L76 Powered Camaro?

[nightwave]

After the introduction of the G8 with the L76, would that engine make it into any other US cars? Might this be the mid-level engine?

[Big Als Z]

If we get a 300hp V6, a L76 Camaro sounds like it should fit right in. 390ftlbs is still good.

[ChrisL]

Will we see the L76 in other cars? Probably

Will we see it in the new Camaro. I doubt it.

The V8 is going to be, lets say for arguements sake, in the 425HP range. Having a 2nd V8 coming in around 360HP just doesnt make sense. It's too close together. GM would have to underprice the 360HP L76, or overprice the 425HP LSx. If the MSRP is too close together, who is going to buy an L76 when they could get more HP for a little more money. The cost of building either V8 is going to be close.... so its not a good business case to offer both.

[SS 396]

I was kind of hoping the mid-level L76 camaro would be priced closer to the 300 hp v6, so that a lot of us could have an affordable V8 Camaro.

Guess I'm just holding out hope that they build a Camaro for those of us who want a V8 for a reasonable price. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm a newbie on this board) but i think there may be a lot of us on the 'affordable v8' bandwagon.

[EllwynX]

Originally Posted by SS 396

I was kind of hoping the mid-level L76 camaro would be priced closer to the 300 hp v6, so that a lot of us could have an affordable V8 Camaro.

Guess I'm just holding out hope that they build a Camaro for those of us who want a V8 for a reasonable price. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm a newbie on this board) but i think there may be a lot of us on the 'affordable v8' bandwagon.

Well, I'm all for the 'affordable V8'. But I'd like it to be a 400hp+ V8 also.

Considering what the 'affordable' V8's of today are putting out, an affordable one in 2 years should be putting out about 400 anyway. Horsepower goes up all the time, so I'm pretty confident a 400hp Camaro WILL be the affordable V8 of 2009.

[camarolvr69]

i dont think we need a v8 thats close to any v6 model. for example the new DOHC 3.6 that GM is using, will put down about 300 depending on what vehicle its put in. Why would you need a v8 that has only a few more ponies? the majority of young consumers would buy the v6 model because of insurance, and everyone else would buy the 400+ hp v8 model. The "in between" v8 would be targeted at a very small percentage of buyers and is not necassary imo.

[Ray86IROC]

Is it true this L76 has the L92 heads that are supposedly a "truck" version of the LS7 heads? GMHTP's head comparo shootout series showed them to be pretty damned awesome, what kind of runt peanut cam did they stick in this L76 to stiffle the output to 360ish hp? Wonder if that's underrated some or what, or maybe it's the tune since someone mentioned it's tuned for 87 octance in another thread.

If this makes it into the midrange or maybe even just the standard V8 Camaro model there would seem to be alot of room for HP improvement w/ a better cam and/or a more aggressive tune. Heck, for the Camaro model GM may go w/ a larger cam and tune from the factory...

GMHTP got like 540hp out of a LS2 w/ a "Stage II" cam, dyno headers, the L92 heads and the matching L76 intake on a engine dyno, which was something like a 40 hp improvement over the LS2 heads with the same cam/exhaust setup and matched/beat most of the aftermarket heads tested too...

Makes me wonder what GM had to cripple to get it down to 360hp vs the LS2s 400, that's "only" the kind of output they were getting from the LS1. I mean how do you have a 6.0 liter w/ significantly better heads than the LS2 and yet throw 40 hp out the window, the cam would have to be pitiful?? I will be interested to see what they put down at the wheels on a dyno.

Although it sounds like it has pretty amazing potential, I will be disappointed if this is the standard affordable V8 option for the SS or Z28. I've been assuming a 400-425+ hp LS3 would be the standard...

[Big Als Z]

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Will we see the L76 in other cars? Probably

Will we see it in the new Camaro. I doubt it.

The V8 is going to be, lets say for arguements sake, in the 425HP range. Having a 2nd V8 coming in around 360HP just doesnt make sense. It's too close together. GM would have to underprice the 360HP L76, or overprice the 425HP LSx. If the MSRP is too close together, who is going to buy an L76 when they could get more HP for a little more money. The cost of building either V8 is going to be close.... so its not a good business case to offer both.

