Don't mod 08+ Duramax Trucks
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,647
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Don't mod 08+ Duramax Trucks
This came straight from a friend who is a GM technician at a dealership in my town.
Word of warning, For those into trucks, Or have friends who are into trucks. The warranty claims for people adding on Bullydog, Edge, ect style programmers and causing damage to engine's and transmissions has been retardedly excessive and with the Owners taking the aftermarket units out to bring the vehicle into the D/Ship for warranty work to make it look stock, trying to prove in the past that the customer had modified the vehicle programing has been the issue. According to our Tech Assistance you give them the major assembly fault (IE specific trans fault or engine fault) and they can tell you exactly what programmer setup the customer uses as they now know which style of programmer causes common related engine or trans breakage. Its that bad.
GM has worked a way around this programmer issue now.
You can now view with the Scan tool and its part of all any major assembly fault inspection to have to scan the History Programing calibrations and search for any 'non GM" calibration id numbers. You can view all the Current and History calibration ID numbers that have been used with the PCM/ECM unit.
We just denied warranty on a customers 08 Duramax that has a blown head gasket. 2000$ parts, 40+ hours of labour due to there is a non GM calibration ID# in the history. Dumbfounded with the news he replied " I was told by the shop that installed the programer that GM would never know I had one in there"
The problem will lie now trying to find a shop that will not scan for this. As with all Warranty work GM audits and mulls over all Warranty claims trying to find a loop hole to not pay the dealership for the repairs if all i's are not dotted and not all t's crossed. IF they want to be dicks, they could deny claims that shops have performed on these vehicles if they did not scan for history calibration faults. Like I say, they know what problems are caused by Controllers. So with the d/ship not wanting to loose their $ for parts and labour spent already and have the claim kicked back and have to be eaten by themselfs. I'm sure most D/ships will be scanning history programming calibrations.
Buyer beware, Just a heads up/word of warning.
GM has worked a way around this programmer issue now.
You can now view with the Scan tool and its part of all any major assembly fault inspection to have to scan the History Programing calibrations and search for any 'non GM" calibration id numbers. You can view all the Current and History calibration ID numbers that have been used with the PCM/ECM unit.
We just denied warranty on a customers 08 Duramax that has a blown head gasket. 2000$ parts, 40+ hours of labour due to there is a non GM calibration ID# in the history. Dumbfounded with the news he replied " I was told by the shop that installed the programer that GM would never know I had one in there"
The problem will lie now trying to find a shop that will not scan for this. As with all Warranty work GM audits and mulls over all Warranty claims trying to find a loop hole to not pay the dealership for the repairs if all i's are not dotted and not all t's crossed. IF they want to be dicks, they could deny claims that shops have performed on these vehicles if they did not scan for history calibration faults. Like I say, they know what problems are caused by Controllers. So with the d/ship not wanting to loose their $ for parts and labour spent already and have the claim kicked back and have to be eaten by themselfs. I'm sure most D/ships will be scanning history programming calibrations.
Buyer beware, Just a heads up/word of warning.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,308
From: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
If these aftermarket programmers are causing so many problems in the first place 
(that people are taking the trucks to the dealership to get fixed ...)
... I've gotta wonder, just how "good" are these programmers anyways, and are the "gains" REALLY worth it?!
(that people are taking the trucks to the dealership to get fixed ...)... I've gotta wonder, just how "good" are these programmers anyways, and are the "gains" REALLY worth it?!
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 439
From: Northern VA
I can't really feel sorry for people wanting to do whatever the hell they please with their vehicles, and then expecting the company to pick up the cost of repairs. Be a man, have some integrity, suck it up, and pay.
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Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 171
From: ENGLEWOOD,CO,USA
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 113
From: Ft Collins, Colorado
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 976
From: SE MI
GM uses a rich A/F mixture that burns cleaner and the power programmers lean it out. Results are more power and better fuel mileage. I was happy with the lowest setting of +55hp on my Bullydog programmer for towing. The people that are trying to push 150-200hp are idiots and deserve a large repair bill. The trans just wont take it and the EGTs go way up.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Wait a sec...
The OEM's integrity relative to honoring warrantys isn't exactly stellar either. They'll lie, cheat, steal and obfuscate as badly as ANY customer.
Remember piston slap? Oil guzzling LS1's? Trying to deny warranty work for a lid or an air filter in direct violation of the Manguson-Moss warranty act?
Or shall we talk about media darling Toyota and the engine sludge bull****, or ultra-flimsy tailgates?
