General 1967-2002 F-Body Tech For general F-Body discussion that does not fit in any other forum.
For F-Body Technical/Information Discussion ONLY

Ls3 Vs 302

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-12-2007, 11:09 AM
  #61  
Registered User
 
Marc 85Z28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: MD
Posts: 2,022
Originally Posted by jg95z28
As Charlie said, "No argument there". My only goal was to point out the 302 cid Z/28s weren't as slow as some people think they were.
Nor were they as fast as many "remember" them to be...
Marc 85Z28 is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:23 AM
  #62  
Registered User
 
XcYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28
Nor were they as fast as many "remember" them to be...
Old school technology must make you nervous, why else would you be so worried about it. lol
XcYZ is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:49 AM
  #63  
Registered User
 
jg95z28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
Originally Posted by XcYZ
Old school technology must make you nervous, why else would you be so worried about it. lol

jg95z28 is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 02:01 PM
  #64  
Registered User
 
Marc 85Z28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: MD
Posts: 2,022
Originally Posted by XcYZ
Old school technology must make you nervous, why else would you be so worried about it. lol
I have a low-mid 12 second Qjet powered 355 in my 85 Z28, using out of the box World Products S/R heads and highway gearing. No worries here, just a dose of reality for the old folks, as age seems to have distorted memories of the past. Everyone over 40 I know who had a fast car back in the day tells me all about them on a consistent basis. Too bad the ETs aren't consistent, as the older they get, the faster their cars were

And if old technology is that great, why put a modern LS7 in your Camaro?

Last edited by Marc 85Z28; 07-12-2007 at 02:24 PM.
Marc 85Z28 is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 03:13 PM
  #65  
Registered User
 
XcYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28
And if old technology is that great, why put a modern LS7 in your Camaro?
LOL, where did I say that old technology is that great? I just get a kick out of how you just can't let this topic go. It's like you're on a mission from God.
XcYZ is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 03:37 PM
  #66  
Registered User
 
Marc 85Z28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: MD
Posts: 2,022
Originally Posted by XcYZ
LOL, where did I say that old technology is that great? I just get a kick out of how you just can't let this topic go. It's like you're on a mission from God.
Read my above post... I regularly get all sorts of BS from most of my fathers friends, to the point where my ears bleed. Morons in this thread posting the same false information and spreading inaccuracies irritate me.
And well, if correcting those spreading inaccurate information about the past, and pointing out the hypocrites in the crowd makes me on a mission from God, so be it.
Marc 85Z28 is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 03:41 PM
  #67  
Registered User
 
XcYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 148
Did it ever occur to you that they're just yanking your chain just so they can watch you run around in circles trying to convince them how "wrong" they are?

Edit: That's why I got involved with this thread in the first place. It's actually pretty funny.
XcYZ is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 04:06 PM
  #68  
Registered User
 
jg95z28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28
Morons in this thread posting the same false information and spreading inaccuracies irritate me.
Well if the shoe fits...

I never said one inaccuracy. I only showed evidence where back in 1967 a Z/28 with nothing more than 7-in slicks and an uncorked exhaust did 12.38s in the 1/4-mi. You and several others claimed this and other examples were BS despite evidence to the contrary.
jg95z28 is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 04:17 PM
  #69  
Admin Emeritus
 
JasonD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Nashville, TN area
Posts: 11,157
Clean it up, guys.
JasonD is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 07:34 AM
  #70  
Registered User
 
LeadSled1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Earleville, MD
Posts: 182
Arrow

Originally Posted by jg95z28

There's also this on a 67 Z/28 from the same website...


That's high 13's (13.88s at 105mpg) straight off the showroom floor with 4.10 gears and street tires. He later managed 12.38 @ 112mph with open headers and 7-inch slicks. 12 second cars in the late 60's was extremely fast.

Originally Posted by jg95z28

I never said one inaccuracy. I only showed evidence where back in 1967 a Z/28 with nothing more than 7-in slicks and an uncorked exhaust did 12.38s in the 1/4-mi. You and several others claimed this and other examples were BS despite evidence to the contrary.

Directly from the page you are pulling your info. You are completely inaccurate:

OUR NEW RESTORATION PROJECT, A VERY SPECIAL 1967 Z/28

On one of the first outings to the drag strip, Ray took the Z/28 up to 75-80 Dragway in Monrovia, Maryland. In bone stock condition, this Camaro ran in the high 13-second zone at 105 mph. This is when the car had approximately 1800 miles on the odometer! Ray stated that the car needed more gear as he was going through the finish line in 3rd gear. The perfect choice would have been 5.38 rear end gears if this Z/28 was a dedicated race car.



On August 12, 1968, Ray was drafted into the service. Ray's dad, also a Walter Ray Fairall, cared for the car while Ray Jr. did his hitch in the Army. Over that two-year period, Ray's dad took care of the maintenance on the car and occasionally street raced from stop light to stop light with the locals. Ray Jr. had told me that his mom was always upset when dad took the Camaro out for a spin. Seems he was always hot rodding the Camaro on the street through the neighborhood. Why not? He was driving a factory-built race car that would become legendary in the world of Trans-Am racing and NHRA drag racing by the end of the decade!

