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Old 03-20-2007, 11:04 AM   #1
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Popular Mechanics - Top 5 New Pickup Trucks: Comparison Test

Sometimes only a real, full-size truck will do the job. We test the latest models in the country's best-selling class of vehicle.

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Originally Posted by Popular Mechanic’s; March 2007 Issue
Few vehicles are so perfect for so many Americans as the full-size pickup. That's why these big haulers have perennially been our nation's best-selling vehicles. But now the creators of this quintessentially American icon — Ford, General Motors and Dodge — need to watch their rearview mirrors. Serious contenders from Nissan and Toyota have entered this last preserve of American market dominance with trucks of their own — trucks engineered and built here in the U.S. of A.

As these latest Japanese entries have grown in size and power, we decided to compare them to the domestic stalwarts. We gathered a Ford F-150 (the best-selling vehicle in the country), a Chevrolet Silverado, a Dodge Ram, a Toyota Tundra and a Nissan Titan. We specified the roomiest four-door cabs, biggest engines and, since half of all pickups sold are 4wd, that's how we got them. We track tested each empty and with 1000 pounds of sandbags in the cargo bed. We used them on road and off. Here's what we found…
Article here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...06.html?page=1
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:45 AM   #2
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Hmm, seems like they almost ranked them according to their acceleration times. The 4-speed and 3 second power delay really hurt the Chevy in this test.
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:22 AM   #3
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I'm not really sure what their criteria was, other than quarter mile times the rest was purely subjective. I find it interesting that they liked the Silverado better in every category that a buyer like me would actually consider important..such as comfort, ride, interior quality (after all, that is where I spend my time in my Silverado LT, not at a dragstrip)...yet they only seem to really care about how quick they are...noting the Titan only bested the Tundra because they were essentially tied for quickness...though both have notably cheap interiors and harsher rides. All appear to be able to tow the same, and have roughly the same capacities.

That test is a joke...and no better than the silly discussions I have with my Toyota leg-humper buddies daily based purely on opinions.

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Old 03-21-2007, 12:43 PM   #4
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So why did they use the Quad Cab Ram instead of the MegaCab, but used the MAxxCab on the Tundra? There is a reason the rear seats in the Ram had less room than everyone else, they didn't run a comparable truck.

Also, how did they get the price at 47k? I went to Dodges website and even without the rebate and every option checked under the sun; including rear seat DVD, shift on the fly transfer case, and anything else you can think of, I didn't get 47k.
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Old 03-23-2007, 09:16 PM   #5
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Excessive subjectivity.
Loss of credibility.
Automatic first down.
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Old 03-23-2007, 10:42 PM   #6
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There is nothing wrong with "subjective" testing. "Objective" criteria only goes so far and is never sufficient to "tell the whole story" of a particular vehicle...I'm sure most here would agree that there is far more to a Camaro or Corvette than the "numbers" they can post in any given category.

It's also true, as most here know, that most of the car buying decision is based on "subjective" criteria and rarely anything else.

I suspect the main problem with the article is not the criteria used, subjective or otherwise, but simply that the Silverado didn't win...had Chevy won the day I'm sure you would all be declaring how fair and unbiased the test was!
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Old 03-24-2007, 02:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Robert_Nashville View Post
There is nothing wrong with "subjective" testing. "Objective" criteria only goes so far and is never sufficient to "tell the whole story" of a particular vehicle...I'm sure most here would agree that there is far more to a Camaro or Corvette than the "numbers" they can post in any given category.

It's also true, as most here know, that most of the car buying decision is based on "subjective" criteria and rarely anything else.

I suspect the main problem with the article is not the criteria used, subjective or otherwise, but simply that the Silverado didn't win...had Chevy won the day I'm sure you would all be declaring how fair and unbiased the test was!
Did you read the article, or are you just trying to stir the pot? Every post you make is intentionally argumentative because you know how people will react to you.
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Old 03-24-2007, 02:27 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Robert_Nashville View Post
There is nothing wrong with "subjective" testing. "Objective" criteria only goes so far and is never sufficient to "tell the whole story" of a particular vehicle...I'm sure most here would agree that there is far more to a Camaro or Corvette than the "numbers" they can post in any given category.

It's also true, as most here know, that most of the car buying decision is based on "subjective" criteria and rarely anything else.