If the only V8 option is a 425hp one, then Camaro's fate is sealed.
Thinking that the price gap being close will either make someone pick one or the other, thats rather stupid! Not EVERYONE wants a 425hp V8 Camaro! But with Mustang getting a 260-280hp V6 by 09, and a 350+hp V8 as well, what will the people who just want a potent V8 do if they want Camaro? spend over 30k for a V8?
If this is how its gunna be, Camaro is doomed. This is EXACTLY what happend with Camaro in the 4th gen. 325hp V8 was a monster, but not EVERYONE wanted a 325hp Camaro!
You are leaving a 125hp gap from the 3.6 to the 6.2 That is a lot of people you are leaving out in the dark, a lot.
Not everyone will justify the close price gap of a 360hp V8 and a 425hp by a few bucks. Not everyone who buys Camaro is an enthusiast. People will want a mild V8 car that gives them good power and handling without having hp to wrap themselves around a telephone pole, or cause insurance to sky rocket, or all the rest of the goodies that come along with an "affordable" 400hp+ coupe.

[ChrisL]

Originally Posted by Big Als Z

If the only V8 option is a 425hp one, then Camaro's fate is sealed.
Thinking that the price gap being close will either make someone pick one or the other, thats rather stupid! Not EVERYONE wants a 425hp V8 Camaro! But with Mustang getting a 260-280hp V6 by 09, and a 350+hp V8 as well, what will the people who just want a potent V8 do if they want Camaro? spend over 30k for a V8?
If this is how its gunna be, Camaro is doomed. This is EXACTLY what happend with Camaro in the 4th gen. 325hp V8 was a monster, but not EVERYONE wanted a 325hp Camaro!
You are leaving a 125hp gap from the 3.6 to the 6.2 That is a lot of people you are leaving out in the dark, a lot.
Not everyone will justify the close price gap of a 360hp V8 and a 425hp by a few bucks. Not everyone who buys Camaro is an enthusiast. People will want a mild V8 car that gives them good power and handling without having hp to wrap themselves around a telephone pole, or cause insurance to sky rocket, or all the rest of the goodies that come along with an "affordable" 400hp+ coupe.

stupid? hardly.

yup, it's doomed. I'd give Mr Peper a call and tell them to scuttle the program now.



The whole point of this new Camaro is it has to appeal to non enthusiats, and they are not going to care about a V8.

So long as the base V8 Camaro is priced competetively vs the base V8 Mustang, then all will be well.

[SS 396]

Originally Posted by EllwynX

Well, I'm all for the 'affordable V8'. But I'd like it to be a 400hp+ V8 also.

Considering what the 'affordable' V8's of today are putting out, an affordable one in 2 years should be putting out about 400 anyway. Horsepower goes up all the time, so I'm pretty confident a 400hp Camaro WILL be the affordable V8 of 2009.

I agree. 400 sounds like a nice number.

[Big Als Z]

Pricing a 425hp V8 Camaro along side a 350hp Mustang GT....
Not having a mid 300hp V8 engine will be the decline.
There will be either a 280hp V6 that will be mid pack, or a 425hp Camaro, leaving the people inthe middle only to go to Mustang land. Good move.
Same closed mindedness that 4th gens have. 200hp V6 will have to apease the people, while the enthusiasts went after the 300hp V8's, leaving the mid 200's for the GT to eat Camaro's lunch, on top of offerieng a near 300hp Cobra option for the die hards.

[ChrisL]

Originally Posted by Big Als Z

There will be either a 280hp V6 that will be mid pack, or a 425hp Camaro, leaving the people inthe middle only to go to Mustang land. Good move.

Pure speculation regarding what they will do, but I dont think there will be that big of a gap between HP offerings.

[Mjolnir]

Everybody agrees on a V6 around 285 hp for around $22k, right?

And we're all pretty comfortable with a V8 at about 425 hp for about $35k, right?

But no one sees a need for a 350 hp V8 at about $28.5k? Particularly in light of CAFE and insurance?

[ChrisL]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

And we're all pretty comfortable with a V8 at about 425 hp for about $35k, right?

I'm not.

Base V8 Mustang MSRPs at $26,440, and we already know Camaro will be price competetive against it. Shame on Ford if the best they can deliver at that price is 300HP.

When this is all said and done, V6 Camaros may very well be a better fight for the Mustang GT.

[Plague]

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I'm not.

Base V8 Mustang MSRPs at $26,440, and we already know Camaro will be price competetive against it. Shame on Ford if the best they can deliver at that price is 300HP.

When this is all said and done, V6 Camaros may very well be a better fight for the Mustang GT.

425HP might be the top dog. If the 362HP engine was used as a entry v8 priced at the same as the mustang, it could work.