Do you think GM will offer a Firebird/TA after a couple years of production?
08-14-2007, 08:07 PM
#1
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Do you think GM will offer a Firebird/TA after a couple years of production?
A thread in the lounge made me think of this.
I really think it's a sin that GM did not to offer the T/A or Firebird but I understand their reasoning. If they were to do it now they could stand to loose a lot of money if this car bombs. -Which I'm sure it will NOT! THe time spent away from the F-Cars is creating a lot of buzz and attracting new buyers. I think it has also helped to change the stereotype of the typical Camaro owner. No more mullet mobile! (I hope)
ANYWAY....
My theory is that GM is going to see how the Camaro sells before they sink money into the production of the cousin car.. I say give it a couple years. If the Camaro is a hit, I think they may try to 'sink their teeth in farther' and make another hit w/ the TA, Firebird.
What's your take? Do you think they may do it?
I really think it's a sin that GM did not to offer the T/A or Firebird but I understand their reasoning. If they were to do it now they could stand to loose a lot of money if this car bombs. -Which I'm sure it will NOT! THe time spent away from the F-Cars is creating a lot of buzz and attracting new buyers. I think it has also helped to change the stereotype of the typical Camaro owner. No more mullet mobile! (I hope)
ANYWAY....
My theory is that GM is going to see how the Camaro sells before they sink money into the production of the cousin car.. I say give it a couple years. If the Camaro is a hit, I think they may try to 'sink their teeth in farther' and make another hit w/ the TA, Firebird.
What's your take? Do you think they may do it?
Last edited by Bayer-Z28; 08-14-2007 at 08:12 PM.
08-14-2007, 08:12 PM
#2
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I agree with what your thinking. But your going to get people swearing on the bible that it's never going to happen. I know it may not be in the pipeline now but if you step back and think about all the things that can happen you never know.
08-14-2007, 08:22 PM
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^ meh.. I'm not in this section much.. But I'm in the mood to talk 5th gen today..
I'm not asking 'will' they make it and I'm not crying about why they didn't make it.. I'm just asking do you think it may happen after a couple years of production..
Sorry if this may be some sort of a repost.. I just thought it would be a good topic, if we can be civil about it.
I'm not asking 'will' they make it and I'm not crying about why they didn't make it.. I'm just asking do you think it may happen after a couple years of production..
Sorry if this may be some sort of a repost.. I just thought it would be a good topic, if we can be civil about it.
08-15-2007, 01:15 AM
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Very dead horse that's starting to decompose. The way I see it I'm happy with the Camaro but if GM gives Pontiac a new Firebird/TA or even GTO that will be great too. I may not buy one but it would be nice to have the choice. If not the Camaro is fine with me.
08-15-2007, 06:10 PM
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from what i've heard with what they have to deal with to license the Trans Am name, i don't think we'll be seeing a T/A ever again
a Firebird is not out of the question if the coupe market takes off unexpectedly.. as of this time, all i've heard is that there are absolutely no plans in the works for a Firebird...
as for what i'd like out of a Firebird.. i'd like to see them move it away from the Camaro.. put it on the Alpha platform, make it a smaller more nimble car.. but then the question becomes, will Alpha be able to fit a V8.. if not will enthusiests have a problem if the top Firebird would have a turbo 3.6L for instance.. making 350 or so horsepower?..
*this is based purely on speculation.. and what i think would be cool.. not based on fact or inside tips or anything
a Firebird is not out of the question if the coupe market takes off unexpectedly.. as of this time, all i've heard is that there are absolutely no plans in the works for a Firebird...
as for what i'd like out of a Firebird.. i'd like to see them move it away from the Camaro.. put it on the Alpha platform, make it a smaller more nimble car.. but then the question becomes, will Alpha be able to fit a V8.. if not will enthusiests have a problem if the top Firebird would have a turbo 3.6L for instance.. making 350 or so horsepower?..
*this is based purely on speculation.. and what i think would be cool.. not based on fact or inside tips or anything
08-16-2007, 12:13 PM
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A thread in the lounge made me think of this.
