Fixing Window Motors Without Replacment!
07-13-2003, 04:03 PM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: South Texas
Posts: 28
Fixing Window Motors Without Replacment!
After having replaced my window motors twice (using Shoeboxes instructions). I decided to see what was going bad with them. I checked the resistance of the wiring and switch by installing a voltmeter at the plug to the motor. I got a good 13.5 volts. I lubed the guides, rollers, etc for the window.....still it would 'hang up'.
So as some of you know the motors have a sort of thermal circuit breaker which is nothing more than thin strip of copper material which after being heated up (due to the motor encountering some resistance like in our 10 year old cars) it 'trips' until the little strip cools down then you can keep trying to raise your window..sometimes it takes forever to get them all the way up.
I decided to tear the motor apart. It's a very simple device. And the guts are held in by 3 tabs in the body. Bend the tabs out and with a screw driver gently pry up on both sides to get the 'cover' off. The cover retains a set of brushes and 2 small springs. Once you get the cover off you will see a long strip of copper colored material. This is the culprit. It attaches to a brass colored terminal. Below this strip is a longer strip of metal covered in a black insulating rubber type material...this insulates it from the copper strip.
Push up on the copper strip with a small screw driver it's very thin and will bend upwards easily. You will see the black insulated strip below it. Break off the copper strip where it meets the brass terminal it's only attached at that end. Now with the copper strip taken off scrape off some of the insulation with a sharp knife on the remaining metal strip.
What we are going to do is bend the brass terminal (where the copper was attached) against the metal strip that has had it's insulation (about 1/4 inch on the end) taken off. The brass terminal does not have to be completely flat against the metal strip. Now solder (with a soldering iron unless your good with a small soldering torch and some flux cored solder)the brass terminal and the metal strip together. Test your soldering job with a small screw driver (push up on it to make sure it doesn't come apart).
Then put the motor back together:
Straighten the tabs in the back of the brush holders (square box thingees). Pull the commutator from the motor (it comes right out, the magnets in the motor body hold them in). Install the commutator on the cap/brush holder assembly then while holding the commutator in place install the brushes (brushes go with the 'angled' sides away from the motor body),then the springs and bend the little tabs back to hold the springs and brushes in place. Now while holding everything together insert the entire thing back in the body (the magnets will try to pull the commutator off the brush holders so hold it tight). Once everything is in, tap the cap back on. Bend the tabs on the motor back in place to hold the cap. Go to your car plug the motor in and test (by installing the window button and going up then down). If it works then install the motor back in the car and enjoy.
The picture shows the components of the motor (for the exception of the 2 small brush springs). It does not show the copper strip that i removed...only the brass terminal soldered to the metal strip that was below the copper circuit breaker.
I have not had any problems at all with this 'fix'. Remember you are bypassing a circuit breaker so do this at your own risk. As long as you don't leave your finger on the 'up' button for extended periods you won't have a problem with the motor overheating.
So as some of you know the motors have a sort of thermal circuit breaker which is nothing more than thin strip of copper material which after being heated up (due to the motor encountering some resistance like in our 10 year old cars) it 'trips' until the little strip cools down then you can keep trying to raise your window..sometimes it takes forever to get them all the way up.
I decided to tear the motor apart. It's a very simple device. And the guts are held in by 3 tabs in the body. Bend the tabs out and with a screw driver gently pry up on both sides to get the 'cover' off. The cover retains a set of brushes and 2 small springs. Once you get the cover off you will see a long strip of copper colored material. This is the culprit. It attaches to a brass colored terminal. Below this strip is a longer strip of metal covered in a black insulating rubber type material...this insulates it from the copper strip.
Push up on the copper strip with a small screw driver it's very thin and will bend upwards easily. You will see the black insulated strip below it. Break off the copper strip where it meets the brass terminal it's only attached at that end. Now with the copper strip taken off scrape off some of the insulation with a sharp knife on the remaining metal strip.
