john j oliver

I've got a 95 Camaro and have been replacing the RAP module, window motors, and the Express Power Down module on a regular basis because of the darn erratic power windows behavior. I've replaced the motors on both windows at least twice including lubricating the channels. They would work fine for a while then start acting erratically, sometime working sometimes not. Eventually replacing the RAP seems to help for a while. I had thought it may have been the power draw from my upgraded stereo so I directly wired it to the battery post bypassing the RAP. Still, they miss behave after time. My question is "Has anyone directly hot wired the power windows so they could work all the time?" I am not too concerned that they work with the ignition off as I got other security prevention measures. Would be interested in running power directly from the battery terminals located on the fender well thereby getting full voltage to the motors. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

GaryDoug

I can't think of a strong reason not to do that. The Express Down module will be drawing power all the time, so there is that consideration. Make sure to compare the "Ignition OFF" battery current drain before and after the modification.

john j oliver

No arguments here. After thinking about it, it may be better to have the one power source connected to the ignition on and the other to the battery terminal. But I'm still looking for someone that has done this or has some ideas on how I can do it. I'm not too concerned about the express power down and can live with out it. My issues is getting the windows to work when you ask them too. I'm currently searching for aftermarket products but still would like to have someone chime in if it can be done using the existing wiring perhaps by passing the retain accessory power (RAP) or express power down (EPD). I've think I've replaced the RAP almost every year since I've bought the car brand new. And the local GM dealer say it either high current or low voltage. Thanks.

94_6speedZ

I replaced window motors every few years in my camaro. Even the new ones would be slow.

So I rewired my drivers side power window switch to eliminate/bypass the express down module. I put a new motor in at the same time. But the window now goes up and down at an acceptable rate. I believe they will never be fast due to the size and shape of the glass with the window motor used.

It has been two years since I did that and my window still rolls up and down just fine.

-Greg

john j oliver

Thanks Greg,
Do you recall how you did that? I am all ears.

94_6speedZ

That is an excellent question. I was trying to remember how i did it as i was typing.

First I used a wiring schematic for the power windows, courtesy of Shoebox's website: http://shbox.com/1/pwr_window_schematic.jpg

The wiring comes through the door grommet to the switch, back through the door grommet to the express down module, then back through the door grommet again to the window motor. I wanted to eliminate all that wiring. I did this all inside of the door.

Looking at the schematic, I found the DK BLU wire from the switch and the DK BLU wire running to the motor. I cut both of those and soldered them directly together (may have added a jumper wire, don't remember).

Next I found the GRY wire from the switch and the BRN wire running to the motor. I cut both of those and soldered them directly together also (again, may have used a jumper wire).

That will bypass the express down module.

I hope that helps.
-Greg

john j oliver

I'm not an electrical engineer but in looking at the power window diagram, I am thinking you can do the same without even taking the door panel off. I am thinking you can take the Express Down Module out and put a jumper between the grey and brown wires. It may be the same for the RAP module. I think I'll print these off and go see my favorite GM tech guy. I will let you know. Thanks for your help.

94_6speedZ

Yes, you can do that from inside of the car. I was upgrading my speakers when i decided to eliminate the express down module. So my door panel was already off.

-Greg

john j oliver

Wanted to give an update on my findings
1) After visiting my local GM dealer and some emails later; you can bypass the Retain Accessory Power RAP and the Express Down Module EDM by disconnecting them and doing the following on the connector:
For the RAP jump A to B to D. (Pink to dark blue to brown)
For the EDM jump D to E. (Brown to Gray).
Caveat: This information came from two reliable sources. Ie. My local GM service/shop manager and Rob at shbox. They also said that you will lose some operative ability like the low coolant indicator control latching (check your coolant light) and there may be more. Try this at your own risk. I have not done this yet.
2) I also found an aftermarket fix for the windows and a nice write up at ls1.com. Autotrix window fix in pics apparently the issues is so common that the aftermarket has an over the counter fix.
3) I have not done any of these options as of today. Early this AM, I replace the RAP module and my windows are currently working. I suspect in time, I will be going to the aftermarket fix.
Thanks John

GaryDoug

It seems like a better way is to keep the RAP module and just bypass the window/radio relay. Cut the blue wire at terminal B and splice it (free end not connected to the connector) into the brown wire at terminal D. I suspect the other way is for folks not wanting to buy a new RAP module.

john j oliver

I'm not sure that would work. If you cut D brown above the connector which is the main power and cut B blue above the connector and splice the two together, you would get power to the radio and windows but then there would be no power to the RAP. Or am I way off base? Thanks

GaryDoug

I did not say to cut the brown wire. I said to cut the blue wire and splice the free end to the brown wire. You would leave the brown wire connected. Also, use a hefty method of splicing, not a push-in wire tap. because the current drain is significant.

john j oliver

Ahhhh gotcha. Now I see what you are doing. I guess that would work very nicely. The power to the radio and window would bypass the RAP and you can keep the RAP in place. Thanks for the idea. Good thinking.