Now, I'm not advocating dishonesty here, but I'm here to tell you that at least in the RECENT past, ALL OF THE OEM's I am familiar with, and the dealers, were as dishonest as the people described above.
The truly annoying thing is when GM KNOWS there is an issue, and still resists every attempt to get the issue fixed on a new car.
What we get is a circle of dishonesty, where the customers lie, the dealers lie, the OEM's lie... everybody lies.
The OEM's integrity relative to honoring warrantys isn't exactly stellar either. They'll lie, cheat, steal and obfuscate as badly as ANY customer.
Remember piston slap? Oil guzzling LS1's? Trying to deny warranty work for a lid or an air filter in direct violation of the Manguson-Moss warranty act?
Or shall we talk about media darling Toyota and the engine sludge bull****, or ultra-flimsy tailgates?
Now, I'm not advocating dishonesty here, but I'm here to tell you that at least in the RECENT past, ALL OF THE OEM's I am familiar with, and the dealers, were as dishonest as the people described above.
The truly annoying thing is when GM KNOWS there is an issue, and still resists every attempt to get the issue fixed on a new car.
What we get is a circle of dishonesty, where the customers lie, the dealers lie, the OEM's lie... everybody lies.
Last edited by PacerX; Jun 27, 2008 at 07:33 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 162
From: St. Louis, MO
I tell them they can keep the warrenty and instead give me more money off.
When they question why. I say because you probably won't honor it anyway without hassle.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,650
From: Indianapolis, IN
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,049
From: Confederate States of America
Wait a sec...
The OEM's integrity relative to honoring warrantys isn't exactly stellar either. They'll lie, cheat, steal and obfuscate as badly as ANY customer.
Remember piston slap? Oil guzzling LS1's? Trying to deny warranty work for a lid or an air filter in direct violation of the Manguson-Moss warranty act?
Or shall we talk about media darling Toyota and the engine sludge bull****, or ultra-flimsy tailgates?
Now, I'm not advocating dishonesty here, but I'm here to tell you that at least in the RECENT past, ALL OF THE OEM's I am familiar with, and the dealers, were as dishonest as the people described above.
The truly annoying thing is when GM KNOWS there is an issue, and still resists every attempt to get the issue fixed on a new car.
What we get is a circle of dishonesty, where the customers lie, the dealers lie, the OEM's lie... everybody lies.
The OEM's integrity relative to honoring warrantys isn't exactly stellar either. They'll lie, cheat, steal and obfuscate as badly as ANY customer.
Remember piston slap? Oil guzzling LS1's? Trying to deny warranty work for a lid or an air filter in direct violation of the Manguson-Moss warranty act?
Or shall we talk about media darling Toyota and the engine sludge bull****, or ultra-flimsy tailgates?
Now, I'm not advocating dishonesty here, but I'm here to tell you that at least in the RECENT past, ALL OF THE OEM's I am familiar with, and the dealers, were as dishonest as the people described above.
The truly annoying thing is when GM KNOWS there is an issue, and still resists every attempt to get the issue fixed on a new car.
What we get is a circle of dishonesty, where the customers lie, the dealers lie, the OEM's lie... everybody lies.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,024
Mistubishi is trying to do this as well. With the Evo 8's and 9's there was a program that let you tune you car to your hearts delight, whether you knew what you were doing or not. I think puting some kind of log in there to detect stuff like this is a no brainer for the manufacturers
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
I've had 15k in/on my truck running interstates - NEVER felt a need for more power. 10k on a trailer and 2k in the bed, cruising in Overdrive at 70-75mph - NO PROBLEM. 520lb-ft of torque is HUGE in stock trim. WTF do I need 600 or 680 for?!?! To burn more fuel getting to 60mph 5 seconds faster?!?!
I've had buddys add propane kits, turbo kits, flash the EProm, and everything else. They start talking about querks and glitches and needing this and that. I get in my truck and go to work. Yes, they can beat me off the line at a stoplight. Whoopty-friggin-doo. It's a diesel work truck that weighs over 6000 lbs empty... is THAT what I want to drag race in? It's hardly why I bought the truck.
Interesting story - just 2 weeks ago I let my company slide a fast one in on me. We needed to get a molding tool to a shop for immediate repairs - down at 1pm, needed to run for an order due the next day. I found a shop that would take the job and get the tool back to us by 11pm so we could run it on 3rd, but we had to get it to him by 5pm. He was 16 miles away. Our company has a van, but no truck. They knew I had a truck and asked me if I'd deliver the tool. I asked the change-over guy what the tool weighed - he replied that he used a 5000lb electric lift to move the tool and it was no strain on the lift, so he guessed about 3000lbs or so.
