JoshMan

I was recently offered a 1998 Camaro 2D coupe (the V6) for $2000. There are some problems with it and I was wondering if it should be worth it. My mechanical skills are basic but I would like an idea of what is going on with the car before I spend money fixing it up.
I was also thinking if this car isn't in good enough shape to want to spend money on it buying a used Z28, but wanted someones opinion because I have had it inspected and some diagnostics run on it and what they said was the service engine light was on because the EGR valve, something with the transmission (though they said it is not breaking down, there is something wrong), and the gas cap was replaced somewhere along the line and is leaking some gas vapors.
Besides those problems, the drivers side mirror is broken, you have to hold the back hatch open, there is a lump on the passenger side, and scratches and dents in the paint.
While driving it around I have noticed white smoke coming out of the back, it's really noticeable while idling and does it a lot after starting, I notice it sometimes while in motion too, but again mostly after idling, though it could still be there but not as bad. There is also oil in the coolant, it had an oil change recently and I don't know about the status before it, but it seems to have only loss less than 2.5 quarts of oil max since then. If I go above 3000RPM it stutters a little out of first when taking off from a stoplight. It also squeals a little when turning with the wheel all the way to a side.
I haven't got a carfax or anything yet because I want to see if it's even worth it first, the guy I know that bought it got it from an auction and he paid $2200 for it. He didn't really like it so it sat in his driveway for a few months at least. I know nothing of the owner before him and I didn't get to see it before they changed the oil and did basic maintenance a little more than a month ago.
Thanks anyone for any help, I am not the best with these things, and have already spent more than $100 on diagnostics and replacing the headlights and such. Thanks again.

crushah

For the money, I'm sure that you could find something in much better condition..even a V-8. Could be major problems lurking.

CstIrnFst

I would have to pass if I were in the same situation as you were in. 2K for that care seems a bit higher than it should be considering the potential issues with the engine/repairs.

A bit hard to put a price on a car that I can't physically see and drive though.

JakeRobb

I wouldn't buy that car. No way.

On the passenger side what?

If you're referring to the floorpan in front of the passenger seat, it came that way from the factory.

JoshMan

Ok, thanks everyone for the fast input.
Yeah I was thinking that earlier, just was going to ask while I was making a post

It drives alright, it will do 0-60 in a little over 5.5 seconds. Sounds good, no rattles except from the broken shock for the back hatch.
And I forgot to mention I might be able to talk him down considering the condition of the car, what in your opinion is this car worth?

JakeRobb

No it won't, unless you consider 8 to be "a little over 5.5."

JakeRobb

If it didn't have any mechanical problems, it'd be worth the two grand he's asking. Maybe three grand if the body and paint were perfect too.

At the very least, it needs a transmission rebuild and a top-end rebuild (possibly just gaskets, but the labor is roughly the same). That's at least three grand and probably more like three four worth of labor to have a competent shop do it. If you "know a guy," you might get it all done for as little as $1500.

I'm assuming you don't "know a guy," because if you did, you'd be asking him and not us. That means you're looking at $5000-6000 for a good-running car, and it's still going to have scratches in the paint and dents in the body. If you subtract the cost of the repairs it needs from what it would be worth once repaired, he should be paying you to take the car -- which means you shouldn't buy it.

For six grand, you should be able to buy a high-miles '98-00 Z28 with no mechanical problems at all, and probably with no dents in the body either. A few scratches are pretty much unavoidable at that age. Or, for the same money you could get a '93-97 Z28 (LT1, not LS1) in really great shape.

Step up a bit further -- $8000 or so -- and you should be able to get your hands on an '01-02 Z28, which has some slight upgrades to the LS1 engine and is the fastest of all and IMO the best Camaro purchase you can make today.

JoshMan

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it, I tried to get some answers from a couple of shops around here but they just aren't straight forward. So I begin to shop for a different Camaro. Also there is a lot of automatics I have noticed shopping around, is it even worth looking at those (as much as I don't like autos) because the manuals are considerably more expensive that I have found.
Also is there any way to tell what engine it has (LS1 vs LT1) without it saying on the listing, like if it is a certain year or whatnot? I tried googling to find out but there weren't any answers.

I am also seeing a couple 98's (mostly SS's) with the LS1 engine, was there any reason in particular that you said get an '01-02 LS1?

Well instead of asking a bunch of questions here are the listings I have found that I am interested in, if you would want to tell me the perks of each.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-...item230858d442

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-Bl...item27b34fc8a6

JakeRobb

The autos are fine cars if you like autos. I'm a manual transmission guy myself. I don't know anyone who's compromised on which transmission they wanted and ended up being happy about it, no regrets. Since you say you prefer manuals, I think you should hold out for the manual at a fair price -- they're out there.

'93-97 have the LT1, '98-02 have the LS1. This information is pretty readily available online -- try the 4th generation Camaro article on Wikipedia for one example.

In 2001, the LS1 got a different cam, a different intake manifold, and on the manual transmission models a different clutch.

The cam is milder, which means that you can run at lower RPMs without lugging the engine. In my 2002 can cruise along in 6th at 40mph (about 900rpm) with no trouble and no lugging. You can't do that in a '98-00. This matters more on a manual than an automatic because the six-speed manual's lowest gear ratio is substantially lower than that of the four-speed auto.

The intake is the LS6 intake (from the 2001-2004 Corvette Z06), which flows better. Between the milder cam and the better-flowing intake, you net about +5hp -- not a big difference, but the better low-RPM performance is worth it IMO.

