Leaded fuel
08-07-2005, 09:42 PM
#16
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manhattan, KS
Posts: 266
Re: Leaded fuel
Stick with pump gas 93. You don't need race gas or octane boosters
A .15 of a second E/T can easily be made with better driving one day compared to another, track prep, weather, your launch, tire wear, etc. Hell, if a lot of cars were running with street tires for a while, that'll hurt the 60'. Not trying to be mean, but I seriously doubt race gas is helping you out any, especially since your engine is fairly stock
A .15 of a second E/T can easily be made with better driving one day compared to another, track prep, weather, your launch, tire wear, etc. Hell, if a lot of cars were running with street tires for a while, that'll hurt the 60'. Not trying to be mean, but I seriously doubt race gas is helping you out any, especially since your engine is fairly stock
08-07-2005, 09:59 PM
#17
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Milton, FL
Posts: 3,604
Re: Leaded fuel
also keep in mind that most of the time higher octane fuels, such as leaded, will not mix evenly with normal pump fuel.
whats this mean? well lets just say you can be flying down the 1/4 at WOT on the higher octane when the pump sucks in a patch of unmixed lower octane ...
oh well, ignore everyone here if you wish, its your money.
whats this mean? well lets just say you can be flying down the 1/4 at WOT on the higher octane when the pump sucks in a patch of unmixed lower octane ...
oh well, ignore everyone here if you wish, its your money.
08-07-2005, 10:15 PM
#18
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Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,648
Re: Leaded fuel
A few things posted in the various posts above that simply are questionable:
If he gets AC Delco O2s they are $70 each
$35 each from the usual sources recommended regularly on this forum.
Your injectors would probably clog up,
No. I've been running VP Fuels C16, with 6 grams/gallon of lead for more than 5 years. My 64# Bosch injectors are fine.
Lead makes the gas thicker, and reduced knock considerably.
No. The amount of "lead" added is miniscule.... typically anywhere from 1 to 6 grams/gallon. At 3gr/gal, that’s one gram of (tetraethyl) lead for every 1,000 grams of gasoline. Does not make anything "thicker".
Higher octane gasoline….. takes more heat/energy to ignite.
No. Octane is a measurement of the fuel's tendency to form "end gasses"..... products of the chemical change that takes place in the presence of intense heat and pressure.... that will auto-ignite, forming a second flame front. Fuel doesn't resist detonation because it takes more energy to ignite. It's because it does not form compounds that auto-ignite.
It’s a myth that high octane fuel burns slower. Not necessarily. Depends on the actual components of the blend, but it can safely be said the octane does not correlate to burn speed or energy content.
For more facts, and less myth, try reading the 60-odd pages of this reference document, noting in particular Section 6 on "octane".
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/
I've run many drums of leaded fuel through my setup. I still have my stock O2 sensors in place, mainly to plug the holes in the headers. I run an open loop tune, so I don’t need them for any other purpose. But I am still able to monitor the O2 sensors, and one of them is still indicating accurate voltage readings, while the other has gradually deteriorated. And I have no way to tell if they have slowed down, but I suspect they have.
I saw a test about a year ago of some new NGK "lead tolerant" O2 sensors. They put 2 of them in a car, and one of them died almost immediately on exposure to leaded fuel. The other worked fine. They replaced the one that died, and both seemed to be able to tolerate lead exposure. NGK claims that they will withstand twice the lead exposure of "conventional" sensors. Point is, they may last or they may not, and you won't know when one of them is slowing down or losing its accuracy. Why risk it? Particularly when the “gains” are probably no more than the placebo effect.
Why would they "not mix evenly"? You lost me completely on that one.
If he gets AC Delco O2s they are $70 each
$35 each from the usual sources recommended regularly on this forum.
Your injectors would probably clog up,
No. I've been running VP Fuels C16, with 6 grams/gallon of lead for more than 5 years. My 64# Bosch injectors are fine.
Lead makes the gas thicker, and reduced knock considerably.
No. The amount of "lead" added is miniscule.... typically anywhere from 1 to 6 grams/gallon. At 3gr/gal, that’s one gram of (tetraethyl) lead for every 1,000 grams of gasoline. Does not make anything "thicker".
Higher octane gasoline….. takes more heat/energy to ignite.
