Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
04-09-2006, 08:03 PM
#1
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Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
I was at my wits end with these friggin f-body window motors. I was within a hair of doing the 12V relay mod which would have been a lot of work.
After researching that others had success bypassing the crappy thermal circuit in the motors I was willing to try that first.
I took the motors end caps off and found the copper conductor circuit that creates resistance by design which leads to sluggish motors and even shut down. I pulled the copper conductor, removed the black insulation material and soldered the conducting area up solid.
They now go up and down with ease the way they should even with the motor turned off. They still don't have the power to cut off hands which of course is a good thing.
Some have said that this is a dangerous mod but I now disagree. The motors do you no damn good if they don't work. Also I have had the things shut down and not roll back down, this would be a bummer if you had an arm being clamped and the motor shuts down and wont roll down the window.
Gotta recommend this mod to anyone with a let model f-body. Definitely worth the effort.
After researching that others had success bypassing the crappy thermal circuit in the motors I was willing to try that first.
I took the motors end caps off and found the copper conductor circuit that creates resistance by design which leads to sluggish motors and even shut down. I pulled the copper conductor, removed the black insulation material and soldered the conducting area up solid.
They now go up and down with ease the way they should even with the motor turned off. They still don't have the power to cut off hands which of course is a good thing.
Some have said that this is a dangerous mod but I now disagree. The motors do you no damn good if they don't work. Also I have had the things shut down and not roll back down, this would be a bummer if you had an arm being clamped and the motor shuts down and wont roll down the window.
Gotta recommend this mod to anyone with a let model f-body. Definitely worth the effort.
04-09-2006, 09:08 PM
#3
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Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
Did not take photos, but its intuitive.
Here are the steps, it really isnt too hard to do. If you can get the motors out this part is a breeze.
Here we go
1. Remove the window motor from the door. http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html
2. Bend the 3 metal tabs on the end of the main housing outward with pliers to release the black plastic end cap from the main housing. The end cap is what you will be modding.
3. Pull the plastic end cap off off the main housing. The 2 brushes and 2 springs will fall out, (don't panic)
.
4. There is a 1" conducting strip it is layered. Pull the top strip (copper) off with flat-tip and pliers. You will now see a black surface on the conductor.
5. Using a Dremel with grinding stone or similar, grind the black insulation off to get bare metal surface, also dress the second small terminal that conncects to the brush square opening.
6. Bend the two conductors so they touch and solder them together. Steps 7and 9 are optional but they will further enhance conductive ability.
7. Cut a piece of 12 AWG wire several inches long, and strip the end and tin it with solder.
8. Solder the one end of the wire in to further strengthen the newly soldered conducting surface in the cap. This wire stub is only to enhance the conducting ability.
9. Cut all the excess wire off.
10. Pull the motor armature completely out of the main housing.
11. Bend the four small tabs outward on the end cap so that the brushes can be inserted from the outside rather than the inside.
12. Ensure the armature commutator (the round gold surface where the brushes ride) is clean of grease.
13. Place the plastic end cap on the armature.
14. Insert one brushes in there square slot from the outside, it is indexed and will only fit one way.
15. After the brush is in insert the spring and secure it by bending the two tabs over.
16. Repeat step 14-15 for the other brush and spring.
17. After the two brushes and springs are installed, slip the entire assembly back into the main housing and lightly tap the housing till its seated.
18. Bend the 3 tabs over to secure the end cap to the main housing.
19. Install the window motor. Once the access hole are drilled in the door, I use allen head screw and whiz nuts (nut with attached serrated locking ring) to attach the motr. This make the whole process very easy to do. The whiz nuts dont require a wrench to tighten, they bite into the door.
20. Proceed to drool over the new wicked fast 3-4 second ET's of your power windows.
The entire process for both motor took maybe an hour to do, of course I am real good at taking the motors out. The amount of improved motor performance is mind numbing and once again worth the effort.
Here are the steps, it really isnt too hard to do. If you can get the motors out this part is a breeze.
Here we go
1. Remove the window motor from the door. http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html
2. Bend the 3 metal tabs on the end of the main housing outward with pliers to release the black plastic end cap from the main housing. The end cap is what you will be modding.
3. Pull the plastic end cap off off the main housing. The 2 brushes and 2 springs will fall out, (don't panic)
.4. There is a 1" conducting strip it is layered. Pull the top strip (copper) off with flat-tip and pliers. You will now see a black surface on the conductor.
