Welcome to Camaro Z28!

Welcome to CamaroZ28.Com, the ultimate Source for Camaro enthusiasts! Here you can join over 90,000 Camaro enthusiasts from around the world discussing all things related to Camaros and more. You are currently viewing as a guest which gives you limited access to view discussions

To gain full access to our forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
  • Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from over 5 million posts.
  • Upload your Camaro details to your Garage
  • Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features
  • Gain access to our free marketplace to buy, sell and trade Camaros, parts and more.
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so join our community today today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact support.


Go Back   CamaroZ28.Com Message Board > 1967-2002 Powertrain Discussion > LT1 Based Engine Tech
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register Garage Photos Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Links Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Z28LiveVendor Directory


Reply Post New Thread
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-06-2005, 11:06 PM   #1
Registered User
 
AlwaysCode390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: STL
Posts: 925
Exclamation Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Hey Guys, I have been looking at cams and am trying to learn how two different cams with the same specs besides a 112 to 114 lobe separation degrees will act differently from one another. It seems like most people recommend the 114 for nos or a charger'? Why is that too?

Is the lt4 hotcam a good cam, its the most reasonable priced one and seems VERY close to the 305cc cam, but the lobe degree!!!

lt4= @.050 218/228 .525/.525 at 112 but has a 1,500 to 7,000rpm range!!!
305= 220/230 .510/.510 at 114 degrees, and is only good to 5,500rpm

They seem so close but actually I think I would prefer the lt4 ( which I NEVER hear anyone talk about on here and hear about the 305 ALL the time ).

I noticed my L79 327 is 222/222 .447/.447 at 114 and was confused at the 114 degree choice gm made with that cam too (considering I get her up to 6500 rpm all the time and its fine; opposite of the example above), please clear this up for me
This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on CamaroZ28.com!
__________________
90' Lingenfelter ZR-1 Corvette #699
91' SYCLONE AWD mini truck #512 {FS} 75k miles
01' Dodge VIPER GTS
03' Harley Davidson F-150 #577 {FS} 28k miles
AlwaysCode390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 11:17 PM   #2
Registered User
 
turbo_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,528
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

The wider the lobe seperation.. wider meaning the 114 vs the 112... would mean there is less overlap. Overlap is when the intake and exhaust valve is open at the same time so the exhaust valve starts to open before the intake valve is fully closed. As you can imagine in that situation some nitrous and boost would escape out the exhaust which is basically a waste of money and power.
__________________
1997 Z28 M6
340rwhp/340rwtq(before LE heads)
mods: loud exhaust and lopey idle
turbo_Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 11:22 PM   #3
Registered User
 
AlwaysCode390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: STL
Posts: 925
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Thanks , that cleared up the nos/boost question.....I appreciate it!!!!
__________________
90' Lingenfelter ZR-1 Corvette #699
91' SYCLONE AWD mini truck #512 {FS} 75k miles
01' Dodge VIPER GTS
03' Harley Davidson F-150 #577 {FS} 28k miles
AlwaysCode390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2005, 11:25 PM   #4
Super Moderator
 
Injuneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 41,010
Garage
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayscode
Thanks , that cleared up the nos/boost question.....I appreciate it!!!!
Actually, he cleared up the N2O/boost question. "NOS" is a specific brand name for a manufacturer of nitrous kits.
__________________
Fred

94 Formula A3+1: 381ci all-forged stroker - Callies Stealth, Oliver 5.85 billet rods, BME nitrous pistons / CNC LT4 heads / Comp Cams custom solid roller / TH400 + GearVendors OD / Strange 12-bolt - 4.11's / 300-shot N2O / Spohn suspension / 6-pt roll bar with integrated SFC's / AutoMeter instrumentation / MoTeC M48Pro engine management system / a few other odds 'n ends. 800HP/800LB-FT at the flywheel.
Injuneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 12:53 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Posts: 953
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Injuneer
"NOS" is a specific brand name for a manufacturer of nitrous kits.
Not when ya say it like this:

NAAAAAWWWWSSSSS

__________________
'97 Z28 Black T-top 6-spd - forged 383, CC XE224/230-112, ported heads, Crane Gold RR's, Comp 918's, Edelbrock headers & 52mmTB, 32lb Racetronix injectors, SLP CAI, Hurst shifter, McLeod ST, DMH cutout, AFS ZR1's with 17x11-315 rears, MT Street Radials at the track, UMI SFC's, LCA's, RLB's, TA, PCMForLess OBDI conversion & programming. 12.9@108 1.9 60' with major clutch issues.
'05 Blazer ZR2 4x4 - stock
Dave '97 Z28 M6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 12:55 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 935
Send a message via AIM to indieaz
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayscode
They seem so close but actually I think I would prefer the lt4 ( which I NEVER hear anyone talk about on here and hear about the 305 ALL the time ).
On the contrary...I have seen way more talk about the hotcam in my time than i have the cc305.
__________________
'11 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited 5.7 4x4
'06 Jeep Liberty Sport 3.7L 4x4
indieaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 01:11 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Posts: 953
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

