first of all, great job by GM designers and lutz and company for bringing us a camaro concept. i've been reading a lot of positive feedback on the car, but one element seems to have been overlooked from looking at the concept: size and weight.

the last few generations of the fbody have all been too large and heavy. by definition, a sports car should be small and lightweight. much as i hate to say this ford has had the edge on us size-wise and weight-wise for the pre-2005 models.the new camaro should not be any larger than a fox body mustang and weigh no more than 3200-3300 pounds.

to it's credit, gm has taken notice and acted on the size issue with the c6 vette and that car has been a huge success. same must be done with any proposed camaro.

our 3rd and 4th gens are great cars, but had they been smaller and lighter on their feet, women and foreign markets would be much more interested in them, thus much more sales. that's one of the biggest complaints i hear from my g/f about my t/a "it's too heavy and long, too much body roll."

the concept car is stunning, but i hope gm pays attention to what is happening with the GTO. a lot of folks are dissuaded from buying the goat due to its 3900 pound weight (myself included). gm must follow the standard set by the c6 and reduce the size and weight of these cars if they want to attract a larger audience.

 

3rd gens sold great compared to 4th gens! Your off on the weight of the GTO--Pontiac says 3725lbs. But thats still to heavy for a new Camaro.

I wonder if thet could use the hydroforming technology to keep weight down?

I won't tie myself to an exact weight--but under 3600lbs is preferable, 3200 seems too unrealistic. How about settle for lighter then the Mustang?

 

GMHTP has the goat at nearly 3900 pounds, and i've seen other sources quote 3800 plus. nonetheless, there is no reason a proposed camaro should not be around 3300 max.

3 rd gens did sell better than 4th, however no fbod generation has ever surpassed the mustang. seems like until the fbod died in 2002, the smaller lighter mustang always had the sales lead. only after the fbod died did ford pork out the new stang with > 3500 pounds.

 

the car is smaller than a Mustang in many measurements, but don't count on a 'lightweight'....not if you want it affordable.

What people tend to forget is crashworthiness. Unless you design for a 5 star rating in front/rear/side/rollover......you will be dead in the water in terms of sales and insurance rates. That does not come cheaply.....and it means weight.

REST ASSURED that no one wants to see a light weight Camaro more than GM.......why? CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) where weight is poison to fuel economy.

Yes.....we can use exotic materials to drop weight....but it comes at a price.

If the car trounces everything near it in terms of handling on a track.......and has class leading acceleration.....????????

 

In other words boy's don't expect a 3300lb Camaro, that would be absurd. I expect around 3600lb when it's all said and done.

 

if it's smaller than a mustang that's great, however most of us have not yet seen it in person and the pics tend to make it look bigger. understood on the other points on affordability and crashworthiness, however if it can be done on a vette, then we should be able to get reasonably close in size and weight on the camaro too.

one area i've always thought that was too long in the fbodies was the rear quarter panel. chop that off by 6-8 inches and you've saved 100 pounds. make it the size of the fox body and </= 3300 pounds and we will love it (women and foreigners too). the current mustang is a poor example to follow - too heavy. this camaro must wipe the floor with everything else out there in the 20-30k class, mustang, challenger, and japanese eclipses, wrx's, 350z, etc.

 

Yes......it can be done on a Vette.....but look at the price of a Vette........again, the car MUST be affordable to the vast public......not just a few..........that's what would make it a Chevy.......well within most peoples' reach.

 

no doubt the vette is more $$, that's why i said "reasonably close." i'm not expecting the same weight at all, but within 100 or 150 pounds is acceptable. it cannot be as big and heavy as the 4th gens, you'd end up with the same slow sales. the market will be looking for smaller, more nimble vehicles in sports coupes. matter of fact, i would welcome back seats being deleted from the design in order to save weight and size.

 

You can't compare the Camaro to the 'Vette, otherwise you'd better be prepared to pay 'Vette prices for the next Camaro .

Chop 6 - 8 inches off the car?!?! And from the rear quarters at that?!!?!? Step away from the crack pipe, son!!! Dude, seriously, those rear quarters ("hips" shall we call them?) are probably one of the sexiest parts of the car by far! And if you took away that, where would the trunk and/or rear suspension and/or back seat be?!

I like your enthusiasm about waxing everything on the roads with the new Camaro, but we've gotta be realistic and accept that the Camaro won't weigh anywhere close to the 'Vette, and especially not for the price we want it to be! Ideally, I'd like it to be ~3400 - 3500 lbs, same as the 4th-gen was, but like Scott mentioned, the new stricter crash test standards are going to make the car heavy ... it's a sad fact . Again, not unless you want to pay as much as a 'Vette?

 

When deciding on size just don’t forget tall people want to fit in this car too!

 

i'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you and the "crack pipe son" blithering, but you have your opinion and i have mine. if ford, nissan, and mitsubishi can all make affordable sports cars smaller and lighter than the 4th gens and make money on them at reasonable prices there is no way in hell GM should not be able to do the same. the botton line is this car HAS to be smaller and lighter than the past iterations to attract a wider demographic. w eneed to look no further than the gto to see what too much weight does to sales.

 

Wrong. The later 2nd Gens outsold M*stangs 2 years IIRC and Camaros did it by themselves 5 years in the Third Gen and outsold the M*stang 8 years with combined sales.

 

That comment wasn't intended to be serious ... only in fun .

I hear what you're saying, but I think a BIG problem with the 4th-gen wasn't actually the CAR so much as it was GM not DOING anything with it . If you look at the "package" that you got with a 4th-gen, it was a helluva great package, just too bad nobody really knew about it, 'cause GM didn't market them all that well . I read a good magazine comparison a couple years back (probably during '02 model year) that put an LS1 Camaro against other brands' sports coupes (Mustang GT, BMW 3-series, Integra/Civic, Toyota Celica GT, can't remember the others) and the Camaro out-performed pretty much ALL the cars in ALL categories! (acceleration, braking, handling - only matched or beat by BMW I believe? ).

My point is, the Camaro is in many ways even better "bang for your buck" compared to the Mustang (way more a$$-kicking power) yet the Mustang SELLS. I don't think it had anything to do with a couple hundred pounds difference .

 

i stand corrected, however - overall sales of mustangs FAR exceeds that of all fbodies combined. smaller, easier to handle size and weight is a principal factor in those higher sales - especially during the 80's and 90's and early 2k's.

 

You should do some research, thirdgens sold FAR more than fourth gens did. In 1984 100k Z28s alone were sold, a record for the brand. 4th gen production only reached 100k TOTAL for a few years.