hate to say it, IMPORTS are the hot rods of today..5th gen has to be packaged as so..
07-26-2002, 05:18 PM
#1
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New England
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hate to say it, IMPORTS are the hot rods of today..5th gen has to be packaged as so..
now before you flame me or rip me a new one.
Im talking about import tuners..NOT RICERS but actual fast imports, they are out there!.
get what IM saying..
When the Muscle car wars went on in the 60's it was mostly small cars to midsize ones that were stuffed with HUGE engines..big HP numbers and all that..back in the 60's these cars were small "compacts" that went fast..compared to say a 60's Lincoln Continental, Caddy Eldo or even an Olds or Buick of that time..HUGE cars..
well with Importers (NOT RICERS) the same thing goes on now..they have these tiny little cars..and at first they had no HP but the kids bought turbos, superchargers and this and that and stuffing bigger engines into these little cars.."hot rodding them" and the import car makers supported them offering all the go fast stuff...now I know there is the rice scene too neon this and blinking that..but im talking about 17 second cars that now go 12's..those imports..
and the factory is backing them like crazzy... WRX, 350Z, RSX Type-S..stuff like that..may not be hell on earth but what they are comparing them to the normal Celicas and Camrys and Accords and such they are faster then them..so what Im getting at is that the new 5th gen has to break into the "small car" market again...a pony car persay..
take something the size of the Cavileir or for RWD purpose and possibility the CTS Caddy..small agile and can fit a variety of engines in its engine bay..
make it appealing..you want spoilers..fine you want ground affect cool..you want badging go for it..wheels sure..exhaust that too..Customize your new Camaro from the factory..just like the old days..
order your engine size..V6 supercharged V6 LS1 LS6 you decide..and go from there..offer alot of choices.boy racer too actual MUSCLE CAR.with style and performance..trim levels..V6,RS,Z28,SS,RS/SS and you got a winner.
but got to make it small compact and stuffed with economy and convenience and if ordered the most brutal engine you can cram in the engine bay to prove that this spoiler and ground effects are on there for a reason
anyone want to chime in..but I think we got to go with what they got now and what started it a long time ago..which we abandodned..
------------------
thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.
http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com
Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags
Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu
Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!
Im talking about import tuners..NOT RICERS but actual fast imports, they are out there!.
get what IM saying..
When the Muscle car wars went on in the 60's it was mostly small cars to midsize ones that were stuffed with HUGE engines..big HP numbers and all that..back in the 60's these cars were small "compacts" that went fast..compared to say a 60's Lincoln Continental, Caddy Eldo or even an Olds or Buick of that time..HUGE cars..
well with Importers (NOT RICERS) the same thing goes on now..they have these tiny little cars..and at first they had no HP but the kids bought turbos, superchargers and this and that and stuffing bigger engines into these little cars.."hot rodding them" and the import car makers supported them offering all the go fast stuff...now I know there is the rice scene too neon this and blinking that..but im talking about 17 second cars that now go 12's..those imports..
and the factory is backing them like crazzy... WRX, 350Z, RSX Type-S..stuff like that..may not be hell on earth but what they are comparing them to the normal Celicas and Camrys and Accords and such they are faster then them..so what Im getting at is that the new 5th gen has to break into the "small car" market again...a pony car persay..
take something the size of the Cavileir or for RWD purpose and possibility the CTS Caddy..small agile and can fit a variety of engines in its engine bay..
make it appealing..you want spoilers..fine you want ground affect cool..you want badging go for it..wheels sure..exhaust that too..Customize your new Camaro from the factory..just like the old days..
order your engine size..V6 supercharged V6 LS1 LS6 you decide..and go from there..offer alot of choices.boy racer too actual MUSCLE CAR.with style and performance..trim levels..V6,RS,Z28,SS,RS/SS and you got a winner.
but got to make it small compact and stuffed with economy and convenience and if ordered the most brutal engine you can cram in the engine bay to prove that this spoiler and ground effects are on there for a reason
anyone want to chime in..but I think we got to go with what they got now and what started it a long time ago..which we abandodned..
------------------
thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.
http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com
Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags
Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu
Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!
07-26-2002, 05:48 PM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Houston, TX USA
Posts: 681
All those engine choices make it extremely impractical. If they want to make volume money off the pocket-rocket market then they'll sell a pocket rocket! Look at this from GM's point of view. And REMEMBER that this is GM! Don't trust them to get it right. Keep voicing your opinions!