I suspect the main problem with the article is not the criteria used, subjective or otherwise, but simply that the Silverado didn't win...had Chevy won the day I'm sure you would all be declaring how fair and unbiased the test was!
will i agree some subjectiveness is good it seems like the majority of this test was subjective. i always seem to have a problem with these test where i find a lot of problems with them no matter who admisters them.

i notice a lot of people doing drag race comparisons on the new trucks loaded and unloaded. how many people on here do serious towing? i have and thouse test are about as usefull as dirt comparing trucks. most of thouse trucks on there would blow the doors off my current truck but when towing its useless. if you have half a brain your not gona mash the gas down while your towing a trailer or you will suffer load shifting and damage your load or hurt animals. most people with half a brain take there time when towing stuff.

it was an interesting read and i wouldnt put much wieght into one magazine artical i usually find it use full to read a buch of them.

oh and robert im supprised your alright with subjectiveness in this artical i rember you compalining about people being subjective all the time
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Old 03-24-2007, 06:11 AM   #9
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will i agree some subjectiveness is good it seems like the majority of this test was subjective. i always seem to have a problem with these test where i find a lot of problems with them no matter who admisters them.

i notice a lot of people doing drag race comparisons on the new trucks loaded and unloaded. how many people on here do serious towing? i have and thouse test are about as usefull as dirt comparing trucks. most of thouse trucks on there would blow the doors off my current truck but when towing its useless. if you have half a brain your not gona mash the gas down while your towing a trailer or you will suffer load shifting and damage your load or hurt animals. most people with half a brain take there time when towing stuff.

it was an interesting read and i wouldnt put much wieght into one magazine artical i usually find it use full to read a buch of them.

oh and robert im supprised your alright with subjectiveness in this artical i rember you compalining about people being subjective all the time
"Subjectiveness" and "subjective testing" are not exactly the same thing...what I think you'll find me complaining about are those who will refuse to use (or provide) objective measurements in a discussion when the objective facts don't support their subjective opinions or those who refuse to believe published numers/results because the numbers diverge from their opinions.

Specifically for this article, my take on it was that PM was trying to judge the trucks primairly on how they "appeal" to most buyers...if that's the case then most of their conclusions would have to be subjective because, as I said, most buying decisions are made for subjective reasons.

Frankly, I was surprised the Titan won...mine (which I just traded yesterday) provided me with trouble-free service...I liked the power and it was surprisingly comfortable/enjoyable to travel in...but given it's a five year old design and that the interior is nothing special (as the article pointed out); I would have thought any/all but perhaps the Dodge would have placed higher.
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Old 03-24-2007, 10:22 AM   #10
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thats fair enogh robert. but i still dont put much weight in the ranking stucture of these maggazines. although the information might be good on part of the readers like you said looking at what there looking for they still out there to me. your better off reading the articals information and ingonring the rank.

i rember reading an artical i forgot who did it where a magazine took a hand full of economey cars and tested them. the test included cost, fuel economey, interior quality, braking, acceleration, handleing, ride quality, and maybe a hand full of other things. but every thing was worth about the same in points. where as two me the 2 most improtant things would be fuel economy and cost.


what you trade it in for another titan robert or you trying something else.
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Old 03-24-2007, 02:31 PM   #11
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what you trade it in for another titan robert or you trying something else.
Well, I sold my '04 350Z a few days ago and I have an '07 on order; it should be here in late June/early July...I had it listed on eBay for only one day before a guy made me an offer I accepted (had I known it woudl be that easy I would have waited a month or two until closer to the time my replacement would be here as it means I won't be doing any autocrossing the first half of the season this year!)...I replaced the Titan with an '07 Infiniti QX56.

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Old 03-25-2007, 11:32 PM   #12
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Edmunds Inside Line
By Jason Kavanagh, Engineering Editor Email | Blog
Date posted: 01-22-2007


Power struggle

...............
...In this comparison of half-ton pickups, the acceleration results we logged begged the question: Did Chevy bring a knife to a gunfight?

Not on paper. Equipped with the optional pushrod 6.0-liter L76 V8 rated at 367 horsepower and 375 pound-feet, our Silverado is packing a full 50 hp more than the quicker Titan. Sure, the Chevy's automatic transmission has only four speeds to the Nissan's five, but 50 hp is 50 hp. Were the Silverado's ponies asleep, or were Nissan's horses on steroids, or both?..........



Full power in 4... 3... 2... 1...
Of the three trucks we tested on the dyno, only the Silverado produced inconsistent results that appeared curiously low across nearly the entire rev range. Most unexpected was a power spike just before redline.

Although the spike resulted in a peak of 297 hp at the wheels — about right for the rated 367 hp at the flywheel, once drivetrain loss is factored in — the Silverado's measured power appeared to be underachieving everywhere else in the rev range.

