Head dilema for my 383...AFR bare castings, full head, ported LT1's etc...
11-09-2003, 11:21 PM
#1
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Head dilema for my 383...AFR bare castings, full head, ported LT1's etc...
I'm driving myself crazy here trying to figure out this headgame...
What can you tell me about the AFR bare castings, vs. the complete head? I know the bare castings have no CNC work done to them. I've done searches and searches, yet can't find the answers I'm looking for. From what I can tell, a ported LT1 head will give an AFR 190? a pretty damn good run for it's money out of the box.
How good is the AFR hardware? I was thinking, since I'm going to get my heads ported, I could just sell the LT1 castings as cores or something and make a little $$, and put that towards some bare AFR castings and send them to get ported. I'd need all the hardware anyways...Just not sure what's the cheaper/better route to go...I would say that since the AFR's boxstock complete don't seem to do much more than a ported LT1, that a bare casting AFR would be a better bet?
What AFR heads have the cc down in the 54cc range? 190 is the biggest head I can get with the LT1 intake, 195's require the LT4 intake. I need 54cc'ish though because of my 16cc dish pistons.
Goal is 400rwhp, but if I'm going to be dropping this much money into the heads, I'm wondering if AFR would be a better way to go for a bit extra.
I can get the AFR 190/195's for $1545, and the bare castings for around $850 I'd imagine them to be...
What can you tell me about the AFR bare castings, vs. the complete head? I know the bare castings have no CNC work done to them. I've done searches and searches, yet can't find the answers I'm looking for. From what I can tell, a ported LT1 head will give an AFR 190? a pretty damn good run for it's money out of the box.
How good is the AFR hardware? I was thinking, since I'm going to get my heads ported, I could just sell the LT1 castings as cores or something and make a little $$, and put that towards some bare AFR castings and send them to get ported. I'd need all the hardware anyways...Just not sure what's the cheaper/better route to go...I would say that since the AFR's boxstock complete don't seem to do much more than a ported LT1, that a bare casting AFR would be a better bet?
What AFR heads have the cc down in the 54cc range? 190 is the biggest head I can get with the LT1 intake, 195's require the LT4 intake. I need 54cc'ish though because of my 16cc dish pistons.
Goal is 400rwhp, but if I'm going to be dropping this much money into the heads, I'm wondering if AFR would be a better way to go for a bit extra.
I can get the AFR 190/195's for $1545, and the bare castings for around $850 I'd imagine them to be...
Last edited by Dave88LX; 11-10-2003 at 12:08 AM.
11-09-2003, 11:33 PM
#2
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Bare castings should be just heads with no valves.
I know the RAW castings have no: valves/seats/guides/rocker stud threads.
I'm pretty sure you can run the LT1 intake on the AFR 195's bud, its the other way around, you can run an LT4 intake on the AFR 190's, but there might be some hole misalignment just a bit but you can elongate them on the intake.
I know the RAW castings have no: valves/seats/guides/rocker stud threads.
I'm pretty sure you can run the LT1 intake on the AFR 195's bud, its the other way around, you can run an LT4 intake on the AFR 190's, but there might be some hole misalignment just a bit but you can elongate them on the intake.
11-09-2003, 11:39 PM
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11-10-2003, 08:11 AM
#6
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Originally posted by CANTONRACER
A nicely ported set of LT1 heads would easily give you 400rwhp.
A nicely ported set of LT1 heads would easily give you 400rwhp.
11-10-2003, 09:07 AM
#7
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Are you planning on spraying it?They do have a thicker deck.Heres my view.After all is said and done the AFRs arent going to cost that much more.One thing tho,if you want them,order them now.They are busy,and take awhile.I do have their street version and am real happy with them.The hardware is decent.You can upgrade it too.Also,they can mill it to 54cc's.
Last edited by joeSS97; 11-10-2003 at 09:10 AM.
11-10-2003, 09:22 AM
#8
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You can take an LT1 head, send it out, get all out porting for what, $1500-$2000 and I would think kill a set of AFR heads out of the box.