07-26-2002, 06:30 PM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,873
A lot of people freak out at the suggestion of a "smaller" Camaro...
But a smaller size (like "Mustang Sized") makes the car much more appealing to both enthusiasts and the general public. Nobody wants a giant, heavy, ponderous sports car that is difficult to see out of and park.
That's one of the reasons the current models sales are so bad.
PS: Remember the current Camaro is a Subcompact based on its interior volume. It would not have to decrease by making the car smaller.
------------------
If it breaks, it wasn't high performance enough.
2001 Mustang Bullitt GT
2000 Jetta M5
But a smaller size (like "Mustang Sized") makes the car much more appealing to both enthusiasts and the general public. Nobody wants a giant, heavy, ponderous sports car that is difficult to see out of and park.
That's one of the reasons the current models sales are so bad.
PS: Remember the current Camaro is a Subcompact based on its interior volume. It would not have to decrease by making the car smaller.
------------------
If it breaks, it wasn't high performance enough.
2001 Mustang Bullitt GT
2000 Jetta M5
07-26-2002, 10:16 PM
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,504
I would agree to smaller overhangs, and I could stomach the car being slightly smaller, but Camaro needs to remain a bigger car. It's part of it's presence.
I don't want a Honda Civic with a V8 in it... I want a Camaro ...
I don't want a Honda Civic with a V8 in it... I want a Camaro ...
07-26-2002, 10:28 PM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,749
Darth you are right..as far as everything goes..but it apears to look bigger..and so the bigger look dosnt fit in with todays "fast" car look..the stang and Camaro are about the same size but the packaging is totally diffrent and you get a diffrent size car in apearance..know what I mean..or any car for that fact..look at the eclipse..or the tiburon...actually if the Camaro was the size of the Tiburon or Eclipse it would be a good start...but HAS TO HAVE A TRUNK!!!! more square to make it not look like Vette light..ya know...make it a muscle car..actually take a cue from the GTO concept from a few years back..BAD AS$ car looks wise..looked like it was always ready to go and kick some..ya know..even if they did that kinda stylin it would be bold in your face and going to rip it off one tread mark at a time...and it wasnt retro it was deffinatly an evolution of the GTO..its gotta have a rebel attitude..I think the rebel attitude left in the 4th gen and made it more of a mans man auto..not something that kids go WOW..I want that car! it was not apealing..if you have one people go WOW..but think it was too much $$ and bought the old eclipse instead..
------------------
thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.
http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com
Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags
Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu
Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!
------------------
thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.
http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com
Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags
Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu
Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!
07-26-2002, 10:45 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,749
yea but thats because of stupid overhangs of the rear and front fenders...way to long..4" off the back and the front would do wonders visually..but I mean wheel base is almost identical to the Camaro..just shorter in overall apearance..therefor looking bigger as someone passing by saing thats a huge car compared to a mustang..and not being able to see out of it good enough..thats all..I mean face value the Camaro is a bigger car..but wheel base they are they are the same for the most part..and should be.. 
------------------
thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.
http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com
Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags
Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu
Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!
------------------
thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.
http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com
Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags
Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu
Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!
07-27-2002, 01:38 AM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: At car shows and cruise nights!
Posts: 3,647
IMPORTS are the hot rods of today?! LOL
I don't think so!! Maybe stupid people might think that (how they could I'll never know) but they aren't and never will be.
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 27, 2002).]
I don't think so!! Maybe stupid people might think that (how they could I'll never know) but they aren't and never will be.
[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 27, 2002).]
07-27-2002, 03:21 AM
#10
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 13
I absolutely have to respond to this, although I have to admit that I, a Man who always has a direct opinion to boldly state on any subject, don't even know where to start.
First of all, show me a 'Hot Rodded' 12-second Import of any kind that cost less than a new Z06 to build, and I'll agree with everything you said.
However, every '12-second' Import I've ever seen was a $3,000 Civic with $40,000 worth of exotic parts under the hood. Several I've seen have been basically completely home-built engines based on the original block, yet every single component was redesigned and custom-built in a shop at $100 per hour. If I'm wrong, please send me links to writeups on these 12-second Imports that the average Teenager can afford. Or get me a ride in one. I want to meet the Kid that's working at Taco Bell on the weekends and still going to High School, and has a 12-second Civic. You're comparing the Imports to REAL Musclecars, and I can show you a Teenager GearHead that works at Burger King while still keeping good enough grades to get to college who has a Buick that does 12's that he built on a Burger King budget. It's hideously ugly, and he can't afford a laptop to tune it with, but he knows what it's like to drive a Muscle Car!!! The fast Imports I've seen have been driven by rich kids who haven't worked a day in their lives, carrying a laptop to the track that cost more than the entire engine in my car.
