RussStang

No prob. I was just being overly technical anyway. You got the gears to be in right.

Critter

bone stock lt1 a4's dyno 240ish...

Johnnynsac

Your right about the ish.. part. Just depends. Some dyno more, some dyno less. But I think most of us do know F-bodies will walk away from a stang in those years. I lost count of how many times this has been talked about.

Honda Hunter

P.I > LT1 The true stangers will know what that means.

Johnnynsac

Power Improved. Sorry, not a true stanger.

chas

I just sold a 03 GT, compared to my just bought 97 Z28 SS with 67,000 miles the Z will smoke my 03 stang. The Z has alot more low end grunt!

Chas

RussStang

I know what that means, but I still fail to see why you said it. The P.I. headed Mustang 4.6 still makes 15(96-97)/25(98)hp less than a good running LT1 does. The only advantage the 99-04 stangs have is that they actually weighed alot less than most people seem to realize; just over 3250lbs. They weighed alot less than the weaker 94-98 stangs.

Honda Hunter

I would choose a P.I Mustang over a LT1 any day. The LT1 Camaros are so outdated in styling and engine wise. I could make more power and safer power in a 99+ mustang. I'm so ready to duke this one out.

RussStang

OK, well you are probably going to have to. The styling I will give to you, because I don't really like the Camaro's 93-97 front end very much. More power out of the 4.6 though. Sorry, nope.
The only way you are going to see over 400hp at the wheels with a P.I. 2v 4.6 is with a good Vortech S-trim blower, intercooler, full exhaust, and a Bullitt intake. Thats quite an investment there, but probably the cheapest way to see 400rwhp. At that power level, you have to be extremely careful with the tuning, because it will be quite easy to send a piston to hell. A Steeda representative told me personally that at that power level I would be very prone to loosing a piston or having problems with head gaskets in stock trim. Also, the t45s and the t3650s might survive at that power level for a decent bit of time, but the first time someone gets aggressive with a 4r70w at that power level and the trans is going to give out. 3-4 band is going to give out almost immediately.
An LT1 fbody can make over 400rhwp naturally aspirated, on the stock bottom end, for alot cheaper, and not have to worry about having to forge the stock bottom end at that power level. A D1SC Procharger on an otherwise stock LT1 can push the power levels of the car up to and past 400rwhp, with very little in supporting mods done to the car otherwise. Heads/cam or blower on an LT1 would be much cheaper routes to reaching that 400hp mark than on the 4.6. The 4l60-Es are a hit or a miss. I have heard of some of them giving people trouble at this power level, I have heard of others behaving fine. The t56s would live and breathe at this power level with no problem.

An LT1 can see up to 396s cubes on the stock block (for practical purposes), good luck getting more than 5.3 liters out of a 4.6. All of the biggest power 4.6s I hve heard of are running some pretty huge boost numbers out of big blowers or turbos; try running some of those same FI devices at similiar outputs on an LT1, and see which makes more power.

Sorry dude. I had a Mustang GT for well over a year, and over that time I learned ALOT about Mustangs. Talked to alot of guys, hung out with alot of people, and spoke with alot of aftermarket technicians. So I am not spouting out crap here. I also am not really that huge of a fan of the LT1. I got rid of my GT because 1. it was in an bad accident, 2. i wanted an LS1 to replace it because I feel the LS1 is superior in almost every way. If the LT1 was still in the Camaros I probably would have picked up another Mustang. I am just trying to look at this objectively, and I don't think the 4.6 has the potential in either street or race trim that an LT1 does.

Camarocracy

The 02-04 GT's do look good though.

RussStang

01-04s you mean, and yes they do. Accept for the fact that the damn scoops were fake, which irritated me to no end.

Honda Hunter

I will address this as soon as I wake up. Standby.

Honda Hunter

First of all I dont like the stylings of 99+ Mustangs. Since day one I was against the box look in favor of the smooth look of the 94-98. They still look better than LT1 Camaros and firebirds anyday.


More BS. An N/A 4.6 with H/C/I and all the bolt-ons can get deep into the 300's. Add a blower to that and it can get you deep into the 400 and beyond.



At that power level you say? Hmmm... Are we refering to a boosted 4.6? If so get real. You cant even go above 5-6psi on a turbo / S/C LT1. You can pump out at least 10-12 depending on your tune. Not saying the HypernumaticsOrWhateverIt'sCalled's pistons in the Mustang are good, we all know they are not the best but with proper tuning they hold just fine. The lower c/r in the 4.6 2v is also a advantage. The LT1 is in the 10's which is why it cant hold alot of boost in stock form but the P.I is in the 9.s. I think you would have to worry more about a LT1 head gasket before a 4.6. Ive owned a 4.6 forever and didnt have a head gasket problem till a couple of years ago when I pushed my non p.i to the limit of 500rwhp. The first 2 months with my LT1 I had head gasket faliure. You can take that however you like. And also, so because a steeda rep told you something it has to be gold? Strike 1.



