Window Regulator & Motor Replacement Project
04-26-2009, 06:11 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 32
Window Regulator & Motor Replacement Project
I have read a lot of threads about window motor problems and I wanted to start a thread about my experiences.
I have a 2002 camaro with 12k miles and when I purchased it from the first owner with 500 miles on it 4 years ago it had a slow passengers side window. I know that the 1st owner had GM replace the passergers side motor under warranty. Why they didn't just replace the entire regulator and motor together I still wonder why. Which brings me to about 1 year ago when the motor began to act up by running slowly then stopping altogether. Same problem I have read about others having. So I replaced the motor and it fixed the problem for about 1 year. Window began running slow and eventually stopped working when I needed it to. Faced with another motor replacement I decided to replace the regulator and motor together. Dorman sells the regulator and motor together for both drivers and passengers side windows (lifetime warranty). I drilled out the 4 pop rivets and unbolted the regulator with motor together. You will need two people to do this repair. Removed the regulator and motor from the door and replaced it with the new unit from Dorman. Bolted it back to the door and pop riveted the regulator to the door (1/4" pop rivets). $10 rivet kit from Harbor Freight. Now I spent some time getting the tracks aligned so the front and rear of the window rolled up/down together. A hole in the end of the door provided a great way to view the operation of the window from the inside. The new regulator and motor are now installed and I hope to have fixed the window problem. I knoticed that the motor got really, really hot after a few min of up and down testing. So I would avoid long testing and a easy way to check is to put your hand over the motor inside the door and if it feels like your hand is about to get a 1st degree burn better wait for it to cool down.
I decided to go the route of replacing the regulator and motor instead of getting another motor under warranty because of a idea I had that the regulator was bad. Before readjusting the window track I observed the front stopped well before the rear did. I had marked the bolts before removing them so I would put them back in the original locations. I believe a mis aligned track was causing undo stress on the motor thus causing it to fail. I have also now added the express down module to the passengers side. I wanted to pass along my experience to the forum in hopes it my offer someone help with a window problem another alternative to replacing motors every year or two. Only time will tell if this really fixed the window problem. I will repost to this thread if the window fails again.
Thanks!
Update:
The new motor is making a wining noise, sometimes. It is still slower than the drivers side window. If the motor keeps making the weard noise I am going to pull the regulator/motor out and get it replaced under the lifetime warranty.
6/9/09
So the motor is still making a bad noise when I roll up the window. I will be replacing the whole regulator/motor assembly under warranty. I will report back after I complete the replacement.
6/12/09
I replaced the regulator and motor again. Two areas I found needed adjustment. One was the tilt angle of the window. The tilt angle (my name) I needed to adjust the two rear nuts with alen head screws. I adjusted the tilt by loosing the nuts and backing off the allen screws then shutting the door and adjusting the screws until they made contact with the inside of the door. I then installed the two nuts and tightened. If you are trying to fix bad window motors you need to check the tilt of the window as too much pressure slows the motor and eventually causes it to stop. You should also loosen the side mirrors before adjusting the rear tilt and the reason is the window should contact the door seal front and rear almost together. Front side of the window touching first then 1/8" later the rear touched was my final setting. It allowed for even pressure against the door seal. I think I might have caused the first two motors to fail because too much pressure between the window and the door seal. Now the motor rolls the window up and down much faster.
I have a 2002 camaro with 12k miles and when I purchased it from the first owner with 500 miles on it 4 years ago it had a slow passengers side window. I know that the 1st owner had GM replace the passergers side motor under warranty. Why they didn't just replace the entire regulator and motor together I still wonder why. Which brings me to about 1 year ago when the motor began to act up by running slowly then stopping altogether. Same problem I have read about others having. So I replaced the motor and it fixed the problem for about 1 year. Window began running slow and eventually stopped working when I needed it to. Faced with another motor replacement I decided to replace the regulator and motor together. Dorman sells the regulator and motor together for both drivers and passengers side windows (lifetime warranty). I drilled out the 4 pop rivets and unbolted the regulator with motor together. You will need two people to do this repair. Removed the regulator and motor from the door and replaced it with the new unit from Dorman. Bolted it back to the door and pop riveted the regulator to the door (1/4" pop rivets). $10 rivet kit from Harbor Freight. Now I spent some time getting the tracks aligned so the front and rear of the window rolled up/down together. A hole in the end of the door provided a great way to view the operation of the window from the inside. The new regulator and motor are now installed and I hope to have fixed the window problem. I knoticed that the motor got really, really hot after a few min of up and down testing. So I would avoid long testing and a easy way to check is to put your hand over the motor inside the door and if it feels like your hand is about to get a 1st degree burn better wait for it to cool down.
I decided to go the route of replacing the regulator and motor instead of getting another motor under warranty because of a idea I had that the regulator was bad. Before readjusting the window track I observed the front stopped well before the rear did. I had marked the bolts before removing them so I would put them back in the original locations. I believe a mis aligned track was causing undo stress on the motor thus causing it to fail. I have also now added the express down module to the passengers side. I wanted to pass along my experience to the forum in hopes it my offer someone help with a window problem another alternative to replacing motors every year or two. Only time will tell if this really fixed the window problem. I will repost to this thread if the window fails again.