What we are going to do is bend the brass terminal (where the copper was attached) against the metal strip that has had it's insulation (about 1/4 inch on the end) taken off. The brass terminal does not have to be completely flat against the metal strip. Now solder (with a soldering iron unless your good with a small soldering torch and some flux cored solder)the brass terminal and the metal strip together. Test your soldering job with a small screw driver (push up on it to make sure it doesn't come apart).
Then put the motor back together:
Straighten the tabs in the back of the brush holders (square box thingees). Pull the commutator from the motor (it comes right out, the magnets in the motor body hold them in). Install the commutator on the cap/brush holder assembly then while holding the commutator in place install the brushes (brushes go with the 'angled' sides away from the motor body),then the springs and bend the little tabs back to hold the springs and brushes in place. Now while holding everything together insert the entire thing back in the body (the magnets will try to pull the commutator off the brush holders so hold it tight). Once everything is in, tap the cap back on. Bend the tabs on the motor back in place to hold the cap. Go to your car plug the motor in and test (by installing the window button and going up then down). If it works then install the motor back in the car and enjoy.
The picture shows the components of the motor (for the exception of the 2 small brush springs). It does not show the copper strip that i removed...only the brass terminal soldered to the metal strip that was below the copper circuit breaker.
I have not had any problems at all with this 'fix'. Remember you are bypassing a circuit breaker so do this at your own risk. As long as you don't leave your finger on the 'up' button for extended periods you won't have a problem with the motor overheating.
Last edited by eej; 08-31-2004 at 08:03 PM.
07-13-2003, 04:20 PM
#4
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: South Texas
Posts: 28
Thanks Jordon.. That's correct so if you have kiddo's consider the safety aspects.
If i had a place and web page skills i'd make up a web page about it......Brent94z and shoebox ya listenin'
If i had a place and web page skills i'd make up a web page about it......Brent94z and shoebox ya listenin'
Last edited by eej; 07-13-2003 at 04:28 PM.
07-13-2003, 04:58 PM
#5
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 27,709
I bypassed the ECB (electronic circuit breaker) on an old motor, but did not get to try it out because being an old motor, it had other problems. I had seen that idea of bypassing it years ago on the 'net.
It can be a little tricky getting all the guts back in the motor.
Are you getting any more speed out of it?
It can be a little tricky getting all the guts back in the motor.
Are you getting any more speed out of it?
07-13-2003, 05:15 PM
#6
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,481
Originally posted by shoebox
I bypassed the ECB (electronic circuit breaker) on an old motor, but did not get to try it out because being an old motor, it had other problems. I had seen that idea of bypassing it years ago on the 'net.
It can be a little tricky getting all the guts back in the motor.
Are you getting any more speed out of it?
I bypassed the ECB (electronic circuit breaker) on an old motor, but did not get to try it out because being an old motor, it had other problems. I had seen that idea of bypassing it years ago on the 'net.
It can be a little tricky getting all the guts back in the motor.
Are you getting any more speed out of it?
07-13-2003, 05:16 PM
#7
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: South Texas
Posts: 28
Yes it's much faster. The motor shown is one of my replacements and i practiced on that one before i worked on the one that's in the car now (that's why the soldering job looks like poo poo).
Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)
I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.
Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)
I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.
Last edited by eej; 07-13-2003 at 05:20 PM.
07-13-2003, 05:19 PM
#8
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,481
Originally posted by eej
Yes it's much faster. The motor shown is one of my replacements and i practiced on that one before i worked on the one that's in the car now (that's why the soldering job looks like poo poo).
Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)
Yes it's much faster. The motor shown is one of my replacements and i practiced on that one before i worked on the one that's in the car now (that's why the soldering job looks like poo poo).
Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)
07-13-2003, 05:27 PM
#9
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: South Texas
Posts: 28
I don't know if the increase in speed has to do with lubing the rollers and rails but it is faster than what it was before the 'fix'.