Now get a AFR head and do the same work, well, then your back to how much do you want to spend?
Now get a AFR head and do the same work, well, then your back to how much do you want to spend?
11-10-2003, 09:46 AM
#9
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Originally posted by CANTONRACER
You can take an LT1 head, send it out, get all out porting for what, $1500-$2000 and I would think kill a set of AFR heads out of the box.
Now get a AFR head and do the same work, well, then your back to how much do you want to spend?
You can take an LT1 head, send it out, get all out porting for what, $1500-$2000 and I would think kill a set of AFR heads out of the box.
Now get a AFR head and do the same work, well, then your back to how much do you want to spend?
Unless you are wanting a set of max effort AFR heads (Big $) then id stick with LT1 castings as you will get comparable results with heavily ported LT1s vs mediocre ported AFRs.
11-10-2003, 10:49 AM
#10
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afr heads
i just sold a set of cnc lt1 heads that out flow the 195 lt4 heads i need to go to an afr 220 the company is called cnc heads they will do the heads for you they are nice think i paid in the 1300-1400.00 range almost the same price but like i said will out flow the afr 195 and you can still use your lt1 manifold just port match it
11-10-2003, 04:10 PM
#11
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Either way they won't be mediocre ported, I'm seriously contemplating on sending them to Phil (AI)...just not sure if an AFR bare casting is worth it or not, I don't know...or if the CNC completed heads for $1545 would be...I'd have to talk to him some too.
11-10-2003, 04:13 PM
#12
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im pretty much set on the afr 195cc lt4 comp ready heads.its a complete set of heads,everything for around 2450.when i get 3 grand its all going to afr.my plans are also a 383 stroker or a 355ci but the top end is going on first.
11-10-2003, 10:10 PM
#14
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Since you are building an NA 383 on (somewhat?) of a budget, I'd say that a well ported LT1 head from the likes of Ai would be the most effective way to go. The Ai heads go for ~$1750 at the moment I think. To get similar #'s out of an AFR casting, you would have to spend much much more, due to the purchase cost of the AFR castings themsleves, plus the costly porting on top of that.
The thick deck surface and cc size choices that the AFR's offer (in addition to more "meat" for porting) are the principal advantage of these castings. They really shine in a blower or other power adder application due to the increased flexibility they offer in these situations. These advantages become of much less signifigance in a relatively mild, NA street application such as yours.
I'd say that you should talk to Phil at Ai about your specific application and goals for your setup. It's really not hard at all to get ~430-440 rwhp out of a 383 with ported LT1's and a good custom hydraulic cam, and a good tune.
However, if your goals are above and beyond these aforementioned numbers, then the AFR's could be a viable, albeit costly, choice. Its your call.
BTW...IMO, the untouched stock LT1 intake manifold is probably more than sufficient for your application. The factory piece flows quite well. This is an area where you can just slap the stock one back on and save a few bucks if you so choose. Even with heavily ported heads, its not much of a bottleneck at all.
The thick deck surface and cc size choices that the AFR's offer (in addition to more "meat" for porting) are the principal advantage of these castings. They really shine in a blower or other power adder application due to the increased flexibility they offer in these situations. These advantages become of much less signifigance in a relatively mild, NA street application such as yours.
I'd say that you should talk to Phil at Ai about your specific application and goals for your setup. It's really not hard at all to get ~430-440 rwhp out of a 383 with ported LT1's and a good custom hydraulic cam, and a good tune.
However, if your goals are above and beyond these aforementioned numbers, then the AFR's could be a viable, albeit costly, choice. Its your call.
BTW...IMO, the untouched stock LT1 intake manifold is probably more than sufficient for your application. The factory piece flows quite well. This is an area where you can just slap the stock one back on and save a few bucks if you so choose. Even with heavily ported heads, its not much of a bottleneck at all.
Last edited by Z97LT1; 11-10-2003 at 10:15 PM.