Its Offical Hummer is Sold....

[jg95z28]

Keep in mind Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co Ltd is a manufacturing company with ambitions of becoming an automaker. The current plan is to continue manufacturing Hummers at the Shreveport LA plant through 2010; which then they could use what they learn in order to build up production facilities up in western China. Assuming the rumored price of $100M plus additional "commitments", that's not a large amount to buy into the auto industry.

[Northwest94Z]

Originally Posted by T/A-Bob

If the Hummer represents anything "American," it is the Ugly American. We are better off without it.

Wow choosing to own or having owned a Hummer makes me an "Ugly" American.

I really don't know where to begin with a comment like that. Normally I'd tell you to get the hell out of my country but alas I'm sure I'd be wasting my time.

You must be one of those people that I would wave hello to after throwing ME the bird. How American of you!!

Every time I climbed into my H2 and drove down the road or trail it brought a smile to my face just as hopping into the Z does for me now. To a bleeding heart liberal the Hummer brand may represent the "Ugly" American but to those of us that grew up in the land of the free, because of the brave we see the Hummer brand as an expression of freedom. An opportunity to drive whatever suits us because in this country we still have that choice. It hasn't been legislated away yet.

If Hummer represents the "Ugly" American I can only assume based on the typical criticisms of the Hummer that so to do most of the cars built in the 40's, 50's, 60's since they consumed copious amounts of fuel and took up more than their perceived share of real estate on the road or in parking lots. What do you call people that to this day, 50 years later, continue to insist on preserving those same behemoths and drive them on weekends or during the Summer months. They must be "Super Ugly" Americans for keeping that piece of American history and culture alive.

Shame on us.

[SNEAKY NEIL]

Originally Posted by JasonD

They are buying bad business. My point is, consider the reason it was for sale in the first place. There isn't a waiting list to buy a Hummer these days. No one is buying the product. If it was being sold because it was a successful business, that would be one thing. They are buying from us what is not working.

My problem is that this is just a small example of a much larger problem. The symbolism of this alone is disturbing and don't think sybolism is meaningless in this case.

You know there is a mojor problem when our own treasury secretary has to rush over to China to assure them that our country is not a bad investment and eat humble pie at every turn. The topper being that when he said to an audience that China's United States investment is secure, there was huge laughter. Good times.

[Z28x]

Originally Posted by Northwest94Z

Wow choosing to own or having owned a Hummer makes me an "Ugly" American.

I really don't know where to begin with a comment like that. Normally I'd tell you to get the hell out of my country but alas I'm sure I'd be wasting my time.

Every time I climbed into my H2 and drove down the road or trail it brought a smile to my face just as hopping into the Z does for me now. To a bleeding heart liberal the Hummer brand may represent the "Ugly" American but to those of us that grew up in the land of the free, because of the brave we see the Hummer brand as an expression of freedom. An opportunity to drive whatever suits us because in this country we still have that choice. It hasn't been legislated away yet.

If Hummer represents the "Ugly" American I can only assume based on the typical criticisms of the Hummer that so to do most of the cars built in the 40's, 50's, 60's since they consumed copious amounts of fuel and took up more than their perceived share of real estate on the road or in parking lots. What do you call people that to this day, 50 years later, continue to insist on preserving those same behemoths and drive them on weekends or during the Summer months. They must be "Super Ugly" Americans for keeping that piece of American history and culture alive.

Shame on us.

I think it more accurately represents the fat over consuming American. Jeep doesn't seem to have that image problem.

Video = http://videos.streetfire.net/video/F...kit_634290.htm






Sports cars or anything flashy or of excess has had this problem for ages.

[indieaz]

Originally Posted by Z28x

I think it more accurately represents the fat over consuming American. Jeep doesn't seem to have that image problem.

Exactly...people who *really* want an offroad vehicle get a wrangler. People who want to show off their status, or have an affinity for ugly styling buy Hummers. Think rappers and middle management.

[formula79]

What killed Hummer is they never made a Wrangler competitor. I would have axed the H2, and kept the Wrangler competitor and H3.

[T/A-Bob]

Originally Posted by Northwest94Z

Wow choosing to own or having owned a Hummer makes me an "Ugly" American.

I really don't know where to begin with a comment like that. Normally I'd tell you to get the hell out of my country but alas I'm sure I'd be wasting my time.

You must be one of those people that I would wave hello to after throwing ME the bird. How American of you!!...

You totally misunderstood what I was trying to say and I'm sorry you took it personally. I was talking about the vehicles themselves and not owners. Ironically, I find your anger and your "I'm more American than you" positions representative of a group that I was not trying to include you in.

I feel that cars like the F-bods represent exactly what you meant previously (in a good way) as far as bold, powerful, could only be made in America, etc. Now more than ever, when I drive my T/A I feel part of that. In that regard, I think the loss of the Firebird and of Pontiac itself is a much sadder reflection on the state of this country and its auto industry, than is the loss of the Hummer. Just my opinion.

[notgetleft]

Originally Posted by Northwest94Z

Wow choosing to own or having owned a Hummer makes me an "Ugly" American.

Not necessarily, though if you never got yours dirty then i'd say you were driving it just for style and ego purposes. Which is certainly your right, but also exactly why the brand is so polarizing and is now chinese.

I find any analogy to sports/sporty/muiscle cars invalid. The H1 and even H2 are giant vehicles that get terrible gas milage but are great offroad vehicles. In order to take advantage of their capabilities, you have to get them dirty. If you can live wit the trade off of gas milage and lack of parking availability so you can take your whole family across the high desert wasteland, good for you.