The clutch is also from the Z06, and has more holding power than the clutch used in '98-00 models. Mine has survived 93,000 miles of abuse, including dozens of dragstrip launches, tons of hard driving, and the occasional burnout, and still shows no sign of losing any grip.

I'll look these over for you in a minute, but you should stop shopping there and start shopping here and on other Camaro-oriented messageboards like LS1tech.com. You're more likely to find a car with a known history being sold by someone who isn't going to overcharge you for it.

JoshMan

Thank you, I couldn't have asked for better answers. Your posts will help my consideration greatly and is appreciated.

JakeRobb

I normally don't like buying used cars from used car dealers -- that's generally a great way to pay an extra two grand for a car. Having said that, this one looks okay:

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national

That's a nice car. Low miles, good year, good options, and with the transmission you want. Make sure it's in good condition -- no dents in the body, no oil leaks, etc. See if they'll let you take it to a trusted mechanic for independent inspection. If everything is good, offer them $9,000 for it, and don't pay a penny over 10k. If they don't bite, look elsewhere.

Regardless of what you end up with, there are a few modifications you should do right away:
1. shocks
2. subframe connectors
3. short-throw shifter and short stick (if you get a manual; I recommend a Pro 5.0 with Lou's Short Stick)
4. airbox lid

The first two are important to the longevity of the car. The stock body is a bit too flexible, and the stock shocks quite a bit too stiff. Over time, the car will rattle itself to pieces. Upgrading the shocks will give you better handling and a better ride, reducing stress on the body and making the entire car last longer while also being more fun to drive.

Even with the shocks, you should still do something about stiffness. Subframe connectors connect the front subframe (which carries the engine, steering, and the front wheels/suspension) to the rear subframe (which carries the diff and the rear wheels/suspension) and make a world of difference in the way the car behaves going over speed bumps, railroad tracks, and other rough pavement features.

The short shifter is a must-have IMO -- even if you end up with a car equipped with the factory-installed Hurst short shifter. It's an easy DIY install. There are three good options -- the Pro 5.0, the Hurst Billet Plus, and the B&M Ripper shifter. The Pro 5.0 is cheapest, and the Hurst the most expensive. I've not yet met anyone with enough seat time with more than one of those who can really compare and contrast the options, but I went with the Pro 5.0 and am very happy. Regardless of which you choose, a corresponding short stick will make it even better. Most people go with Lou's Short Stick. You can get a Pro 5.0 with Lou's short stick as a combo package from afterthoughtsauto.com, which is a site sponsor.

The airbox lid modifies the factory air intake to provide a smoother, higher-flowing path for air to reach the throttle. Some SS models with SLP add-ons came with these new. This modification is worth 5-10 horsepower, plus a slight increase in fuel economy.
There are several companies that make lids, and they're all basically the same in terms of function. They cost $90-100 and you can pick whatever you like based on price and appearance. MTI makes a clear lid that's pretty neat looking, and SLP makes what is in my opinion the sleekest-looking black lid with the SLP logo stenciled on.

JoshMan

I can't thank you enough. Due to financial stress though would it be considerable to buy the one that is being offered to me and replacing the engine and transmission (I saw an LS1 engine and 4L60E transmission online for 5.8k with less than 10k miles and a new ECM computer). What other parts would I need to replace to handle the higher power ouput? Plus the shocks, connectors, shifter, and airbox lid you suggested. What else could be damaged on the car. I am about to take it to a friends and pull it apart some to inspect some of the parts on the inside, where should I check for stress?
The reason I still have second thoughts about buying the original offer is a friend let me borrow the car for a road trip because my car was broken down, he has let me keep it for a few months and was overall really nice about it, and he didn't drive it so he would be happy to get rid of it. On top of that I don't really have 9k to drop on a car right now. I guess I am asking could that car even possibly be worth the 2k, I might also be able to talk him down to 1.5k or less.
Your help is greatly appreciated JakeRobb.

JakeRobb

Let's say you got the car for $1.5k. Add $5800 for an LS1 engine w/ 4L60E... you're at 7300. I've never done a swap myself, but everyone who has says there's no way to do it and come out ahead of the difference in price for a car that already has the V8 in it. $1700 isn't much to cover all of the stuff you'll need. Someone who has actually done a swap can probably comment better on what you'll need to do. Does that LS1 come with exhaust manifolds? What about the rest of the exhaust? How about throttle linkage? Is it from a Camaro, a Corvette, or a GTO (the oil pan is different)? Which year (emissions provisions are different)? Are you sure it has only 10k on it? Do you know how long it has been sitting? Does it have oil in it? Has it turned to sludge?

A used motor of unknown history is a HUGE gamble, even with low miles. That makes me nervous. It's not something I'd recommend for someone without a ton of experience working on cars.

In the end, you'd still have a Camaro with an automatic, which isn't what you really want. You could consider a swap, but now you're adding even more costs.

If you're looking to get into a V8 Camaro for $7300 or less, I say buy a '96-97 LT1 Z28 from someone on this board, or look long and hard and find a '98-00 LS1 with higher miles. Note that while the '01-02 LS1 engines are preferable, there's nothing wrong with the '98-00 models.

Note: the airbox lid only applies to LS1 engines -- if you get an LT1, you'll want to get a cold-air intake instead. There are several to choose from, and I'm sure that one of the LT1 guys around here can help you make an informed decision.

JoshMan

Thank you. I am probably going to tell him I'm not interested in the one I have an offer on and wait a couple months to get one with a V8. Thanks for all your help.