Thanks!
Update:
The new motor is making a wining noise, sometimes. It is still slower than the drivers side window. If the motor keeps making the weard noise I am going to pull the regulator/motor out and get it replaced under the lifetime warranty.
6/9/09
So the motor is still making a bad noise when I roll up the window. I will be replacing the whole regulator/motor assembly under warranty. I will report back after I complete the replacement.
6/12/09
I replaced the regulator and motor again. Two areas I found needed adjustment. One was the tilt angle of the window. The tilt angle (my name) I needed to adjust the two rear nuts with alen head screws. I adjusted the tilt by loosing the nuts and backing off the allen screws then shutting the door and adjusting the screws until they made contact with the inside of the door. I then installed the two nuts and tightened. If you are trying to fix bad window motors you need to check the tilt of the window as too much pressure slows the motor and eventually causes it to stop. You should also loosen the side mirrors before adjusting the rear tilt and the reason is the window should contact the door seal front and rear almost together. Front side of the window touching first then 1/8" later the rear touched was my final setting. It allowed for even pressure against the door seal. I think I might have caused the first two motors to fail because too much pressure between the window and the door seal. Now the motor rolls the window up and down much faster.
Last edited by A35TH-SS; 06-12-2009 at 08:05 PM.
03-13-2010, 08:03 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 69
The reason for the burnouts is that the motors are underpowered, the best fix is to supply the proper power to the motor. I have to reinstall my drivers side regulator assembly since the original one finally broke a few teeth. later I will replace the passenger motor as it was acting up, and then do this rewiring. Fortunatly I already have a new fuseblock installed in my engine bay for the HID projector lighting system,
Stolen from the Fuelslut site..
I question the wisdom of putting 87A to ground... seems like asking for a fuse to go POP! 87/87A both have 12v out, it just depends on the switch controlling which blade. Don't use a 5pin, use a 4pin relay, or a 5 and ignore 87A instructions.
Stolen from the Fuelslut site..
I finally got the pinout for this mod (thanx John). This mod will solve the issue of the constant failing window motors in late model F-Body's. The reason they fail is because the motors are under-powered from the factory; around 10v on the drivers side and 8v on the passenger side. This will make sure both sides get a full 12v+ at all times. If your window motors are already dying, this might give them new life, but they'll probably eventually fail. If you replace them w/ this mod, they should last forever (in theory). 
Relay Number 1:
30 – To Window Motor Brown Wire
85 – Chassis Ground
86 – To Window Switch Brown Wire
87 – Battery +12 Volts
87a – Chassis Ground
Relay Number 2:
30 – To Window Motor Blue Wire
85 – Chassis Ground
86 – To Window Switch Blue Wire
87 – Battery +12 Volts
87a – Chassis Ground
Required Supplies:
Four 5 pin Automotive Relays http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...=24-76058574-2
Two 35ft spools of 10 AWG Wire http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062650 / http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062649
Two ATC Fuse Holders http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...A|GRP2020A____
Two 30A ATC Fuses
Wire Ring Terminals, Disconnect Ends, Wire Nuts, Heat Shrink Tubing
Ok, so basically connect the proper wire to the pin on each Relay. Each door gets 2 relays, and both driver & passenger sides are wired the exact same. You WILL retain the auto down feature on the driver’s side. I recommend soldering and heat-shrinking everything, but I suppose you could use crimp connects. It’s really personal preference. And you’ll want to place the fuse in the engine bay as close to the battery as you can. When you’re done tidy up your wires and tuck everything under the kick panel on either side.
Relay Number 1:
30 – To Window Motor Brown Wire
85 – Chassis Ground
86 – To Window Switch Brown Wire
87 – Battery +12 Volts
87a – Chassis Ground
Relay Number 2:
30 – To Window Motor Blue Wire
85 – Chassis Ground
86 – To Window Switch Blue Wire
87 – Battery +12 Volts
87a – Chassis Ground
Required Supplies:
Four 5 pin Automotive Relays http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...=24-76058574-2
Two 35ft spools of 10 AWG Wire http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062650 / http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062649
Two ATC Fuse Holders http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...A|GRP2020A____
Two 30A ATC Fuses
Wire Ring Terminals, Disconnect Ends, Wire Nuts, Heat Shrink Tubing
Ok, so basically connect the proper wire to the pin on each Relay. Each door gets 2 relays, and both driver & passenger sides are wired the exact same. You WILL retain the auto down feature on the driver’s side. I recommend soldering and heat-shrinking everything, but I suppose you could use crimp connects. It’s really personal preference. And you’ll want to place the fuse in the engine bay as close to the battery as you can. When you’re done tidy up your wires and tuck everything under the kick panel on either side.
Last edited by NOVA5; 03-13-2010 at 08:09 AM.
03-13-2010, 11:44 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Daytona Beach/Jax, Florida
Posts: 415
It wont work if you dont ground 87a. It uses both relays together, just one is energized going up and the other going down.
And it makes a big difference from factory speed.
And it makes a big difference from factory speed.
Last edited by Chevyssoccer; 03-13-2010 at 11:48 AM.
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