Nitro_Rat

Which is the correct direction for installing this rear main seal on my LT1 (97 SS)? This should be easy, but I'm a little stumped. It is a "Teflon" rear seal (the later model LT1's and LT4's used a teflon seal, as opposed to the older rubber seal). These are installed dry (no lube). I got all this - no prob

However, this is a Victor Reinz brand seal (not Fel-Pro, and not OEM/GM). I chose this Victor seal because it comes with a handy plastic installation guide cap that you place over the crank and helps the lip of the seal expand and slip over the flange of the crank during installation. Nice What it doesn't come with are any installation instructions what so ever. No-so nice Normally, this wouldn't be a problem; most seals are very easy to determine the correct orientation. This one is not. With the Fel-Pro and OEM seals, the flat part of the seal-housing always goes towards the tranny. This is what you press (or hammer) on to drive in the unit. This seal has no "flat" surface. I will try to describe my question, but the pictures are the best descriptor.

When I orient the new Victor seal such that the conical "taper" of the actual sealing surface is the same as the old OEM seal, the "housing" orientation of the seal, which then points towards the tranny, doesn't seem right. By not "right", I mean that it seems it would not leave any meat to grab on to if you were removing the seal. If I install the "housing" of the seal in the direction that seems proper, the taper of the sealing surface is in the wrong direction (opposite from the old OEM seal).

Here are some images to help (apologies for the small size). I've labeled the sides of the Victor seal as "Side A" and "Side B", just to make it easy to refer to in any responses you guys give. Does side "A" or side "B" go towards the tranny (i.e. outside)?





BTW... This all started out with a "simple" clutch install... ...which led to a new slave cylinder, master cylinder, flywheel, (TO & pilot bearing & pressure plate, of course), oil pan gasket, new Rear Main Seal, new pinion seal, (+broken exhaust flange stud, just for fun ), etc. Funny how that stuff happen's eh? The good news is that, I'm taking my time and documenting EVERYTHING with tons of pictures and HQ video. I will make a multi-part video and post on YT when it's all done. Hey, I gotta give back, as much as this board has helped me in the past (used to be on here quite a bit, back 10+ years ago). If you guys can help me out on this seal deal, I will hopefully have something of substance to contribute back very soon Much thanks--

slowpoke96z28

The best way I can say it is the inner diameter of the taper should face the front of the engine. Per your photos, side "A" faces the front, side "B" faces the trans.

slowpoke96z28

BTW, were there no OEM seals available?

Nitro_Rat

Hey, thanks so much for the input. I agree. Based on the orientation of the sealing surface (conical taper and the "ribs" or helix patter on the sealing lip) of the OEM seal, Side "A" of the VR would to towards the block and Side "B" towards the trans, as you say. The rear (trans) "face" of the seal is just bizarre though. It is not flat like the OEM or Fel-Pro seals (both teflon and rubber). The side of the VR seal that faces the trans will have a protruding ridge (not flat) that you must push against to install the seal. But that does indeed appear to be correct. I have blown-up several pictures that show how the seal is installed on the black plastic installation sleeve, as it is delivered new in-the-box. These confirm your thoughts as well (Side "B" towards the trans).

I actually just got done installing it this way this morning. I cleaned the crank and aluminum seal retaining plate for like over an hour It was so clean, rubbing with a white towel and brake clean produces no visible sign of oil or other contaminates. I'd say the crank and plate are as clean as you can get The seal went on very easy using the black plastic installation sleeve. To drive the seal home, I used the ubiquitous 4" PVC pipe and light taps. This was cake.

Regarding the OEM seals, I believe the teflon was actually specified in '97 LT1's and in all LT4's. Perhaps I should have just purchased a OEM GM seal from gmpartsdirect or similar (didn't even check). However, I did do a bit of research yesterday; both Fel-Pro and Victor Reinz have excellent info on the use of teflon as oil seals. Some members of the forums feel the older rubber seals should be used on high-mileage engines (mine has 174k) and teflon only on fresh rebuilds. This is due to the wear on the sealing surface of the crank after many miles (mine appears to have very little if any discernible wear). But VR and Fel-Pro indicate these seals are suitable for maintenance replacements and that teflon will tolerate minor surface imperfections.
From Fel-Pro: "PTFE rubber is the ultimate in rear main seal design and material. It offers the best in fluid and high-temperature compatibility, and the unique 'laydown lip' contact sealing surface can run on undersize shafts, seal minor shaft imperfections, and virtually eliminate shaft wear." They contrast this with other materials such as nitrile rubber, viton, polyacrylate, silicone, etc. I believe Mr. Gasket actually makes a red "silicone" RMS (fragile).

VR and Fel-Pro indicate teflon (PTFE) is the best material available for oil (RMS) seals. Both manufacturers have good information on this, but it is not intuitive to find on their websites. Here are the direct links:
Fel-Pro: http://fme-cat.com/LiveDocs/Rear%20M...eal%20Sets.pdf
VR: Oil Seals - Sealing Products Victor Reinz Aftermarket

I greatly appreciate the feedback and sanity check on this. Seal installation direction is generally intuitive by the design. But the unique rear face of this VR seal had me questioning myself. MUCH APPRECIATED!

Nitro_Rat

I'm going to change plugs and wires while I get this seal-deal sorted out. Meanwhile, here is a pic of the installed seal... It just looks - unusual...

Chimera96

Hey Nitro, saw this post on LS forum also

Man that Victor seal is "unique" and in looking a pics and after reading other responses I to am at a loss now as to how the F it installs. Maybe you have it right....or like other thread you have the wrong part # Guppy noted.

maybe your pics if sent to Victor they can confirm....or just get the FelPro and move on

I know what it is like on clutch install and staring at RMS...do I replace...it's not leaking now....ok I will leave it alone...then 500 mi after clutch swap...a drip. Been there so replacing the original was smart. Now just confirming you got it right or have the right one :-(

Nitro_Rat

Hey Chimera, I don't know how to say this, but having other people feel a little stumped makes me feel a little better about the whole deal So thanks for the empathy - seriously. I mean, seal installation/direction is generally about as straight forward as you can get. But then all of a sudden, you feel like "are you smarter than a 5th grader?" type deal That's what makes this forum so great. Thanks for the sanity check!!

Yeah, like you said, the dang RMS wasn't even leaking (oil pan, a different story). However, I just couldn't put it all back together without swapping that seal out. It's there staring you in the face and you think to yourself "it should be an easy task, right?". I've heard some say "a 3 minute job" with the tranny out. But IMHO, if you don't spend at LEAST 20 minutes cleaning everything up, it will be destined to leak. If you have the right seal and orientation isn't in question, then I'd say it's about the simplest job you could imagine. Sounds like you've been right there with the same decision. Hope your clutch survived the incident. Since mine is a bone stock SS, I didn't bother with a high $$$ clutch (stock Valeo, and as you probably know, all Pressure Plates are LT4-style now). What really breaks my heart is to put this exhaust, back onto those atrociously ugly restrictive cast iron exhaust manifolds LT headers should come stock on all engines! Thanks again--