A wider LSA is usually better for emmisions, everything else being equal. If that's a concern.
__________________
'97 Z28 Black T-top 6-spd - forged 383, CC XE224/230-112, ported heads, Crane Gold RR's, Comp 918's, Edelbrock headers & 52mmTB, 32lb Racetronix injectors, SLP CAI, Hurst shifter, McLeod ST, DMH cutout, AFS ZR1's with 17x11-315 rears, MT Street Radials at the track, UMI SFC's, LCA's, RLB's, TA, PCMForLess OBDI conversion & programming. 12.9@108 1.9 60' with major clutch issues.
'05 Blazer ZR2 4x4 - stock
Dave '97 Z28 M6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 01:53 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Bersaglieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 5,909
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayscode

lt4= @.050 218/228 .525/.525 at 112 but has a 1,500 to 7,000rpm range!!!
305= 220/230 .510/.510 at 114 degrees, and is only good to 5,500rpm
The CC305 is slighty bigger than the Hotcam, you should also know that the lift on the CC305 you have listed is with 1.5 ratio rockers and the Hotcam it listed with 1.6 ratio rockers. I dont know how many folks rev a Hotcam to 7k though. I dont know if it makes useable power that high. Many folks with GM 847's dont even rev that high. The Hotcam and CC305 would probably make good power to 6000-6200. But I am by no means a cam expert, so dont quote me. Another one I like is just slightly larger than the CC305 is the GM 846 [ 222/230 .509/.528 (1.5 Rockers) 112LSA ] Its pretty rare compared to the other two, but seems like it would be a good investment for the range your looking at.

-Dustin-
__________________
1994 Z28 - 6.27L - 4L80 - 9"
1995 Z28 - 5.7L - T56
1995 Vette - 5.7L - ZF6 - Dana44
LTXtech.com

Last edited by Bersaglieri; 07-07-2005 at 01:57 AM.
Bersaglieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 02:09 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bahrain
Posts: 1,152
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

A tighter LSA cam will produce better torque accross the rpm range with the expense of low rpm drivability. For the wider LSA cams (with same or similler duration), a few lb.ft are lost accross the range but what is gained is a more civil driver.
And no way will a hot cam rev that high.
__________________
97 SS (ME1), A4, 396, LT4s by LE, Joe O. cam, hooker lt, Mufflex 4" w/spintech + y pipe, BMR k-member, Spohn TA & drag rear sway bar, Hotchkis sfc, BMR lca and adjustable PHB, QA1 struts/springs, Vig 3600, Moser 12 bolt with 3.73, LTCC, lt1-edit, 15x10/15x3.5 draglites.
96 Caprice SS (Daily driver), 218/226 custom cam, LT4 ED timing set, 1.6 RR, Afterburner headers, TFS intake elbow, energy suspension.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2173457
sssalah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 09:04 AM   #10
Registered User
 
AlwaysCode390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: STL
Posts: 925
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Thank you guys very much. Bergsaglieri you have been awesome bro. I didnt realize the spec difference from the hotcam to the cc was at a different rocker ratio!!!! That changes alot. I am also greatful for the 846 suggestion because I wanted something hotter than the 305 but not as wild as the 306!!!!
__________________
90' Lingenfelter ZR-1 Corvette #699
91' SYCLONE AWD mini truck #512 {FS} 75k miles
01' Dodge VIPER GTS
03' Harley Davidson F-150 #577 {FS} 28k miles
AlwaysCode390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 09:07 AM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Moore OK
Posts: 2,187
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwayscode
Thank you guys very much. Bergsaglieri you have been awesome bro. I didnt realize the spec difference from the hotcam to the cc was at a different rocker ratio!!!! That changes alot. I am also greatful for the 846 suggestion because I wanted something hotter than the 305 but not as wild as the 306!!!!

306 with a tune is not wild by any means. I can't believe how often people say that. Yes you have to spin it a little higher (I only go to 6300ish) but it is very streetable. Shoot, my m6 idles at 650 with no issues. Brakes work, never stalls on me, and pisses off Harley guys.
__________________
2005 CTS-V - Torquer V3 - PRC Dual Springs - No More POS 918s - Pacesetter Long Tubes - Muffler Delete - Volant Intake - UMI Motor CS Diff Bushings
95 Z28 m6 / MP-T70 / EDIS8 / megaSQUIRT / LC-1 / No Opti
jsetzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 09:14 AM   #12
Registered User
 
AlwaysCode390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: STL
Posts: 925
Question Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Injuneer
Actually, he cleared up the N2O/boost question. "NOS" is a specific brand name for a manufacturer of nitrous kits.
LOL, thanks Its the same as saying "I want a coke" and getting a sams club cola, or saying "I need a kleenex" and using Target brand tissue, lol!!!