5. Using a Dremel with grinding stone or similar, grind the black insulation off to get bare metal surface, also dress the second small terminal that conncects to the brush square opening.
6. Bend the two conductors so they touch and solder them together. Steps 7and 9 are optional but they will further enhance conductive ability.
7. Cut a piece of 12 AWG wire several inches long, and strip the end and tin it with solder.
8. Solder the one end of the wire in to further strengthen the newly soldered conducting surface in the cap. This wire stub is only to enhance the conducting ability.
9. Cut all the excess wire off.
10. Pull the motor armature completely out of the main housing.
11. Bend the four small tabs outward on the end cap so that the brushes can be inserted from the outside rather than the inside.
12. Ensure the armature commutator (the round gold surface where the brushes ride) is clean of grease.
13. Place the plastic end cap on the armature.
14. Insert one brushes in there square slot from the outside, it is indexed and will only fit one way.
15. After the brush is in insert the spring and secure it by bending the two tabs over.
16. Repeat step 14-15 for the other brush and spring.
17. After the two brushes and springs are installed, slip the entire assembly back into the main housing and lightly tap the housing till its seated.
18. Bend the 3 tabs over to secure the end cap to the main housing.
19. Install the window motor. Once the access hole are drilled in the door, I use allen head screw and whiz nuts (nut with attached serrated locking ring) to attach the motr. This make the whole process very easy to do. The whiz nuts dont require a wrench to tighten, they bite into the door.
20. Proceed to drool over the new wicked fast 3-4 second ET's of your power windows.
The entire process for both motor took maybe an hour to do, of course I am real good at taking the motors out. The amount of improved motor performance is mind numbing and once again worth the effort.
Last edited by wrd1972; 04-09-2006 at 09:21 PM.
04-09-2006, 09:08 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Greenville, NC/ Daytona Beach, FL
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Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
Originally Posted by firebirdStud
hmm, pics, diagrams, tutorials? I am sick of sluggish motors as well, ef that crap! Sometimes technology isn't all that great.
I am sick of sluggish motors as well, ef that crap! Sometimes technology isn't all that great.EDIT. he beat me to the post button
04-10-2006, 11:02 AM
#5
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 290
Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
I did the relay mod several weeks ago - I didn't feel comfortable modifying that safety feature in the motors (especially since I have 3 kids). For anyone with the same situation, keep that relay mod in mind. It works fantastic cause that's the way the windows should have been designed originally.
04-10-2006, 11:39 AM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 1,830
Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
Do they go up any faster or anything like limo windows. Or does this just fix the overheating in the filament, which causes it to become slow and fail.
04-10-2006, 11:49 AM
#7
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Location: New Jersey
Posts: 290
Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
Ever replace a window motor? Remember how fast the window was (relatively speaking) when the replacment motor was installed? That's what you get. In my case I'm happy with it. And I know the motor isn't suffering the effects of undervoltage/overcurrent.
04-10-2006, 01:49 PM
#9
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Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
Originally Posted by scottso
I did the relay mod several weeks ago - I didn't feel comfortable modifying that safety feature in the motors (especially since I have 3 kids). For anyone with the same situation, keep that relay mod in mind. It works fantastic cause that's the way the windows should have been designed originally.
If the heart of the problem is truly the thermal circuits in the motors then the relay mod will not remedy it. The relay mod will remedy the voltage drop encountered from the switches, long wire runs and connectors. By doing both mods the windows will perform the best. The relay mod helps a bit but the thermal bypass helps a lot.
The window speed after the thermal bypass is the same as it probobly was the day the car left the assembly line. The thermal circuit ages and becomes resistive causing the slow speeds, lack of power and shut down.
Last edited by wrd1972; 04-10-2006 at 01:53 PM.
04-10-2006, 02:33 PM
#10
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Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
Now bear in mind what I know about electricity will fill a thimble...
But if voltage remains constant because of the larger gauge wire and relay setup - the current is lowered - and there is less heat, and therefore the thermal circuit is no longer an issue. My understanding is that the thermal circuit becomes an issue because of the wiring/connector problems and resistence - especially with age. Of course, if the thermal circuit is bad to begin with then all bets are off. But maybe thats what you are driving at?
But if voltage remains constant because of the larger gauge wire and relay setup - the current is lowered - and there is less heat, and therefore the thermal circuit is no longer an issue. My understanding is that the thermal circuit becomes an issue because of the wiring/connector problems and resistence - especially with age. Of course, if the thermal circuit is bad to begin with then all bets are off. But maybe thats what you are driving at?