I really think it's a sin that GM did not to offer the T/A or Firebird but I understand their reasoning. If they were to do it now they could stand to loose a lot of money if this car bombs. -Which I'm sure it will NOT! THe time spent away from the F-Cars is creating a lot of buzz and attracting new buyers. I think it has also helped to change the stereotype of the typical Camaro owner. No more mullet mobile! (I hope)
ANYWAY....
My theory is that GM is going to see how the Camaro sells before they sink money into the production of the cousin car.. I say give it a couple years. If the Camaro is a hit, I think they may try to 'sink their teeth in farther' and make another hit w/ the TA, Firebird.
What's your take? Do you think they may do it?
I really think it's a sin that GM did not to offer the T/A or Firebird but I understand their reasoning. If they were to do it now they could stand to loose a lot of money if this car bombs. -Which I'm sure it will NOT! THe time spent away from the F-Cars is creating a lot of buzz and attracting new buyers. I think it has also helped to change the stereotype of the typical Camaro owner. No more mullet mobile! (I hope)
ANYWAY....
My theory is that GM is going to see how the Camaro sells before they sink money into the production of the cousin car.. I say give it a couple years. If the Camaro is a hit, I think they may try to 'sink their teeth in farther' and make another hit w/ the TA, Firebird.
What's your take? Do you think they may do it?
Well beyer, I know you've been around long enough and already know the answer (many times over I'm guessing), but I guess the question does serve a purpose for those who have joined the site of late, and don't use the search button and the subject left the sticky section some time ago.
1. Will the Firebird Return?
If you mean as a clone of the Camaro, nope.
A few people from GM have weighed in on this since the concept came out last January. Although the common thread is never say never, the thing that comes through is that IF GM used the Firebird name, it would be on a car very different from the Camaro.
2. Will the Trans Am name ever return?
To paraphrase Chris Tucker, not only no, but H*LL NO!!!
The problem as mentioned is that the Trans Am name is owned by the SCCA (www.SCCA.org). To make a long story short, John Delorean who had a habit of stealing race course names to apply to Pontiacs earned GM a threatened lawsuit when the Trans Am name was used on a Firebird appearence package. GM settled by giving $5 to the SCCA for each Trans Am sold. GM tried to get out of the deal when the 3rd gen Firebirds came out by naming the performance version T/A, which was dropped when the SCCA again threatened legal action, and GM decided using the full name & paying $5 per car was easier and cheaper than tying up their legal department when there was bigger fish to fry.
With the lapse in production, GM would have to renegotiate the useage of the Trans Am name with the SCCA, who will no doubt demand alot more than $5 per car. After 40 years of inflation and an equally long amount of built up fans, not to mention being locked to a $5 royalty that became relatively worthless by the time "Smokey and the Bandit" came out (we had runaway inflation in the 70s), you can't blame them. With all the other names GM owns and can create, GM would probally rather stick forks in their eyes than give away money to use the Trans Am name again.
To top it off, Pontiac no more wants to be associated with the historic Pontiac Trans Ams any more than Buick wants to be associated with Grand Nationals (another revenue negative name that has zero chance of returning).
3. What is the most likely way the Firebird name will return?
As a mid sized, G6 sedan replacement........ relax, I'm just kidding.
In order, first most likely the Firebird will be a sports coupe version spinoff of GM's upcoming small RWD architecture the way Camaro is a spinoff of Kappa. The next most likely candidate is a GTO-like car based on Camaro. Basically a high content, low-to-no option car that would start well into the $30K range. The $32,000 WS6 Trans Am was the most popular Firebird while the cheap Formula LS1 barely sold 1000 cars it's final year. Firebird customers have been far more willing to pay almost ridiculous amounts of money compared to the prices on the same car in Camaro showrooms.
4. Is it possible that if the Camaro is a success, then Pontiac will have a Firebird the following year or 2 later?
Only in the minds of 2nd tier car rags and never-say-die Pontiac enthusiasts..... as if GM would make a Camaro if they didn't expect it to be a success.