Jsetzer, well the 306 is an option then , hahha......my main goal is a LUMPY lopy sounding cam and you seem to have made me think thats the one to go with?! How do those cams run with a shot of n2o?! I noticed they are 112 degree and not 114 degree. How much is JUST porting from LLOYD and not the entire cam/porting package.....or do YOU think his custom cam will work better with his porting?! Thanks---

EDIT: I'm a noob and hear the WILD 306 from alot of people, so its good to get things straight from a real 306 driver
__________________
90' Lingenfelter ZR-1 Corvette #699
91' SYCLONE AWD mini truck #512 {FS} 75k miles
01' Dodge VIPER GTS
03' Harley Davidson F-150 #577 {FS} 28k miles

Last edited by AlwaysCode390; 07-07-2005 at 09:17 AM.
AlwaysCode390 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2005, 09:47 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Bersaglieri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 5,909
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

If you are considering doing just the cam and nothing more you'll want to talk to Bret Bauer AKA SStrokerAce. He makes custom cams on this board for members, including Lloyds packages. He is the camshaft voodoo Doctor.

-Dustin-
__________________
1994 Z28 - 6.27L - 4L80 - 9"
1995 Z28 - 5.7L - T56
1995 Vette - 5.7L - ZF6 - Dana44
LTXtech.com
Bersaglieri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2005, 12:17 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: smog zone adjacent to a great lake
Posts: 1,462
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

It has become popular (on this forum anyway) to grant LCA a lot of importance. LCA, or what more may recognize as LSA means virtually NOTHIN'. To attempt to characterize or describe a cam based on LCA is pointless and meaningless, because it is inaccurate to do so. That number is little more than a 'product' of more important 'events', namely intake/exhaust opening and closing. The reason it is meaningless, is because the same LCA can be achieved using different valve open/close numbers, and THAT change can really change the personality of a cam. A good example, would be to compare the OEM LT1 F body cam, to the OEM LT1 B body cam. That has been done here before, in an attempt at clarifying the true value of the LSA figure. Hell, you may as well use it (LSA) as a catalog #, as it has about the same value. As I see it, if the majority prefer to describe cams by LSA, you may as well go back to the 50s/60s mentality and label cams via buzz words like '3/4 race' or 'full race'. Once you become familiar with cam timing events, you won't put the emphasis on LCA/LSA when describing cams. Of the various aspects of a cam, (IO/C, EO/C, OL, ICL, duration, LSA/LCA carries the least weight.

It may be easier for the novice, to describe a cam via the LSA, and easier to understand, compared to the other aspects, but it is also the poorest method of identifying the character of a cam. BTW, the one 'product' of the valve 'events' that can be considered of importance would be valve overlap.

Seeing that I'm going for the throat, I may as well hit the jugular. It is also popular/accepted to focus in on the intake opening event. To me, that is like giving most of the credit to the quarterback. Without the line to block, the quarterback wouldn't have much time to do what he is expected to do. Yes, the IO is important, but so are the other 3 events. Without those postioned correctly, the IO can do only so much.
__________________
Da mind...can be a terrible ting!
"This is a republic, NOT a democracy- let's keep it that way!" Hmmm.... don't know the diff?
There is power in knowledge, which is essential in removing the 'matrix'..

Last edited by arnie; 07-09-2005 at 07:34 AM.
arnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2005, 12:48 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Jameslt1TA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,152
Re: Cam lobe separation degrees, difference from 112 to 114?!

305 and hotcam = waste of time in my opinion unless you want a car that idles about like stock and doesn't have as much potention. I know people have gone far on them and they are good cams but the 306 is better and with a good tune it will be fairly tame but still provide a very nice lumpy idle. Oh ya and stay the hell away from those xe grinds i hated my old 230/236 my new setup will be with a 306.
__________________
'95 Trans am-Forged 355, ai heads, joe o cam, swapping into my dads 73 Camaro
'97 Camaro-355, afr 210s, gt-42 76mm, fast c-com, spec stage 4
'07 Dodge megacab Cummins Bullydog Pmt, straight piped
'11 1SS Camaro 20'' wheels, M6
Jameslt1TA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2005, 12:48 AM
 
Reply Post New Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Copyright © 1996-2013 CamaroZ28.Com. All rights reserved.