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Go Back   CamaroZ28.Com Message Board > 1967-2002 F-Body Technical Discussion > 1967-2002 Specific Technical Discussion > Suspension, Chassis, and Brakes
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:51 AM   #1
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Seriously need Help to get my Brakes to work, itching to drive my 383

So i have been posting a few threads without any luck on getting my brakes to work.

First I thought it could have been the fact that I didnt bleed my rear brakes, bled all of my brakes many times, still having soft pedal without any brakes at all. just goes straight to the floor, very soft.

I replaced the master cylinder and brake booster today since it sounded like some air getting sucked in somewhere around that area but I still have no brakes at all.

I bled the master, I am going to rebleed the brakes again, but I need to figure out why I still don't have any brakes.

I can't stop at all, no exaggeration, there is something seriously wrong with my brakes.

car idles fine, sounds good, can take off and go fast I am sure (not dumb enough to try without brakes). but I just can't stop.

I have been testing it out in my garage trying to move a few feet and then hit the brakes but there are no brakes.

I upgraded to the ls1 brakes and calipers. I bled all lines, replaced master cylinder and brake booster. Even when the 383 was first built my brakes were really crappy, i thought it was a vacuum issue but I did have some braking power at that point, now I have zero. I rebuild the 383 myself over the past several months and changed everything out that I needed, and no brakes.

I checked all my vacuum lines going into the intake manifold and they all seem good, nothing seems to be messed up there and car idles fine.

I am wondering if there is a kink somewhere in the lines or maybe a busted line and if that would cause my problem?

I really really need some help, I am getting pissed that I have had a running car for almost a week and I can't drive it anywhere since I have no brakes.

looking for suggestions on what to try to troubleshoot. could there be something wrong with the module that all of the brake lines connect into?

I did remove my ABS module when I painted the engine bay, then it sat for about a year before I got the 383 together and back in the car.
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96 Z28 6 spd 383 Trickflow LT1 lloyd ported heads, lloyd ported lt4 intake, lloyd custom cam, MadZ28 tune, ARP main studs, 4.10 gears, msd 6al, 37 lb fuel injectors, racetronix pump and harness, k member, strano springs, koni shocks/struts, 58mm tb, lt4 km, forged pistons, rods, crank, milodon oil pan, pacesetter LT's, 1 high flow cat, flowmaster muffler

Last edited by zbomb5610; 07-12-2010 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 07-12-2010, 07:56 AM   #2
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Did you bleed the ABS module? I see you posting you bled the brakes and MC, but I see no mention of the ABS. Also, did you bleed from the Passenger rear, then Drivers Rear, then Passenger Front, then Drivers Front?
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:21 AM   #3
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Did you bleed the ABS module? I see you posting you bled the brakes and MC, but I see no mention of the ABS. Also, did you bleed from the Passenger rear, then Drivers Rear, then Passenger Front, then Drivers Front?
Good suggestion on the ABS. It may also need to be reset (a Tech2 or similar would be required). I've never had to mess with the ABS, but have always used a vacuum tool (like a Mityvac) to bleed the brakes. Works easily.

Last edited by shoebox; 07-12-2010 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:43 AM   #4
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I don't think it's a vacuum problem -- if it were, you'd still have unassisted brakes (like you do when the car is off). It's gotta be air in the system.
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:01 PM   #5
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Did you bleed the ABS module? I see you posting you bled the brakes and MC, but I see no mention of the ABS. Also, did you bleed from the Passenger rear, then Drivers Rear, then Passenger Front, then Drivers Front?
not sure how to go about bleeding the abs, not really sure how to use the bleeder valves I guess.

when I bleed the brakes I usually have someone press on the brakes a few times, then hold the pedal down as I crack the brake line open and let fluid come out, then I close it up and have the person let go of the brake pedal.

I did start from the passenger rear, driver rear, passenger side, driver side and did each several times.

I did have the ABS unit disconnected and out of the car for a year, so it could need to be bled, just wondering the best way to do it.

how would I go about doing a tech2 bleed? does it need to go to a shop?

also would it be worth investing in a mityvac? aren't they around $150?

trying to figure out what I should buy and try out since I get off work in the morning.

thanks
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Old 07-12-2010, 04:43 PM   #6
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If your abs light is off and there aren't any trouble codes you can bleed the brakes without a Tech2. Start the car with your foot off the brake. The abs light should come on for a few seconds and then go off. Let the car run for at least 10 seconds. Turn the car off and repeat. The abs light should go off and stay off or you will need the Tech2 according to the manual. You need to do this any time you bleed the brakes to move the pistons in the modulator to the correct position for bleeding.