04-10-2006, 02:58 PM
#11
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Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
Originally Posted by scottso
Now bear in mind what I know about electricity will fill a thimble...
But if voltage remains constant because of the larger gauge wire and relay setup - the current is lowered - and there is less heat, and therefore the thermal circuit is no longer an issue. My understanding is that the thermal circuit becomes an issue because of the wiring/connector problems and resistence - especially with age. Of course, if the thermal circuit is bad to begin with then all bets are off. But maybe thats what you are driving at?
But if voltage remains constant because of the larger gauge wire and relay setup - the current is lowered - and there is less heat, and therefore the thermal circuit is no longer an issue. My understanding is that the thermal circuit becomes an issue because of the wiring/connector problems and resistence - especially with age. Of course, if the thermal circuit is bad to begin with then all bets are off. But maybe thats what you are driving at?
The improperly working thermal circuit can be treated as a resistor which will drop the working voltage and convert it to heat, this causes the sluggish window motor cause as the voltage goes down so does the current. The relays ensure that there is very little voltage drop prior to the thermal circuit which of course does help some. You will be providing say 12V rather than maybe 11.2V or something similar.
The thermal circuit is like a weak link in the chain and the only way to overcome it is to either replace or remove that circuit.
04-25-2006, 03:03 AM
#12
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Posts: 78
Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
Hmm, I think I might try this one day, if possible can you please someday get pictures of it?
The owner before me had put in a AC Delco window motor (like $130), the manufacture date was in 2003, it broke in a less than a year... I knew it was the window motor because with the door panel open if you held the switch and tapped the motor it would work. So I bought two replacement motors (1 as a spare) which were not rebuilt but brand new according to the guy at the auto parts store, I believe they had a 5 year warranty or something but now I am overseas. Even with the new motor sometimes it acts up and does not want to do as its told, could the problem be a poor thermal circuit in these replacement motors?
The owner before me had put in a AC Delco window motor (like $130), the manufacture date was in 2003, it broke in a less than a year... I knew it was the window motor because with the door panel open if you held the switch and tapped the motor it would work. So I bought two replacement motors (1 as a spare) which were not rebuilt but brand new according to the guy at the auto parts store, I believe they had a 5 year warranty or something but now I am overseas. Even with the new motor sometimes it acts up and does not want to do as its told, could the problem be a poor thermal circuit in these replacement motors?
04-25-2006, 03:40 PM
#14
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Location: US 1 Mile Marker 52 in the Florida Keys
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Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
well...i tried to do this mod. i even had an old motor laying around.
pulled the end cap off and after the "3 tabs" part...nothing else followed the description.
no springs
no brushes
not sure what it's all supposed to look like beyond that.
off to the parts store
pulled the end cap off and after the "3 tabs" part...nothing else followed the description.
no springs
no brushes
not sure what it's all supposed to look like beyond that.
off to the parts store
04-25-2006, 08:04 PM
#15
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Talbott, TN
Posts: 519
Re: Did the window motor thermal bypass...OMG do they work better.
I picked this up off of this board a couple of years ago and saved it as a Word document,, in fact I even copied the instructions already in this thread and added to my Word document (thanks to the original poster of this thread),, I added the words below as there is three pics included.
"After having replaced my window motors twice (using Shoeboxes instructions). I decided to see what was going bad with them. I checked the resistance of the wiring and switch by installing a voltmeter at the plug to the motor. I got a good 13.5 volts. I lubed the guides, rollers, etc for the window.....still it would 'hang up'.
So as some of you know the motors have a sort of thermal circuit breaker which is nothing more than thin strip of copper material which after being heated up (due to the motor encountering some resistance like in our 10 year old cars) it 'trips' until the little strip cools down then you can keep trying to raise your window..sometimes it takes forever to get them all the way up.
I decided to tear the motor apart. It's a very simple device. And the guts are held in by 3 tabs in the body. Bend the tabs out and with a screw driver gently pry up on both sides to get the 'cover' off. The cover retains a set of brushes and 2 small springs. Once you get the cover off you will see a long strip of copper colored material. This is the culprit. It attaches to a brass colored terminal. Below this strip is a longer strip of metal covered in a black insulating rubber type material...this insulates it from the copper strip.
Push up on the copper strip with a small screw driver it's very thin and will bend upwards easily. You will see the black insulated strip below it. Break off the copper strip where it meets the brass terminal it's only attached at that end. Now with the copper strip taken off scrape off some of the insulation with a sharp knife on the remaining metal strip.