When Ray Jr. returned home from the service in August of 1970, the Z/28 Camaro became more of a dedicated hot rod rather than his everyday transportation. Eventually, the engine was removed and taken to "Little Howard", a local engine builder that had an excellent reputation for building NHRA drag racing engines. When the engine was reinstalled, performance gains were off the charts.

It was the Fall of 1970 when I first met Ray Fairall. We were both at Capital Raceway in Crofton, Maryland during a time trial session. I was racing my new 1969 SS396 Chevelle. I remember our first meeting like it was yesterday. Ray's Tahoe turquoise paint and white Z/28 stripes hit you right between the eyes. In those days, the only Camaros you saw with Z/28 stripes were actual Z/28s. As we know, in later years everyone installed Z stripes on all Camaros. Back then Z/28 stripes were different and unique.

What amazed me was the performance out of that little 302 engine. I had this big new 396-375 horsepower Chevelle. In those days, we ran seven-inch rear slicks and open headers. Capital Raceway had a bracket racing program for all of the locals like Ray and myself. If you had a 12-second car in those days, that was fast! I was running in the 12s, but so was that little 302. This is where I really had a reality check as to just how bad these new Z/28s were!



The car had a motor built for the track when it ran in the 12s.

12s were run 3 years later in 1970, not 1967.

It also had suspension (spring shackles) when it ran the high 13s.




Also from the site:

Photos taken near the old Friendship Airport, now BWI Airport when car was less than a few months old. Some were taken at the Westinghouse parking lot near the airport. Note the spring shackles added to the rear leaf springs.

I'm not taking away anything from Ray's/Jerry's car but your doing some selective reading there.
LeadSled1 is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 08:45 AM
  #71  
Registered User
 
jg95z28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
Originally Posted by LeadSled1
I'm not taking away anything from Ray's/Jerry's car but your doing some selective reading there.
Give me a break. Yes, I totally missed the part about the 12s passes being on the built motor. My fault. (I honestly didn't see it.) However all the spring shackles will do is minimize wheel-hop, the motor remains stock on the 13s passes.
jg95z28 is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 08:56 AM
  #72  
Registered User
 
Capn Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
Have you guys stopped and thought about considering the WEIGHT difference between a 1st-gen and a 4th-gen as well??? To run 13.88 @ 104 "STOCK" in a 1st-gen vs. a 4th-gen doesn't require as much power. 1st-gen's weighed what, around ~3200-3300 lbs?? Add AT LEAST ~200 lbs to that for the 4th-gen, and now you've got a ~14.0 second car ..... that's more like LT1 territory, which, last time I checked, was rated somewhere around ~285 HP, which, "surprise, surprise" is very close to that 290 HP rating of the 302!!!

Yeah, old memories can be a little foggy (and delusional ) sometimes!!!
Capn Pete is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 09:05 AM
  #73  
Registered User
 
LeadSled1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Earleville, MD
Posts: 182
Wheel hop on launch has a major impact on a cars ET. But I will give you a break on that one.

I've been waiting for someone to fire back with this one but nothing yet:

For you Camaro enthusiasts who love original unrestored cars, you'll love our original paint Ermine White'68 Z/28 with only 22,000 original miles showing on the odometer! This 1968 Z28 is the only one known to exist with all of the factory installed high performance options and full documentation to back it up.

It features some of the rarest and most desirable options ever offered on a 1968 Z/28...cowl plenum air cleaner assembly, factory Kustom headers, Muncie M/22 "rock crusher" 4-speed , 4.88 posi rear axle, 8-track tape player, console, gauges, wood steering wheel, auxiliary lighting, tinted windshield, floor mats, style trim group, special interior group, AM radio and rear defogger are just a few of the options on this fully documented Z/28. Oh, by the way, this Z/28 is still sporting its original plug wires.

In 1993, we took this Z28 to 75-80 Dragway. In bone stock condition, we ran 12.90s at 108 mph through the mufflers on street tires. If you don't believe it's a factory built rocket ship, ask some of our customers who have ridden in the "white rocket." One of the most fun Z28s you will ever drive
http://www.z28camaro.com/unrest68.html



Pretty cool. Not some 400 hp monster but a 12 second stock car none the less.


LeadSled1 is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 10:27 AM
  #74  
Registered User
 
96LT1TX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,035
now THAT is impressive. 12.9s@108? Must of been some serious 60's, Look at those options that came on it stock? I wish they would sell a car like that these days.
96LT1TX is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:00 PM
  #75  
Registered User
 
Z284ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Thread summary to follow:

1) Early Z/28's were badass cars.

2) Their 302's were severely and purposely underrated.

3) Even today, some people still believe that rating describes it's output.

4) 302 Z/28's have gotten into the 12's - bone stock, but more commonly were 14 second cars.

5) Short of the current LS7, the LS3 will be the meanest motor ever released by Chevy. Better than previous Z/28 powerplants, better than anything including the ZL1.
Z284ever is offline  


Quick Reply: Ls3 Vs 302



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:27 PM.