smackkk

So confusing...I just saw this recently posted at LS1.com


Word from Allen Miller who used to run State Capitol Dragway and now works closely with many people with NHRA is that the t-top rule will not take effect until January of 2004. He made some phone calls today to some top NHRA people to confirm this.


This was posted by a sponsor there. They are a sponsor here too.

JWINN

Wait until the time comes when you have a crash and the car ends up on the roof at 170mph sliding to a stop. Think twice before nocking the rule it just may save your life!

Stephen 87 IROC

Since when does a 12-13 second car do 170 mph? If you're going that fast, you already have a full roll cage and fire suit on no matter what kind of car you're in.

As for safety, The current ET break is 11.99 for a roll bar, 5 point harness and fire jacket. If a car can easily run 12.1, and not need the extra safety equipment, what makes you think it's still safe? After 50 years of setting safety requirements, the NHRA has determined what works and what doesn't by examining all types of dragstrip accidents. Many of the rules are just there to make racing fair and equal but specific safety rules were created after observing results of failures. Unless there's been a problem with safety with t-top cars running slower than 12 seconds, there's no justification to say they need a roll bar.

Why not say all convertibles reguardless of speed need a roll bar also? A 17 second convertible car doing 60-70 mph in the 1/4 mile without a rollbar is just as dangerous.

JWINN

Your missing the point and I never said a stocker running 170?

Ya I agree when your car only runs 12 to 13's its pretty hard to get turned on its lid or anything else for that matter. If my car only ran 12's or 13's I wouldn't even want to race it at the track. What fun would it be going that slow?

If you read what NHRA is considering that is: any T-top car running 11.99 and quicker must at that point have the mandated bars.

But for the most part, people here are not going to have to worry about the rule only a select few.

AL SS590 M6

No the rumor is that they want to mandate a 5 point bar and harness for any t-top car going faster than 13.99. That's what this thread is about.
AFAIK noone is griping about the current rule to have these items at 11.99.

Raptor1

Thank you! Yes, the rules are there for several reasons including fairness of competition. And when a new rule is initiated by the NHRA it is not done lightly without extensive thought, consideration and discussion and input from numerous member tracks. And it's usually implemented for several reasons - not just one.

As for the ET cut off of 13.99 for T-Top cars, personally I think that's a bit too high. The 11.99 (11.49 for IHRA) is more realistic. However, if you've ever seen a T-Top car roll 3 or 4 times at 100+ mph you may change your mind when comparing convertibles to T-Top cars. I've seen both roll at well over 100 mph and the end result isn't much different. In fact, the convertible had more of its "top" left on it than the T-Top car did. Not to mention all the extra broken glass flying around from the T-Top car.

Raptor1

Thank you! Yes, the rules are there for several reasons including fairness of competition. And when a new rule is initiated by the NHRA it is not done lightly without extensive thought, consideration and discussion and input from numerous member tracks. And it's usually implemented for several reasons - not just one.

As for the ET cut off of 13.99 for T-Top cars, personally I think that's a bit too high. The 11.99 (11.49 for IHRA) is more realistic. However, if you've ever seen a T-Top car roll 3 or 4 times at 100+ mph you may change your mind when comparing convertibles to T-Top cars. I've seen both roll at well over 100 mph and the end result isn't much different. In fact, the convertible had more of its "top" left on it than the T-Top car did. Not to mention all the extra broken glass flying around from the T-Top car.

rskrause

I think some of you are giving NHRA more credit that it deserves wrt the rationale for certain safety rules. First of all, it seems to me that in drag racing, mph is a more logical basis for deciding safety equipment minimums than ET, so right I away I think their approach is suspect. With that background, why don't they simply publish the data and the assumptions the various rules are based on, rather than let us guess? I don't want to sound paranoid, but I am a bit suspicious that the rules are less based on any kind of science than on expediency related to insurance costs. The insurance cost issue is valid, if that is the reason. I guess I'd just like to know what the reasons are.

BTW: My background includes involvement with transportation injury research.

Rich Krause

Raptor1

I disagree. Certainly no organization is perfect and everything we would want it to be. But the NHRA has been instrumental in establishing safety rules, guidelines and procedures from its inception, which at this point allows 300+ mph Top Fuel and Funny Car racing to be "reasonable" safe (all things considered). And they continue to do so with technology obtained not only from top NHRA teams, but from other forms of racing as well. These rules, guidelines and procedures are applied to the lower classes as necessary.


This is certainly a valid point, but one that has been hashed over by the NHRA for years. Class racing is based on various parameters including factored HP vs. weight, etc. The more the HP and the more the car weighs, the better chance there is to break something like axels and suspension components. Classifications such as factored HP and weight breaks are changed all the time as needed - also for various reasons; sometimes for safety - sometimes not.


They may or may not. If there is enough requests for an explanation of a rules change NHRA will give one. Once (if) a proposed rules change is implimented, you may get an explanation if you just call them.

The implied rule for T-Top cars may be something as simple as a few member tracks having had "incidents" with T-Top cars.

What kind of transportation (just curious)? Not trying to down-play your expertise, but even if it's with motor vehicles traversing on the streets and highways, I see little correlation between that and what happens on a race track.

JMO.

Kain

Having a hard top is paying off even more.

It's Cochese!

If you outlaw T-top cars, then you have to outlaw targa cars as well.

However, aside from the actual glass (plastic in some cases for the wise racer), t-tops in 4th gen cars are nearly identical in structural integrity as the hardtop. A thin sheet of metal is not going to protect you as much as you would like to think. There are plenty of ways to make the t-top car even safer besides the roll cage.

A lot of you may like the rule change for the track, but when people (GNs, F-bodies, older Corvettes, 240-300ZXs, NX2000s, Fox Mustangs, Cutlasses, MCs, etc) take to the street because they can't go to the track, when the bodies start piling up, then you can tell me about your 1% structural stability.

I was going to buy a LT1, but I'm not carving up my car and I'm not going to street race. I'll stick with Jeeps and 1st gens. Because as always, it looks like the NHRA is all about the money.

RacinLT1

in case you guys missed it,there is NO RULE CHANGE. it was discussed and that was it.

T TOP CARS ARE STILL CONSIDERED HARDTOPS

Releacez28

I seem to get get hassled at Epping for the battery and helmet as well. Seem's the tech guy enjoy's yanking for like five minutes on the thing. "you're batteries loose", Well yah you have been reeping on it for five minutes why wouldnt it be!
Anyway my point "The current rule calls for cars running 11.9 and quicker to have roll cages". That's fine i look forward to the day like all of us i'm sure when we add the cage for that reason alone breaking into the 11's.
But what in the hell would you put a roll cage on a 13.99 second car for? That's ridiculous, totally ridiculous! They want to keep racing off the streets? This isnt going to help, this is going to send most of us back to the streets or remain on the street to solve our disputes or what not! Or just to race because that's what i bought my f-car for to race anything and everthing becuase thats what i do, excuse me all of us do! (PLease correct me if i'am wrong!) This is both IHRA&NHRA right? .

94FBIRD

Jwinn, you're an idiot. ALL cars MUST have a roll bar when they are running quicker than 11.99 ETs. Coupes and t-tops. That is the current regulations. The rule change that was proposed was that t-top cars would be considered the same as convertibles which MUST have a roll bar when running quicker than a 13.99.

Reading comprehension OWNZ you!

Injuneer

And an elitist attitude to go along with the reading comprehension problem.....