If the coupe market Exploded (as in with a capital "E"!), then we have an entirely different set of circumstances. But even then, expecting a Camaro with a Pontiac nose grafted on and new tail lights ala previous Firebirds and marketed to people who want a "Pontiac Camaro", again isn't going to happen. We'd probally see an upmarket coupe with a different personality and different pricing as I mentioned.
Also, it takes at least 18 months from approval to get a car to showrooms. No automaker is going to bring out a new vehicle, sit around and wait for the 1st year figures, then bring out a model the following year. Anything that comes out within a 2 year timeframe was already planned.
In short, whatever Camaro spinoff that comes along 1 to 2 years later didn't come along simply because anyone waited to see how Camaro would sell.
Last edited by guionM; 08-16-2007 at 12:22 PM.
08-16-2007, 01:35 PM
#14
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Location: Nashville, TN area
Posts: 11,157
As evident by the "Z28 vs. SS" debate rearing its pointless head yet again.
Not true, it is in the "Camaro Super FAQ to answer all questions!" sticky, which I have just edited and added your EXCELLENT post above into. Thanks!
I plan be revamping that Sticky soon to add more.
the subject left the sticky section some time ago.
I plan be revamping that Sticky soon to add more.
08-16-2007, 04:19 PM
#15
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: san antonio, tx
Posts: 36
I see it's dead horse season yet again.
Well beyer, I know you've been around long enough and already know the answer (many times over I'm guessing), but I guess the question does serve a purpose for those who have joined the site of late, and don't use the search button and the subject left the sticky section some time ago.
1. Will the Firebird Return?
If you mean as a clone of the Camaro, nope.
A few people from GM have weighed in on this since the concept came out last January. Although the common thread is never say never, the thing that comes through is that IF GM used the Firebird name, it would be on a car very different from the Camaro.
2. Will the Trans Am name ever return?
To paraphrase Chris Tucker, not only no, but H*LL NO!!!
The problem as mentioned is that the Trans Am name is owned by the SCCA (www.SCCA.org). To make a long story short, John Delorean who had a habit of stealing race course names to apply to Pontiacs earned GM a threatened lawsuit when the Trans Am name was used on a Firebird appearence package. GM settled by giving $5 to the SCCA for each Trans Am sold. GM tried to get out of the deal when the 3rd gen Firebirds came out by naming the performance version T/A, which was dropped when the SCCA again threatened legal action, and GM decided using the full name & paying $5 per car was easier and cheaper than tying up their legal department when there was bigger fish to fry.
With the lapse in production, GM would have to renegotiate the useage of the Trans Am name with the SCCA, who will no doubt demand alot more than $5 per car. After 40 years of inflation and an equally long amount of built up fans, not to mention being locked to a $5 royalty that became relatively worthless by the time "Smokey and the Bandit" came out (we had runaway inflation in the 70s), you can't blame them. With all the other names GM owns and can create, GM would probally rather stick forks in their eyes than give away money to use the Trans Am name again.
To top it off, Pontiac no more wants to be associated with the historic Pontiac Trans Ams any more than Buick wants to be associated with Grand Nationals (another revenue negative name that has zero chance of returning).
3. What is the most likely way the Firebird name will return?
As a mid sized, G6 sedan replacement........ relax, I'm just kidding.
In order, first most likely the Firebird will be a sports coupe version spinoff of GM's upcoming small RWD architecture the way Camaro is a spinoff of Kappa. The next most likely candidate is a GTO-like car based on Camaro. Basically a high content, low-to-no option car that would start well into the $30K range. The $32,000 WS6 Trans Am was the most popular Firebird while the cheap Formula LS1 barely sold 1000 cars it's final year. Firebird customers have been far more willing to pay almost ridiculous amounts of money compared to the prices on the same car in Camaro showrooms.
4. Is it possible that if the Camaro is a success, then Pontiac will have a Firebird the following year or 2 later?
Only in the minds of 2nd tier car rags and never-say-die Pontiac enthusiasts..... as if GM would make a Camaro if they didn't expect it to be a success.