Short story - as they put the tool in the back of my truck, I noticed it was sinking pretty severely. Right when I called the forklift operator to stop, the forks came free. I've never had my truck squat this much before, so I was pretty skeptical. Well, I got to the tool shop and the guys came out to look at the tool and unload it. 1 of the guys started wiping the oil and fibers and dust off the tool and made a comment, "D@mn, you got a helluva truck." Gloating a bit, I agreed with him and told him it's been a great one. This tool was a little more than I bargained for, but it handled the load pretty good. He responded to me calmly, "I wouldn't even think of putting 4400 lbs in my truck. You got me liking Fords pretty good if you treat yours like this and it's still going for you."
Yes, as he was wiping the tool down, he uncovered where the weight had been hand-stamped into the tool - 4378 lbs. After looking at this, I told him that I don't typically do such things, and that I was going to yank a knot in someone's head when I got back to the plant. I did have words with our changeover tech and threatened his future mobility if he ever hung me out like that again.
Point is, Capn Pete is spot on - such modifications are NOT WORTH THE COST OR IMPROVED PERFORMANCE - especially while the vehicle is under warranty. If it's older, needs a new engine or rebuild, or if you are doing a custom-job on one, great - go for it. However, it's my experience that a new superduty truck comes from the factory with enough power and capability to do anything the average guy can throw at it. If you mod it, you should pay for it.
As for PacerX's comments - I agree 100% It's a circle jerk.
None of the liars are the losers - they get what they deserve even if they "lose".
The REAL LOSERS are the few honest guys (on either side) because the liars have spoiled it for everyone and the honest dude really get's a load in the loins.
Sort of takes us back to the new American Business Model that has prospered so well for the last few decades, huh?
You know the one.."Love thy dollar above all else, Me first, Max my profits, Screw whomever/whatever you need to for money...etc."
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 929
NO. I own a SuperDuty and use it like a rented mule. If it's running, it's either got a load on it or it's heading to get one. It's too expensive to use for a joy-rider.
I've had 15k in/on my truck running interstates - NEVER felt a need for more power. 10k on a trailer and 2k in the bed, cruising in Overdrive at 70-75mph - NO PROBLEM. 520lb-ft of torque is HUGE in stock trim. WTF do I need 600 or 680 for?!?! To burn more fuel getting to 60mph 5 seconds faster?!?!
I've had buddys add propane kits, turbo kits, flash the EProm, and everything else. They start talking about querks and glitches and needing this and that. I get in my truck and go to work. Yes, they can beat me off the line at a stoplight. Whoopty-friggin-doo. It's a diesel work truck that weighs over 6000 lbs empty... is THAT what I want to drag race in? It's hardly why I bought the truck.
Interesting story - just 2 weeks ago I let my company slide a fast one in on me. We needed to get a molding tool to a shop for immediate repairs - down at 1pm, needed to run for an order due the next day. I found a shop that would take the job and get the tool back to us by 11pm so we could run it on 3rd, but we had to get it to him by 5pm. He was 16 miles away. Our company has a van, but no truck. They knew I had a truck and asked me if I'd deliver the tool. I asked the change-over guy what the tool weighed - he replied that he used a 5000lb electric lift to move the tool and it was no strain on the lift, so he guessed about 3000lbs or so.
Short story - as they put the tool in the back of my truck, I noticed it was sinking pretty severely. Right when I called the forklift operator to stop, the forks came free. I've never had my truck squat this much before, so I was pretty skeptical. Well, I got to the tool shop and the guys came out to look at the tool and unload it. 1 of the guys started wiping the oil and fibers and dust off the tool and made a comment, "D@mn, you got a helluva truck." Gloating a bit, I agreed with him and told him it's been a great one. This tool was a little more than I bargained for, but it handled the load pretty good. He responded to me calmly, "I wouldn't even think of putting 4400 lbs in my truck. You got me liking Fords pretty good if you treat yours like this and it's still going for you."
Yes, as he was wiping the tool down, he uncovered where the weight had been hand-stamped into the tool - 4378 lbs. After looking at this, I told him that I don't typically do such things, and that I was going to yank a knot in someone's head when I got back to the plant. I did have words with our changeover tech and threatened his future mobility if he ever hung me out like that again.