No. Octane is a measurement of the fuel's tendency to form "end gasses"..... products of the chemical change that takes place in the presence of intense heat and pressure.... that will auto-ignite, forming a second flame front. Fuel doesn't resist detonation because it takes more energy to ignite. It's because it does not form compounds that auto-ignite.
It’s a myth that high octane fuel burns slower. Not necessarily. Depends on the actual components of the blend, but it can safely be said the octane does not correlate to burn speed or energy content.
For more facts, and less myth, try reading the 60-odd pages of this reference document, noting in particular Section 6 on "octane".
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/
I've run many drums of leaded fuel through my setup. I still have my stock O2 sensors in place, mainly to plug the holes in the headers. I run an open loop tune, so I don’t need them for any other purpose. But I am still able to monitor the O2 sensors, and one of them is still indicating accurate voltage readings, while the other has gradually deteriorated. And I have no way to tell if they have slowed down, but I suspect they have.
I saw a test about a year ago of some new NGK "lead tolerant" O2 sensors. They put 2 of them in a car, and one of them died almost immediately on exposure to leaded fuel. The other worked fine. They replaced the one that died, and both seemed to be able to tolerate lead exposure. NGK claims that they will withstand twice the lead exposure of "conventional" sensors. Point is, they may last or they may not, and you won't know when one of them is slowing down or losing its accuracy. Why risk it? Particularly when the “gains” are probably no more than the placebo effect.
Why would they "not mix evenly"? You lost me completely on that one.
Last edited by Injuneer; 08-07-2005 at 10:17 PM.
08-08-2005, 06:06 PM
#19
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Boca Raton Florida
Posts: 302
Re: Leaded fuel
None of the above really matters as your cars PCM cant tell 110 from 94. The things made for up to 93 octane and thats all it knows anything above is just a waste of $$$ to a LS1 or a LT1. A stock engine or even a slightly modified one wont benefit from higher then 93 octane. 
08-08-2005, 06:47 PM
#21
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Re: Leaded fuel
Originally Posted by JaysGone
None of the above really matters as your cars PCM cant tell 110 from 94. The things made for up to 93 octane and thats all it knows anything above is just a waste of $$$ to a LS1 or a LT1. A stock engine or even a slightly modified one wont benefit from higher then 93 octane. it can adjust...
just as it would if you put in 87
08-08-2005, 07:47 PM
#22
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Melvindale, MI, US
Posts: 4,677
Re: Leaded fuel
Originally Posted by Greed4Speed
IF you had cats it would kill them too. Leaded fuel also leaves deposits. Thats why cars started running hardened valve seats when unleaded became manditory.
Chances are, with the few mods you have, the gains are seen because you have a lean condition and you're picking up some detonation and therefore some knock retard. The ONLY thing higher octane does for you is not detonate as easily as lower octane fuel. Higher octane gasoline DOES NOT burn hotter, cleaner or create more power. It just takes more heat/energy to ignite.
Chances are, with the few mods you have, the gains are seen because you have a lean condition and you're picking up some detonation and therefore some knock retard. The ONLY thing higher octane does for you is not detonate as easily as lower octane fuel. Higher octane gasoline DOES NOT burn hotter, cleaner or create more power. It just takes more heat/energy to ignite.
not quite, hardened seats were needed because the lead acted as a lubricant on the iron seats, so wear was greatly reduced
no lead = no lube = hardened seats needed to compensate
08-08-2005, 09:48 PM
#23
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Boca Raton Florida
Posts: 302
Re: Leaded fuel
It will adjust from 87 to a max of 93 anything over that is wasted. This is a quote from section 6.13. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/ Can higher octane fuels give me more power?"If you are already using the proper octane fuel, you will not obtain more
power from higher octane fuels. The engine will be already operating at
optimum settings, and a higher octane should have no effect on the management
system. Your driveability and fuel economy will remain the same. The higher
octane fuel costs more, so you are just throwing money away. If you are
already using a fuel with an octane rating slightly below the optimum, then
using a higher octane fuel will cause the engine management system to move to
the optimum settings, possibly resulting in both increased power and improved
fuel economy."
This is an old topic even on this board. Any gas over 93 octane does nothing in a stock Camaro regardless of minor mods. And there is no real or rational reason to run leaded gas in a modern basically stock engine.
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