Bleed the abs modulator first. There are two bleeder screws. Start with the rear one and just bleed them the same as the brakes. Then bleed the brakes moving from the farthest from the master to the closest. Then bleed the modulator again. If you didn't bench bleed the master before you installed it you need to do that first or you probably won't ever get all the air out. Also make sure the master never runs dry.

A Mityvac doesn't cost that much and makes the bleeding faster, and you can do it alone, but having someone press on the brake works fine.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:00 PM   #7
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the car does have the check engine light on, but that was from some problems I had when I did my 383 the first time I am pretty sure. I do need to scan the code though and have them cleared. No flashing light, just constant.

I will do what you suggested and see if I can get the brakes to work tomorrow. Hopefully I figure something out.

Should the brake bleeding be done with the car on? Or do you just turn it on and wait for the light to go off and turn the car off and then bleed the brakes?

I only bled them with the car off.
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Old 07-13-2010, 07:04 AM   #8
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Check engine light doesn't matter, just the ABS light.

And you just need to turn the ignition on/off a few times to "center" the pistons in the ABS module. If you're ABS light is off then you're fine. Bleed per the instructions above bleeding the ABS module with the bleeder screws first; then the wheel calipers.

The method you were doing works fine. The Vacuum systems work better if it's just 1 person doing it instead of 2.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:46 AM   #9
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As stated above only the abs light matters. The reason for starting the car is to make sure the abs is operating normally. Supposedly you can't bleed the brakes properly if it isn't. I don't know if that is true or not, but that is what the manual says. Bleed the brakes with the car off.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:02 PM   #10
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Check engine light doesn't matter, just the ABS light.

And you just need to turn the ignition on/off a few times to "center" the pistons in the ABS module. If you're ABS light is off then you're fine. Bleed per the instructions above bleeding the ABS module with the bleeder screws first; then the wheel calipers.

The method you were doing works fine. The Vacuum systems work better if it's just 1 person doing it instead of 2.
thanks for the help guys.

So today I redid the bench bleeding of the master cylinder to make sure I did it right, then I went ahead and bled the 2 abs bleeder screws which had some air come out, not a lot but some for sure.

then I went around to the rear calipers and I bled it this time, the thing is I was unbolting the brake line when I was bleeding initially rather than using the bleeder screws, this time I used the bleeder screws with some rubber hose and submerged the other end of the hose in brake fluid and I had a lot of air come out of each of the rear two calipers.

I tried to do the front passenger side but I stripped the bleeder screw, I just upgraded to ls1 front calipers and they were pretty badly rusted so they stripped very easy, now I am stuck without having the front two calipers bled.

the brake pedal still doesn't feel much firmer though, but I guess I need to bleed those front calipers first before worrying about that.

just need to figure out the best way to get those stripped bleeder screws off now. I tried vice grips with no luck, tried one of those stripped bolt sockets but the bleeder part is too deep for it to fit on good enough.

can I bleed the front brakes without doing it through the bleeder screw?
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:27 PM   #11
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You have to use the bleeder screw, its at the high point of the caliper. Use a clear tube on the screw so you can see the air bubbles. I use aquarium tubing from Walmart. Since you have installed LS1 brakes make sure the bleeder screws are at the top of the caliper. If they aren't you have the calipers on the wrong side. I can't help with the stripped screw, but if you can't get it out, rebuilt calipers aren't that expensive.
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Old 07-13-2010, 10:40 PM   #12
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that caliper bleeding screw wouldn't come out, tested the driver side and it opens up fine, I took the caliper into a shop, hoping they can weld something on it and get it off, going to call them tomorrow around noon, will keep everyone updated.

worst case scenario is I have to buy another caliper and paint it red again which would suck.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:13 PM   #13
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All this time you were not using the bleeders? That's kind of a DOH! moment, isn't it? It's just perplexing that you would not use them.
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:24 PM   #14
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All this time you were not using the bleeders? That's kind of a DOH! moment, isn't it? It's just perplexing that you would not use them.
yeah, sorry man. I mean I dropped the motor, file fitted my own piston rings, pretty much paid attention to every little detail putting this 383 together, degreeing the cam, doing my research very in depth to every little thing, and then I get to the brakes and I don't have any experience with bleeding brakes, even I can't figure out how I could have not figured out the correct way to do it.

well I guess everyone has their doh moments, and this was definitely mine.

hopefully it fixes the problem. like i said, I will keep everyone up to date if bleeding the fronts takes care of it or not. everything else was bled and a decent amount of air came out.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:52 AM   #15
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Yea, by bleeding with the hoses you weren't actually bleeding anything, you were just letting the brake fluid out; but still leaving a HUGE airpocket in the calipers.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:52 AM
 
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