SC vs. N/A

RkyMtHigh · 01-22-2003, 01:56 PM

I am interested in a very streetable car that produces 400RWHP running on pump gas but have little experience with this stuff. I have a 97 LT1 with 35,000 miles on it and an M6 tranny. I am trying to decide which would be the most cost effective way to get there. I have been seriously considering a 8 psi w/ intercooler/aftercooler ATI or Vortech super charger on my stock motor as the most cost effective way to get there but reading the posts it appears that it is only a matter of time before you end up in the rebuild club. My mods to date are 4:10's in the rearend and long tube holly headers with the appropriate fixins. I have a $5000 budget to try and reach my objective and have been wondering if there is N/A option like a stroker that might be cheaper in the long run. Reliability is a major factor. If I have to plan a rebuild in the beginning would not it be better to build the right motor rather than trying a bolt on? Seeking the advice of the many who have already paid the price.

IDOXLR8 · 01-22-2003, 02:07 PM

If you have a $5000 budget then I would recommend going with a nice head and cam package. Blowers are great and make huge power but unless you have the money to rebuild your stock shortblock then I would not go the blower route. I think 400 rwhp should not be a problem with your budget.

BPS · 01-22-2003, 02:13 PM

here you go - the perfect solution
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showt...threadid=71712

Jim S. '95 Z28 · 01-22-2003, 03:18 PM

A stroker motor isn't necessary to hit your target power goals n/a. A good heads/cam set-up will get you there.

RkyMtHigh · 01-22-2003, 05:09 PM

Thanks for the input! The heads and cam option sounds like the better choice. What are some tried and true packages that are complete systems designed to function together?

EDS Z28 · 01-22-2003, 10:10 PM

Jim Pace sells the LT4 kit. It comes with LT4 heads, matching LT4 intake manifold (powder coated red), LT4 hotcam kit, and some gaskets. It is around 2 grand and should make around 430 horse if it is tuned correctly.

TimbrSS · 01-22-2003, 10:59 PM

My car made 330 rwhp/rwtq with the LT4 kit mentioned above. Probably would have dynoed 10-15 more HP after I did some tuning and straightened things out.

RkyMtHigh · 01-23-2003, 09:37 AM

ED Z28 what mods did you make to the internals to run 12# boost and how much money did you throw at it to get you there? I am still very interested in the SC option because like everyone else I want to go as fast possible on my budget. If I can build a power plant that produces 530rwhp and is dependable and within my budget GREAT. If I have to stretch my budget a bit to do this right thats ok. But as everyone probably knows these things have a way of taking on a life of their own, so I am trying to set some realistic goals on the long term total costs. If it is cheaper to do some mods up front before I blow the thing up, I am all ears. If I have to tear whole motor apart to get there wouldn't it better to just build a stroker than a SC.

L.A. Z · 01-23-2003, 05:52 PM

If I were you, I would go heads/cam. I have the AFR LT4 heads, LT4 intake and hotcam, and with 190,000miles and a stock program, the car made over 360rw. A better cam, fresher motor, and good tune is a sure fire 400. You would be underbudget with that setup. Put the remaining cash in a warm spot and let it grow into enough money to build a forged motor, and then put a blower on.
Get a BBK TB similar to mine that whistles and you have yourself a 400rwhp car that sounds supercharged.

EDS Z28 · 01-23-2003, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RkyMtHigh
ED Z28 what mods did you make to the internals to run 12# boost and how much money did you throw at it to get you there? I am still very interested in the SC option because like everyone else I want to go as fast possible on my budget. If I can build a power plant that produces 530rwhp and is dependable and within my budget GREAT. If I have to stretch my budget a bit to do this right thats ok. But as everyone probably knows these things have a way of taking on a life of their own, so I am trying to set some realistic goals on the long term total costs. If it is cheaper to do some mods up front before I blow the thing up, I am all ears. If I have to tear whole motor apart to get there wouldn't it better to just build a stroker than a SC.