WTH dude? Who's feeding you this garbage? OH, I know. Youre shooting from the hip because I'm sure in the short year you owned the car you never made any serious HP so you wouldnt know for sure if what youre saying is fact or fiction so youre forced to go by what you may have heard or read on the net. The 4R70W will hold alot longer and stronger than a 4l60E. THIS I KNOW FOR A FACT BASED ON OWNING BOTH TRANNIES AND MAKING POWER THROUGH BOTH, ACTUALL POWER, NOT WHAT I HEARD FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE MADE THIS ELUSIVE ACTUALL POWER. My 4R70W trully did impress me. I was making low 300's for a long time. Then the second setup I made it deep into the 400's and it still held up fine for a while until the abuse caught up with me. It was my own fault though. I trully beat that tranny to hell and it held for as long as it could which was very long in which after it broke I had it rebuilt again with stock internals and a manual valve body with transbrake. BTW Performance Automatic did a heck of a job with it. Now lets talk 4L60E. It's crap. Every GM board on the net says the same thing. Besides the 10 bolt going out the next thing people worry about with Camaro is the auto tranny being next. How weak is that. The proof is in the pudding. Here on this board they have a sticky dedicated to what broke in thier 4l60e like it's normal and expected. The 4l60e is more like a hit and rebuild not hit and miss. After my 383 build the car shifted fine twice then wouldnt shift anymore at WOT. Twice dude. TWICE. Cant even find many manual valve bodies for the 4l60e and Im sure the ones availible are not as cheap and reliable as those for the 4r70w. Correct me if Im wrong but many of the big name tranny builders on the board dont reccomend them in a 4l60e. So yeah, Ill take my 4r70w/aode anyfreegindaybub.




Hmm I dunno. Ill give you the cheaper only because the motor is old as dirt. I think moses drove one to pick Jesus up from the store. It's a freekin SBC so what do you expect? The biggest technological advance on the motor is the water cooled heads. whoopi. A newer more advanced motor is going to cost a nickle more but hell nowadays the 4.6 stuff can be had affordably and now just as cheap, if not cheaper than the lt1. Youre saying a n/a lt1 can hold it's power better than a 4.6 2v P.I N/A? That's debatble.




Here you again. A stock lt1 guy who doesnt want to blow up wont even pass 5 pounds of boost +1- so explain how that's deep into the 400's? You slipped up when you said stock with just the blower. A 4.6 will make 400+ and still be more reliable with the blower than the LT1. From what Ive seen on this board most of the guys here (LT1 cars with little or nothing else) barely hit the 350-380 range. There where most P.I guys are with alot more room.



BS. 400rwhp can be reached without heads and cam on a 4.6 sir with no problem.




Read what I wrote before pertaining to how I feel about your 4l60e Vs 4r70w argument. Not going to argue manual trannies. Dont have any expierience with a t-56, t-5, t45, t-365657363, you get my point.




So bigger is better? If so then why are the majority, (key word the majority not all) guys here only make low 400's with these big 383's and 396's? Ive seen 355's do better. If size mattered they would still be selling Camaro's. Now to some truth. A 4.6 can be strocked to a 5.3 true but the 5.4l is just a strocked version of the 4.6 anyway. the 5.4l can be strocked to 5.8 and even 6.0. They even make a Moduler 6.0 block (well world and SHM use to) that could be strocked to 6.*. Get my drift. Does anyone go that extreme? Not really. But how often do you meet someone with a 396LT1? Once again, a majority of everyone here thinks it's noth worth the small gain to go that big. They even say the same about the 383 sometimes. Most stangers wont get to crazy boring and strocking because most the mod motors above the 4.6 are undersquare.


Your point?




The bigger motor I suspect if were talking N/A. Then efficianancy comes into play. The big motor may always out torque it but I think pound for pound of boost the 4.6 does better.



Dont be sorry for me. You should feel sorry for yourself. You had a Mustang for 1 entire whole year eh? Ive been a sailor for 8 years and still cant swim. Get my drift? Everything you know is from what youve heard. Ive spent countless time and money with the mod motors. I'm no expert and my knowledge is rusty but I still know the ins and outs. I took a non p.i motor to the top so a p.i motor is cake. As for the spouting of crap, thats debatble.





I'm not a huge fan myself of the LT1. I only have one because I was board and it was cheap. I couldnt see myself doing another mustang project. LS1 > *

Dont take anything Ive said as a flame. I'm not trying to come off as a a-hole.




If the LT1 was still in camaros then 97 wouldve have been the last year for sure.


I disagree. Level the playing field and tell me which is more effeciant. Bigger is not always better but it helps alot.

wrd1972

I knew it would only be a matter of time before this thread turned into a big pissing contest.

Why don't you guys stick to what was originally asked in the subject rather than how one motor can kick the crap out of another with certain mods and vice versa. My engine is more efficiant than yours blah blah blah. And WTF does styling have to do with which one is faster.

Again:
STICK TO THE SUBJECT.

The guy wants to know stock for stock who would win. The LT1 has the power advantage and the GT has the weight advantage. Its a drivers race with the LT1 having a slight advantage.

This ought to be posted in the Mustang forums so you get their pantys wadded up too.

Honda Hunter

Cant answer the question without getting into it. It's like asking what taste better coke or pespi. Have to get dirty and explore the detail instead of making it a yes or no question. Life isnt that simple.