Rear End FAQ - Page 3 - CamaroZ28.Com Message Board


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Old 05-05-2007, 08:01 PM   #31
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From Randy's Ring and Pinion, a great company to do business with: http://www.ringpinion.com/Default.aspx

"What is the break-in proceedure for a new set of gears?
All new gear sets require a break-in period to prevent damage from overheating. After driving the first 15 or 20 miles it is best to let the differential cool before proceeding. I recommend at least 500 miles before towing. I also recommend towing for very short distances (less than 15 miles) and letting the differential cool before continuing during the first 45 towing miles. This may seem unnecessary but I have seen many differentials damaged from being loaded before the gear set was broken in.

I also recommend changing the gear oil after the first 500 miles. This will remove any metal particles or phosphorus coating that has come from the new gear set."


For race cars, most people run them on the jackstands for a few minutes at moderate speed, let them cool down and then go.

Rich
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Old 06-27-2007, 12:35 AM   #32
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I have a question that has been on my mind awhile.
What is the strength of rear gears as a function of their ratio (#teeth on ring/pinion); given equal size, materials, etc.
I.E.
4.10 ratio (41 teeth ring/10 teeth pinion) versus
4.11 ratio (37 teeth ring/9 teeth pinion)
I think this information would help people make more educated decisions on gear ratios if they knew the ones that were strongest/weakest and why.
Thanks
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:32 AM   #33
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Given the same materials and manufacturing process, gears that are physically bigger are stronger.

A stock 4th gen F-body rear end has a 7.5" ring gear. The stock rear end found in 78-87 G-bodies (and some other cars as well) have 8.5" ring gears. 12-bolts have 8.875" ring gears. Ford 9" rears have (you guessed it) 9" ring gears. Dana 60's have 9.75" ring gears.

A given gear ratio dictates that the pinion gear be a given fraction of the size of the ring gear. As your gear ratio increases numerically, the pinion gear gets smaller, and therefore weaker.

So, given the same ring gear size, 3.73s will be stronger than 4.10s.

There are other variables to take into account, since the ring and pinion aren't the only things that can break, but those are the basic guidelines.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:47 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRobb View Post
Given the same materials and manufacturing process, gears that are physically bigger are stronger.

A stock 4th gen F-body rear end has a 7.5" ring gear. The stock rear end found in 78-87 G-bodies (and some other cars as well) have 8.5" ring gears. 12-bolts have 8.875" ring gears. Ford 9" rears have (you guessed it) 9" ring gears. Dana 60's have 9.75" ring gears.

A given gear ratio dictates that the pinion gear be a given fraction of the size of the ring gear. As your gear ratio increases numerically, the pinion gear gets smaller, and therefore weaker.

So, given the same ring gear size, 3.73s will be stronger than 4.10s.

There are other variables to take into account, since the ring and pinion aren't the only things that can break, but those are the basic guidelines.
Do these G-Body rear ends bolt to our cars? And where are you seeing these Dana 60's
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Old 08-08-2007, 08:00 AM   #35
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Do these G-Body rear ends bolt to our cars? And where are you seeing these Dana 60's
The G-body is wider than the F-body, so no, it won't bolt right up.

DTS sells a Dana 60 rear for the F-body. Strange does too, but everybody tells me to go with DTS. They don't have prices for complete rear ends on their website, but they have a phone number and an email contact form.

http://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:43 PM   #36
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How can you tellother than pulling a rear end apart, what the gear ratio is and whether it is positive traction or not, four manual and automatic trans?
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:26 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by dirtlover View Post
what the gear ratio is
There are a number of ways. If the rear end is not attached to the engine (i.e. the driveshaft is not connected), just count how many turns of the pinion yoke result in one full turn of the axles. If you can actually measure it in degrees, you can be exact -- otherwise, it's tough to tell the difference between something like a 3.42 and a 3.50 gear.

If the rear end is attached to the car, go out for a drive. Pick a constant speed, and then take note of your speed, RPM, and what gear you're in. Do that a couple times at different speeds and in different gears.

Next, use a calculator like this one. Fill in your information and click Calculate, and then play with the gear ratio box until you find a ratio works with your numbers.

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whether it is positive traction or not
Do a burnout. One tire mark = not posi. Two tires marks = posi.

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four manual and automatic trans?
I have no idea what you are asking. There is nothing transmission-specific in the rear end on an F-body.
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:20 PM   #38
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There are a number of ways. If the rear end is not attached to the engine (i.e. the driveshaft is not connected), just count how many turns of the pinion yoke result in one full turn of the axles. If you can actually measure it in degrees, you can be exact -- otherwise, it's tough to tell the difference between something like a 3.42 and a 3.50 gear.