Well, it is not just money invested in the motor, you must consider other things like an adequate fuel system and exhaust. Your fuel and exhaust system must be up to par if you are going to make this much power. I designed and built mine to handle anything thrown at it. You just can't afford to run lean at these power levels.
My bottom end consist of trw pistons, h beam rods, and a stock crank w/arp bolts. Hopefully the 2 bolt crank will hold up, it has so far big time.
Actually, it is a 12 pound pulley, but I am only seeing 10 pounds of boost with that pulley. The addition of a solid intake pipe may pick up the 2 extra pounds to give the advertised 12 pounds of boost. With another 2 pounds and some tuning I could be around 550+ rwhp. On my last dyno I was running rich.
My advice to you and a lot of other guys is look at the overall cost. It is actually way above 5 grand. Probably 15 grand if you go all out on the bottom end and fuel system. Here is my breakdown:
-built 355 short block, 2 bolt main................................$1500
-cylinder heads............................................. ............... $1500
-supercharger kit w/intercooler....................................$40 00
-fuel system............................................ .....................$1000
-exhaust system............................................ ..............$2000
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL $10,000

You can save some money by porting your own cylinder heads, but you have to know what your doing. All the other stuff you should not skimp on IMHO. I have easily spent this much money on my own setup, I lost count some time ago.

engineermike · 01-23-2003, 11:02 PM

I say do the heads and cam. I've been thinking about the following combination for reliability, emissions, idle quality, torque, and power:

383 with cast crank, 5.7 rods/ARP bolts, and 18 cc dish pistons
Either LT-4 heads ported to 280 cfm or AFR 210's
Comp Extreme Hydraulic roller 214/224 112 LCA
Port matched LT-4 intake
1.6 roller rockers
1 3/4 headers
Bolt on's

This combination should be good for around 410 - 430 rwhp and gobs of torque with a stock-style idle and emissions legal to boot.

Mike

RkyMtHigh · 01-24-2003, 09:36 AM

Thanks for all the input! The N/A is sounding like the ticket. Engineermike you show an T-trim in your signature, are you thinking about giving that up for a 383 or putting it under the blower?

engineermike · 01-24-2003, 06:02 PM

The 383 idea is for my friend's '95 Z28, which only has bolt-on's currently.

I had a 383 with 11/1 compression and AFR 210's in my last car, which was an '89 Firebird. This car, with a Crane Hydraulic roller cam (234/242 at .050), a Victor Jr. and a carb. ran 11.09 at 122.7 mph all motor. This combination made 435 rwhp.

I figured that you can build an LT-1 with essentially the same combination, but with a milder cam, a better exhaust, and a 6 speed to put about the same rwhp and mph, but with better idle quality.

Believe me, I'd like to put a 383 in my Z28, but I already had a forged 3.50 stroke crank and 25 cc dished Wiseco pistons sitting in the shop and ready for my LT-1, so the 383 conversion would cost me a bunch of money.

Mike

Highlander · 01-26-2003, 10:50 PM

If you have enough $ I would go with the SC setup and a 383 for 400rwhp.. I think it would be a lot streetable than a NA since you can almost have both of both worllds.. you would need 6psi so intercooling is not necessary, thus avoiding a lot of installation stuff... anyways either way is nice way

RkyMtHigh · 01-28-2003, 11:10 AM

I am still thinking SC because I know once I have reached a certain level of power there is a better than average chance that I will want more. The dyno numbers I have seen from the basic head and cam package do not easily reach 400rwhp. The riddle that I must answer is which way to go first without limiting myself to much for a future mod which I may want when the money is available. If I go heads and cam for power to start with, it probably will not be what I would what in a blower motor. If I put on the SC with only 6# then put the heads, cam, and pistons in the future I risk blowing the thing up before I have the money to do it right. The question is how to best build on the motor a step at a time while increasing my power to achieve a well built SC'ed LT1?