In fact, the Chevy produces significantly less power than the Titan for the duration of the dyno test until the Chevy finally surpasses the Titan's peak of 291 hp at the wheels.

As it turns out, the explanation boils down to an engine calibration strategy. GM calibrated the 367-hp 6.0-liter V8 to remain in stoichiometric "closed-loop" fuel delivery mode for 4 seconds after the throttle is floored. This fueling strategy helps keep emissions in check (and saves fuel) at the expense of reduced power — about 40 hp less at the peak. Once the driver lifts his right foot from the wide-open throttle position, the 4-second clock resets.

This explains why the Silverado's power is low everywhere on the graph right up to the jump in power right before redline. Corresponding to the expiration of the 4-second window, the jump in power is indicative of the engine switching to open-loop "power enrichment" mode. It is only when operating in this mode that the engine delivers its full rated power.

Release the hounds
On the road, the Silverado's full advertised power will be on tap during extended full-throttle conditions such as towing, or any other situation in which the throttle is floored for more than 4 seconds.

Be aware, however, that the Silverado's horsepower herd will be thinned out during all but the most prolonged wide-open throttle squirts around town. And with an empty bed and no trailer, 4 seconds is a fairly long time to have the throttle matted.

Now that the Silverado mystery is solved, is the Titan pumping out more power than Nissan claims? Probably a bit. With a factory rating of 317 hp, the Titan's dead-consistent 291 hp at the wheels is on the robust side. We're curious if all 2007 Titans are similarly stout.

Torque to me, baby
Peak torque isn't present on the dyno graphs you see here because the Titan and Tundra were eager to downshift during testing. As a result, we had to begin their dyno pulls at engine speeds above those corresponding to peak torque.

With its wide-ratio four-speed transmission and general reluctance to downshift, we were able to capture the Silverado's torque peak of 271 lb-ft at 4,430 rpm. This value, of course, is hamstrung by the 4-second calibration mode described above.

Emissions?...Sounds like a warantee money saver to me...God, I hope there's an aftermarket over-ride for this!..
No wonder it's 2 or more seconds slower...
Wonder if what they lose in "perception" will be made back in warantee reductions..
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Old 03-26-2007, 07:50 AM   #13
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That's just about the most lame truck comparison i've ever seen...

Unfortunately when you get a bunch of people that have never "used" a truck, they tend to try to compare them like cars and they are two totally different animals.

A Truck is a Truck, not a car; so I don't understand why they compare them the same...

I'm not saying that with different criteria the Chevy would have won or not; but it would at least be worth reading.
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Old 03-26-2007, 11:49 AM   #14
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Emissions?...Sounds like a warantee money saver to me...God, I hope there's an aftermarket over-ride for this!..
No wonder it's 2 or more seconds slower...
Wonder if what they lose in "perception" will be made back in warantee reductions..
This issue (of GM keeping full power off for several seconds) has been talked about in other threads..the question I've never seen asked, however, is why GM is doing this?

What I mean by that is, everyone else making a full-sized truck seems to be able to meet emission standards and reasonable MPG (for a 1/2 ton truck) without sacrificing power/when the power comes on; why isn't GM? Is there some reason why they have to take this approach or did they just take the easy (least expensive) way out? Does this give them enough of an MPG and/or "clean" advantage to be worth them being able to make hay of that fact in advertising?
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Old 03-26-2007, 11:59 AM   #15
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That's just about the most lame truck comparison i've ever seen...

Unfortunately when you get a bunch of people that have never "used" a truck, they tend to try to compare them like cars and they are two totally different animals.

A Truck is a Truck, not a car; so I don't understand why they compare them the same...

I'm not saying that with different criteria the Chevy would have won or not; but it would at least be worth reading.
I know you'll find this surprising but I disagree.

I know that there are a core group of truck buyers who have to have a pick-up...who don't care about how fancy the interior is or how many cup holders there are, etc...but as I've said before, the real growth in the pick-up truck market over the past 15-20 years have been those buyers who "want" a pick-up truck, not because they "need" one...these buyers ARE buying these trucks to, essentially, be their "car"...while they may occasionally tow something or haul something in the bed they certianly don't have to have a truck in their driveway to meet their occasional needs.

That said, there is nothing wrong with an article evaluating a truck with a much wider cross-section of buyers in mind.

The fact that the criteria used may not apply to a certain segment of buyers doesn't invalidate the article or the testing.

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Old 03-26-2007, 11:59 AM
 
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