If the rear end is attached to the car, go out for a drive. Pick a constant speed, and then take note of your speed, RPM, and what gear you're in. Do that a couple times at different speeds and in different gears.

Next, use a calculator like this one. Fill in your information and click Calculate, and then play with the gear ratio box until you find a ratio works with your numbers.


Do a burnout. One tire mark = not posi. Two tires marks = posi.


I have no idea what you are asking. There is nothing transmission-specific in the rear end on an F-body.
I understand that if you have an automatic trans and jack up the rear, spin the rear wheel forward and the opposite wheel spins forward, then it is a positive traction. If they spin in the opposite direction, then it is not. I was wondering if it was the same with a manual trasmission? I am trying to figure what exactly I have. She's not ready for a burnout yet!!
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:28 PM   #39
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I understand that if you have an automatic trans and jack up the rear, spin the rear wheel forward and the opposite wheel spins forward, then it is a positive traction.
That depends on the type of posi. I believe that will hold true for all posi's that came from the factory in a 4th gen. Are we talking about a 4th gen? AFAIK, all 4th gen V8 cars had posi's.

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I was wondering if it was the same with a manual trasmission? I am trying to figure what exactly I have. She's not ready for a burnout yet!!
I would think that if the transmission is in gear and the clutch is engaged (so that the pinion yoke can't spin), it would be the same.

If the car is as it came from the factory, there are far easier ways to find out what you have.
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:55 AM   #40
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Just thought I would mention that my 1993 Camaro Z28/A4 has the original posi
rear in it, with 256,000 miles and plenty of abuse. I havent even changed the
fluid - ever. At this point I am afraid to touch it. My wifes 1995 Camaro Z28
toasted the rear end at 130k, about the same time as the 4L60E. We just got
a 1999 Camaro SS to replace the '95 (she was forced into the center divider
by an SUV) and I am swapping a 2.73 axle for the toasted 3.23 axle. The '99
has traction control, the 2000 Z28 rear I got doesnt. I was in the process of
doing the axle/backing plate swap (THIS WEEKEND) and I found this post. Its
good to know that we came to the same conclusion on that. The '99 blew a
pinion seal and lost fluid - so I suggest for people to remove the plug in the
side of the housing and make sure you can touch fluid.

Good info!

Tom
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Old 11-08-2008, 01:33 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by JakeRobb View Post
That depends on the type of posi. I believe that will hold true for all posi's that came from the factory in a 4th gen. Are we talking about a 4th gen? AFAIK, all 4th gen V8 cars had posi's.


I would think that if the transmission is in gear and the clutch is engaged (so that the pinion yoke can't spin), it would be the same.

If the car is as it came from the factory, there are far easier ways to find out what you have.
This is an oldie, but I want to say I just installed a Torsen axle that will spin the tires opposite.. it's a little jerky but not much it kinda feels like the brakes are dragging or warped is all. Torsens need a little torque to posi up... so just cause you can spin your tires opposite doesnt mean it's and open differential
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:28 AM   #42
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I appreciate this sticky. I've been on this website for 3 years now and I always love all the information there is available. Its really awesome!
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Old 01-06-2010, 03:31 AM   #43
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Rear ends

How much effort is involved in upgrading to a 10 bolt or a 9 inch Ford? I've had my 10 bolt out of the car for a fuel pump install. There's four large bolts to hold the torque arm to the carrier housing. Also, how about the emergency brake cable and brake backing plates? Any problems keeping it with disk brakes? What about the yoke for the universal joints?
All these questions lead me to believe that upgrading from the 10 bolt should be done by someone who knows the answers.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:41 PM   #44
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How much effort is involved in upgrading to a 10 bolt or a 9 inch Ford? .
Do you mean "upgrading to a 12-bolt"? If so, it is really plug-and-play. I have a writeup on installing a Strange 12-bolt. It comes with all the required brackets, including the mount for the torque arm, cast into the housing, just like your 10-bolt. The 9-inch requires a large bracket for mounting the TA, that bolts to three steel tubes welded to the housing.

http://www.injuneer.com/Strange12.html

Depending on your ultimate HP goals, you might also want to consider the Strange (Dana) 60. What HP levels are you looking at, and how is the car used?

Strange 12-bolt:

http://www.injuneer.com/images/photo.../DCP04302a.jpg

Moser 9-inch:

http://www.injuneer.com/images/photo.../DCP03870a.jpg
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:35 AM   #45
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Re: Rear End FAQ

Does anyone know the thickness of the spacer needed to but 3 series gears on a 2 series carrier? For a 10 bolt 7.5".

Last edited by ivan84gt; 11-09-2010 at 11:48 AM.
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