OTOH, sports cars can be used to their fullest even while on the road. Sure, some of their capabilities might be technically illegal, but that's besides the point. I drive a fast coupe instead of a econobox because sometimes that extra power will get you into traffic easier. Or a quick blast into 4th gear just feels good. A lesser car simply can not do what a sports/sporty/muiscle can.

[Z28Wilson]

Originally Posted by JasonD

They are buying bad business.

I think we all agree that Hummer is bad business right now. I believe that the current economy and upcoming CAFE/emissions standards have a lot of responsibility for that. I think it will be interesting to see if Hummer can flourish in China, provided that it maintains some acceptable level of quality. The Chinese standard of living is increasing (largely off our backs) and when you throw in the fact that the Chicom gov't doesn't much care how fuel efficient the vehicles are......

[Northwest94Z]

Originally Posted by Z28x

I think it more accurately represents the fat over consuming American. Jeep doesn't seem to have that image problem.

Video = http://videos.streetfire.net/video/F...kit_634290.htm






Sports cars or anything flashy or of excess has had this problem for ages.

Anyone that parks like that is an idiot I don't care what you drive and I've seen that done by people in everything from Altima's to Tacoma's. It's not Hummer specific.

People that have a problem with sports cars as a segment or anything flashy suffer from envy more often than not imo.

Originally Posted by indieaz

Exactly...people who *really* want an offroad vehicle get a wrangler. People who want to show off their status, or have an affinity for ugly styling buy Hummers. Think rappers and middle management.

Agreed about the Wrangler and "*really*" wanting to go offroading. However those people that would like a (as in a single vehicle) that can go places most SUV's can't and take road trips in comfort the next day can opt for something like a Hummer that covers a wider scale than a Wrangler.

Look at it this way. On one end of the spectrum you have pure offroading. On the opposite end you have luxury/ comfort. The Wrangler occupies primarily the offroading end of the spectrum and the Hummer occupies a larger piece in the middle of the scale delving into the offroad portion more so than the average SUV and well into the luxury end of the scale.

In my case it's not about status while for some obviously it is. My H2 looked stock because it was stock. Didn't need the big wheels and all additional chrome. It was about a truck that could do many different things well. As far as ugly styling it's purely subjective. You want ugly look at a Prius or an Aztek. Ask a child what they think about a Hummer before they have a chane to be negatively influenced by a small minded adult and they're face will usually light up.

Originally Posted by T/A-Bob

You totally misunderstood what I was trying to say and I'm sorry you took it personally. I was talking about the vehicles themselves and not owners. Ironically, I find your anger and your "I'm more American than you" positions representative of a group that I was not trying to include you in.

I feel that cars like the F-bods represent exactly what you meant previously (in a good way) as far as bold, powerful, could only be made in America, etc. Now more than ever, when I drive my T/A I feel part of that. In that regard, I think the loss of the Firebird and of Pontiac itself is a much sadder reflection on the state of this country and its auto industry, than is the loss of the Hummer. Just my opinion.

I'll go so far as to say that I made assumptions in my response to your post that may very well be unfounded. I'm not interested in a pissing contest with anyone.

I still find it hard to differentiate the vehicle from the owner regarding "Ugly" Americans since they go hand in hand. Hummers may represent the "Ugly" American to the rest of the world for their excess but if it weren't for their owners their wouldn't be a Hummer.

Ultimately imo the rest of the world is ignorant when it comes to most things automotive related and what they think they know and what they think certain vehicles represent isn't worth a whole lot.

[OutsiderIROC-Z]

Originally Posted by Z28x

[flowmotion]

About that cartoon, that's pretty much how I feel, but at the same time when you have a really successfully marketed brand with a strong image, you have to take the good with the bad. Hummer has been one of GM's few huge marketing successes. (And they even poked fun at the 'compensation' issue in one of their commercials.)

The big problem with Hummer isn't the image so much, but the fact it's trapped in a declining segment. GM has cancelled their nextgen truck platforms, so Hummer would just be stuck with models which are growing increasingly stale. There would be a strong temptation for GM to water it down and introduce crossover models like Jeep did.

They built the world's most obnoxious SUV, and now there's nowhere to go but down.

[Z28x]

Originally Posted by flowmotion

About that cartoon, that's pretty much how I feel, but at the same time when you have a really successfully marketed brand with a strong image, you have to take the good with the bad. Hummer has been one of GM's few huge marketing successes. (And they even poked fun at the 'compensation' issue in one of their commercials.)

The big problem with Hummer isn't the image so much, but the fact it's trapped in a declining segment. GM has cancelled their nextgen truck platforms, so Hummer would just be stuck with models which are growing increasingly stale. There would be a strong temptation for GM to water it down and introduce crossover models like Jeep did.

They built the world's most obnoxious SUV, and now there's nowhere to go but down.

I think if gas stayed under $2 through the 00's Hummer would still be a huge hit. Hummer must have had more toys made after it than any brand. H2 is like a Tonka truck. H2 and H4 are in Transformers 2

[R377]

If AM General had've been smart when they sold GM the marketing rights to "Hummer", they would have included a clause giving them first right of refusal in the event GM tries to sell it, or perhaps even just 'leased' GM the name, so as to prevent this kind of thing. I can't imagine AM General is terribly happy about this turn of events.

[Z28x]

Originally Posted by R377

If AM General had've been smart when they sold GM the marketing rights to "Hummer", they would have included a clause giving them first right of refusal in the event GM tries to sell it, or perhaps even just 'leased' GM the name, so as to prevent this kind of thing. I can't imagine AM General is terribly happy about this turn of events.

They still have Humvee.