Point is, Capn Pete is spot on - such modifications are NOT WORTH THE COST OR IMPROVED PERFORMANCE - especially while the vehicle is under warranty. If it's older, needs a new engine or rebuild, or if you are doing a custom-job on one, great - go for it. However, it's my experience that a new superduty truck comes from the factory with enough power and capability to do anything the average guy can throw at it. If you mod it, you should pay for it.
As for PacerX's comments - I agree 100% It's a circle jerk.
None of the liars are the losers - they get what they deserve even if they "lose".
The REAL LOSERS are the few honest guys (on either side) because the liars have spoiled it for everyone and the honest dude really get's a load in the loins.
Sort of takes us back to the new American Business Model that has prospered so well for the last few decades, huh?
You know the one.."Love thy dollar above all else, Me first, Max my profits, Screw whomever/whatever you need to for money...etc."
I've had 15k in/on my truck running interstates - NEVER felt a need for more power. 10k on a trailer and 2k in the bed, cruising in Overdrive at 70-75mph - NO PROBLEM. 520lb-ft of torque is HUGE in stock trim. WTF do I need 600 or 680 for?!?! To burn more fuel getting to 60mph 5 seconds faster?!?!
I've had buddys add propane kits, turbo kits, flash the EProm, and everything else. They start talking about querks and glitches and needing this and that. I get in my truck and go to work. Yes, they can beat me off the line at a stoplight. Whoopty-friggin-doo. It's a diesel work truck that weighs over 6000 lbs empty... is THAT what I want to drag race in? It's hardly why I bought the truck.
Interesting story - just 2 weeks ago I let my company slide a fast one in on me. We needed to get a molding tool to a shop for immediate repairs - down at 1pm, needed to run for an order due the next day. I found a shop that would take the job and get the tool back to us by 11pm so we could run it on 3rd, but we had to get it to him by 5pm. He was 16 miles away. Our company has a van, but no truck. They knew I had a truck and asked me if I'd deliver the tool. I asked the change-over guy what the tool weighed - he replied that he used a 5000lb electric lift to move the tool and it was no strain on the lift, so he guessed about 3000lbs or so.
Short story - as they put the tool in the back of my truck, I noticed it was sinking pretty severely. Right when I called the forklift operator to stop, the forks came free. I've never had my truck squat this much before, so I was pretty skeptical. Well, I got to the tool shop and the guys came out to look at the tool and unload it. 1 of the guys started wiping the oil and fibers and dust off the tool and made a comment, "D@mn, you got a helluva truck." Gloating a bit, I agreed with him and told him it's been a great one. This tool was a little more than I bargained for, but it handled the load pretty good. He responded to me calmly, "I wouldn't even think of putting 4400 lbs in my truck. You got me liking Fords pretty good if you treat yours like this and it's still going for you."
Yes, as he was wiping the tool down, he uncovered where the weight had been hand-stamped into the tool - 4378 lbs. After looking at this, I told him that I don't typically do such things, and that I was going to yank a knot in someone's head when I got back to the plant. I did have words with our changeover tech and threatened his future mobility if he ever hung me out like that again.
Point is, Capn Pete is spot on - such modifications are NOT WORTH THE COST OR IMPROVED PERFORMANCE - especially while the vehicle is under warranty. If it's older, needs a new engine or rebuild, or if you are doing a custom-job on one, great - go for it. However, it's my experience that a new superduty truck comes from the factory with enough power and capability to do anything the average guy can throw at it. If you mod it, you should pay for it.
As for PacerX's comments - I agree 100% It's a circle jerk.
None of the liars are the losers - they get what they deserve even if they "lose".
The REAL LOSERS are the few honest guys (on either side) because the liars have spoiled it for everyone and the honest dude really get's a load in the loins.
Sort of takes us back to the new American Business Model that has prospered so well for the last few decades, huh?
You know the one.."Love thy dollar above all else, Me first, Max my profits, Screw whomever/whatever you need to for money...etc."
I work the hell out of my Duramax/Alison Silverado and have no desire to mod it.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,449
From: Bentonville, AR
I think this is good. It isn't a manufacturers job to fix broken parts from your aftermarket modifications.
Of course, this only applies if the aftermarket parts installed directly relate to the failure of the OEM equipment. None of this airfilter caused rear to lock up BS...
Of course, this only applies if the aftermarket parts installed directly relate to the failure of the OEM equipment. None of this airfilter caused rear to lock up BS...