I don't think that it's faster than a brand new original car.... i wouldn't know i bought the car used and it has always been slow but it is faster than it has ever been.
I don't think that it's faster than a brand new original car.... i wouldn't know i bought the car used and it has always been slow but it is faster than it has ever been.
07-13-2003, 05:38 PM
#10
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Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 27,709
Originally posted by eej
Yes it's much faster. The motor shown is one of my replacements and i practiced on that one before i worked on the one that's in the car now (that's why the soldering job looks like poo poo).
Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)
I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.
Yes it's much faster. The motor shown is one of my replacements and i practiced on that one before i worked on the one that's in the car now (that's why the soldering job looks like poo poo).
Of course this won't work on a motor that has broken fields or worn brushes (which i'm sure that 99% are ok in this dept.)
I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.
07-13-2003, 05:47 PM
#12
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,481
Originally posted by eej
I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.
I'm looking at finding an in line higher rated thermal circuit breaker so that we can still retain thermal protection by installing it on the wires going to the motor but at this point i do not know at what temperature/amperage the original trips at.
07-20-2003, 05:25 PM
#13
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI., United States
Posts: 192
Just thought I would TTT this, since it works awesome. I lubed the rails, adjusted the window and even bought a new motor. The only way I could get it to go up the last 1/4" was to adjust the window to the point it was barely touching the molding which made it leak all the time. Even the new motor was slow and didn't go up all the way. I tore the circut breaker strip out like mentioned and it works great now. I think with it being so hot here in Florida it get's hot before making it all the way up. It's faster too.
08-03-2003, 04:52 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 130
I just did this today, figured i would add my 0.02.
It works great. My drivers side window would only move about an inch before halting. I've had the doors apart before so I knew what to expect.
Follow the links, drilling through the door was EASY, it's not even metal it's some fibre composite. It's easy to widen the holes a bit too, if you're off. Find the rivets behind the wall to see where to drill. I used a 3/8" bit.
The rivets were a pain in the ***, a small bit did nothing, had to use a larger 1/4" bit. the motor dropped...no harm done.
The copper piece is easy to see when you take the motor apart, but I was a bit confused. YOu need to seperate the copper layer from the layer directly below it. I was about to lift both layers up, don't. They're sitting right on top of each other. Get the copper piece off by bending from the opposite end of the terminal.
Don't forget the top cap once you get it back on!!! I did..I'll have to go put that back on some day
When you put the motor back in, mark on your motor which holes you need to bolt up. Get one started and align the teeth. I got them all on then realized the teeth werent meshed Once you do that, tighten them up, I used 2 nuts on the backside to ensure they wouldnt loosen off.
Total time, around 3-1/2 hours including rain delay and finding an allen wrench.
Worked great. Nice and crisp movement now Thanks.
It works great. My drivers side window would only move about an inch before halting. I've had the doors apart before so I knew what to expect.
Follow the links, drilling through the door was EASY, it's not even metal it's some fibre composite. It's easy to widen the holes a bit too, if you're off. Find the rivets behind the wall to see where to drill. I used a 3/8" bit.
The rivets were a pain in the ***, a small bit did nothing, had to use a larger 1/4" bit. the motor dropped...no harm done.
The copper piece is easy to see when you take the motor apart, but I was a bit confused. YOu need to seperate the copper layer from the layer directly below it. I was about to lift both layers up, don't. They're sitting right on top of each other. Get the copper piece off by bending from the opposite end of the terminal.
Don't forget the top cap once you get it back on!!! I did..I'll have to go put that back on some day
When you put the motor back in, mark on your motor which holes you need to bolt up. Get one started and align the teeth. I got them all on then realized the teeth werent meshed
Once you do that, tighten them up, I used 2 nuts on the backside to ensure they wouldnt loosen off. Total time, around 3-1/2 hours including rain delay and finding an allen wrench.
Worked great. Nice and crisp movement now
Thanks.