If the coupe market Exploded (as in with a capital "E"!), then we have an entirely different set of circumstances. But even then, expecting a Camaro with a Pontiac nose grafted on and new tail lights ala previous Firebirds and marketed to people who want a "Pontiac Camaro", again isn't going to happen. We'd probally see an upmarket coupe with a different personality and different pricing as I mentioned.
Also, it takes at least 18 months from approval to get a car to showrooms. No automaker is going to bring out a new vehicle, sit around and wait for the 1st year figures, then bring out a model the following year. Anything that comes out within a 2 year timeframe was already planned.
In short, whatever Camaro spinoff that comes along 1 to 2 years later didn't come along simply because anyone waited to see how Camaro would sell.
Well beyer, I know you've been around long enough and already know the answer (many times over I'm guessing), but I guess the question does serve a purpose for those who have joined the site of late, and don't use the search button and the subject left the sticky section some time ago.
1. Will the Firebird Return?
If you mean as a clone of the Camaro, nope.
A few people from GM have weighed in on this since the concept came out last January. Although the common thread is never say never, the thing that comes through is that IF GM used the Firebird name, it would be on a car very different from the Camaro.
2. Will the Trans Am name ever return?
To paraphrase Chris Tucker, not only no, but H*LL NO!!!
The problem as mentioned is that the Trans Am name is owned by the SCCA (www.SCCA.org). To make a long story short, John Delorean who had a habit of stealing race course names to apply to Pontiacs earned GM a threatened lawsuit when the Trans Am name was used on a Firebird appearence package. GM settled by giving $5 to the SCCA for each Trans Am sold. GM tried to get out of the deal when the 3rd gen Firebirds came out by naming the performance version T/A, which was dropped when the SCCA again threatened legal action, and GM decided using the full name & paying $5 per car was easier and cheaper than tying up their legal department when there was bigger fish to fry.
With the lapse in production, GM would have to renegotiate the useage of the Trans Am name with the SCCA, who will no doubt demand alot more than $5 per car. After 40 years of inflation and an equally long amount of built up fans, not to mention being locked to a $5 royalty that became relatively worthless by the time "Smokey and the Bandit" came out (we had runaway inflation in the 70s), you can't blame them. With all the other names GM owns and can create, GM would probally rather stick forks in their eyes than give away money to use the Trans Am name again.
To top it off, Pontiac no more wants to be associated with the historic Pontiac Trans Ams any more than Buick wants to be associated with Grand Nationals (another revenue negative name that has zero chance of returning).
3. What is the most likely way the Firebird name will return?
As a mid sized, G6 sedan replacement........ relax, I'm just kidding.
In order, first most likely the Firebird will be a sports coupe version spinoff of GM's upcoming small RWD architecture the way Camaro is a spinoff of Kappa. The next most likely candidate is a GTO-like car based on Camaro. Basically a high content, low-to-no option car that would start well into the $30K range. The $32,000 WS6 Trans Am was the most popular Firebird while the cheap Formula LS1 barely sold 1000 cars it's final year. Firebird customers have been far more willing to pay almost ridiculous amounts of money compared to the prices on the same car in Camaro showrooms.
4. Is it possible that if the Camaro is a success, then Pontiac will have a Firebird the following year or 2 later?
Only in the minds of 2nd tier car rags and never-say-die Pontiac enthusiasts..... as if GM would make a Camaro if they didn't expect it to be a success.
If the coupe market Exploded (as in with a capital "E"!), then we have an entirely different set of circumstances. But even then, expecting a Camaro with a Pontiac nose grafted on and new tail lights ala previous Firebirds and marketed to people who want a "Pontiac Camaro", again isn't going to happen. We'd probally see an upmarket coupe with a different personality and different pricing as I mentioned.
Also, it takes at least 18 months from approval to get a car to showrooms. No automaker is going to bring out a new vehicle, sit around and wait for the 1st year figures, then bring out a model the following year. Anything that comes out within a 2 year timeframe was already planned.
In short, whatever Camaro spinoff that comes along 1 to 2 years later didn't come along simply because anyone waited to see how Camaro would sell.
Someone buy this fella a beer!
Well said! Hopefully some of the excessively persistent people will have enough attention span to read that, haha!