concept it was a nice car & they were most likely hoping the car would send a message.


before that was said & done the car was suppose to be dead in 98 guys like scott kept it going until 02.

 

No, you're not the only one. Knowing all the reasons why...it's too long!

Some people just won't accept that resentments run deep!

 

I think the time delay is building a LOT of hype! Like waiting to open the Christmas presents when you were 10 y/o... The anticipation is GREAT!!!

I think GM is just trying to do this right so it won't flop, which I'm sure it won't!

 

Trying to sift through your heavily opinion laced thoughts to find some real factual information makes the cliché needle in the haystack seem almost plausible. I understand your rant and how you and your friends at home and at work seem like a good group for USA Today/Gallup polling info on GM cars and quality but I hate to say they are not. Also your attempt for scientific quantitative measurements consists only of the foreign cars seen on the roads you travel and the amount of new Malibu’s on a random Chevy dealer lot as opposed to one seen on the road, again by your own two eyes. Contrary to what you may think your little “world” and all those who populate it are a very small spec on the grand map of the real world and no not the one on MTV.

My hometown, a large Midwestern city once known as the arsenal of democracy, has plenty of GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles on the streets and in driveways. I’ve even seen Malibu’s on the streets before being on dealer lots. I now live in a strong foreign car wonderland with wide lanes of traffic and more taco varieties than one should ever eat. But even here on the point of entry for the Asian brands I see a slight resurgence of domestic cars and brands. Some Camry and Accord buyers are in Chrysler 300’s or Chargers. Some MX5 and Miata drivers now in Solstice and Sky roadsters and even a few Prius pilots have turned to the Escape Hybrid or Tahoe. Shocking I know!

Point is someplace between our little “worlds” seen true by our own eyes lies reality. So feel free to add some info to support your points at any time. I’d start with JD Power, Consumer Reports, Polk Automotive data and research and maybe next time the line between reality and opinion won’t be quite so blurred, at least in your eyes that is.

 

what makes you think we'll ever be finished? (where we say -- OK -- that's it..........that's the top dog! We're done!) -- Everyone thought the Z06 was the ultimate Corvette -- we proved that wrong this week at NAIAS,didn't we?????

 

you are wrong.

The 4thgen cars were the highest quality F cars built. I have the warranty data to prove it.

I can assure you that we DON'T look at you (the community) as suckers.

 

You ARE, indeed, a wise young man!

Very well put.

 

99SilverSS

Thanks for the input, I know its my opinion. BTW public opinion matters and GM must improve its public perception. I also feel GM is making better cars, but it takes a lot of rights to sway the masses. However, the point of this thread is your "opinion" on Camaro development time. I simply state that the wait between 1993 and 2010 is too long. You can argue till the cows come home about your world and mine, but waiting 17 years for a new generation Camaro is a long time, period.