What we are going to do is bend the brass terminal (where the copper was attached) against the metal strip that has had it's insulation (about 1/4 inch on the end) taken off. The brass terminal does not have to be completely flat against the metal strip. Now solder (with a soldering iron unless your good with a small soldering torch and some flux cored solder)the brass terminal and the metal strip together. Test your soldering job with a small screw driver (push up on it to make sure it doesn't come apart).
Then put the motor back together:
Straighten the tabs in the back of the brush holders (square box thingees). Pull the commutator from the motor (it comes right out, the magnets in the motor body hold them in). Install the commutator on the cap/brush holder assembly then while holding the commutator in place install the brushes (brushes go with the 'angled' sides away from the motor body),then the springs and bend the little tabs back to hold the springs and brushes in place. Now while holding everything together insert the entire thing back in the body (the magnets will try to pull the commutator off the brush holders so hold it tight). Once everything is in, tap the cap back on. Bend the tabs on the motor back in place to hold the cap. Go to your car plug the motor in and test (by installing the window button and going up then down). If it works then install the motor back in the car and enjoy.
The picture shows the components of the motor (for the exception of the 2 small brush springs). It does not show the copper strip that i removed...only the brass terminal soldered to the metal strip that was below the copper circuit breaker.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/...0e2d50000001610
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/...f63ba0000001610
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/...d63e80000001610
I have not had any problems at all with this 'fix'. Remember you are bypassing a circuit breaker so do this at your own risk. As long as you don't leave your finger on the 'up' button for extended periods you won't have a problem with the motor overheating."
"After having replaced my window motors twice (using Shoeboxes instructions). I decided to see what was going bad with them. I checked the resistance of the wiring and switch by installing a voltmeter at the plug to the motor. I got a good 13.5 volts. I lubed the guides, rollers, etc for the window.....still it would 'hang up'.
So as some of you know the motors have a sort of thermal circuit breaker which is nothing more than thin strip of copper material which after being heated up (due to the motor encountering some resistance like in our 10 year old cars) it 'trips' until the little strip cools down then you can keep trying to raise your window..sometimes it takes forever to get them all the way up.
I decided to tear the motor apart. It's a very simple device. And the guts are held in by 3 tabs in the body. Bend the tabs out and with a screw driver gently pry up on both sides to get the 'cover' off. The cover retains a set of brushes and 2 small springs. Once you get the cover off you will see a long strip of copper colored material. This is the culprit. It attaches to a brass colored terminal. Below this strip is a longer strip of metal covered in a black insulating rubber type material...this insulates it from the copper strip.
Push up on the copper strip with a small screw driver it's very thin and will bend upwards easily. You will see the black insulated strip below it. Break off the copper strip where it meets the brass terminal it's only attached at that end. Now with the copper strip taken off scrape off some of the insulation with a sharp knife on the remaining metal strip.
What we are going to do is bend the brass terminal (where the copper was attached) against the metal strip that has had it's insulation (about 1/4 inch on the end) taken off. The brass terminal does not have to be completely flat against the metal strip. Now solder (with a soldering iron unless your good with a small soldering torch and some flux cored solder)the brass terminal and the metal strip together. Test your soldering job with a small screw driver (push up on it to make sure it doesn't come apart).
Then put the motor back together:
Straighten the tabs in the back of the brush holders (square box thingees). Pull the commutator from the motor (it comes right out, the magnets in the motor body hold them in). Install the commutator on the cap/brush holder assembly then while holding the commutator in place install the brushes (brushes go with the 'angled' sides away from the motor body),then the springs and bend the little tabs back to hold the springs and brushes in place. Now while holding everything together insert the entire thing back in the body (the magnets will try to pull the commutator off the brush holders so hold it tight). Once everything is in, tap the cap back on. Bend the tabs on the motor back in place to hold the cap. Go to your car plug the motor in and test (by installing the window button and going up then down). If it works then install the motor back in the car and enjoy.
The picture shows the components of the motor (for the exception of the 2 small brush springs). It does not show the copper strip that i removed...only the brass terminal soldered to the metal strip that was below the copper circuit breaker.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/...0e2d50000001610
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/...f63ba0000001610
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/...d63e80000001610
I have not had any problems at all with this 'fix'. Remember you are bypassing a circuit breaker so do this at your own risk. As long as you don't leave your finger on the 'up' button for extended periods you won't have a problem with the motor overheating."