DON'T compare the two. I am obviously Anti-Import, but why can't people see that the two are totally different worlds??? If you want GM to enter this FAD market, write them and ask them to build the Cavalier you talked about. Offer aftermarket turbo kits for the Ford Focus and Pontiac Sunfire. Leave the good Camaro Name out of it. The Camaro is a Muscle Car. Imports are NOT. The Camaro is a tire-burning torque monster that is FUN to drive because of its brute strength, RWD, and the feeling you get when the acceleration smashes you into your seat. Imports sound like a chainsaw, spin the FRONT tires off the line only because FWD cars have all of the laws of Physics working AGAINST them when you try to make them go fast, and at best have some ultra-high revving horsepower to get them down the track in any respectable amount of time. Torque? The Import crowd has never heard of it!
Please, please let's try to keep the two concepts as different as MuscleCars and Snowmobiles when it comes to racing. They are absolutely, completely different worlds, dynamics, crowds, and concepts. Why compare steak to fast-food burgers and offend steak lovers everywhere? Sure, when you're in a hurry, you haven't eaten for days, you just swallowed a mouthful of gas while siphoning enough fuel out of your lawnmower to get to town with a gas can to put 5 gallons of premium in your latest project before firing it up, a McDonald's burger tastes GREAT!!! But only because the gas in your mouth has made you delusional and your Camaro has been under the knife for 2 weekends!
I would rather see us keep MuscleCars alive as we all know and love them, although I'm not saying we need to keep drum brakes and solid rear axles. Let them evolve in their own direction. And let Imports evolve in theirs as well. When the day comes that the Import FAD has evolved to the point that I can buy a used Civic and put $2,000 worth of simple bolt-ons into it, drive it to the track and run 12's, then drive it to work the next morning without spending the night in it with a laptop recalibrating it, I'll have some respect for Imports. Until then, I'm sticking with my Camaro. I spent $9,000 on it used and in Mint Condition, and have yet to be beat by an Import, a Ricer, an SUV, or even a Mustang. ALL of the above are lurking around on the streets somewhere in a form that COULD beat me (A $40,000 Mazda RX-7, a V-Tec Civic with $50,000 worth of exotic, hand-built motor and trans under the hood, a Typhoon, or a '93 Cobra Mustang...) but the times that I come up against any of these will be very few and far between! And with the exception of the Typhoon, all will have a LOT more cash invested in their rides than I have. Put that $2,000 worth of simple bolt-on mods I spoke of into my Camaro, and all of the above drop from the list of real contenders except that Ultra-$$$ Civic. And there will always be one of those out there, just like there's an Ultra-$$$ '72 Nova 4-door out there somewhere too... But I'm not too worried about running into either of them any time soon.
OK, now look what you made me do!!! It's 3am and I have to be up at 7am to take care of my Son!!! (Saturdays are Mom's day to rest so I get up with him and we go eat breakfast at Denny's... He's almost 2, and LOVES my Camaro! Whenever I get on it, he says, "Voom, Voom!", and when I do a really loud or smoky burnout, he actually claps his hands and laughs!!! Thank Goodness I was able to get him into a Camaro before some bizarre twist of fate put him in a Civic or a MiniVan!!!) However, this topic is far too important to HIS future as well as mine to have let this wait until morning.
Sure, Imports are here to stay like any FAD, but let's not get all blasphemous and compare them to MuscleCars or Baseball or Apple Pie. Imports deserve to have their fun too, but in a controlled environment, like skateboarding or snowboarding, or stunt-bicycle riding. In other words, let's keep the infection contained as long as possible, and if we're lucky it will die out before it runs rampant and infects enough people to really matter, or Heaven forbid that it start infecting real MuscleCar enthusiasts! When your Uncle Jake trades in the '70 Firebird that he spent 7 years of his life restoring and buys a Honda Civic to 'Hot Rod' with, we will all know that the end of the World is near.
I absolutely must get some sleep. I look forward to your response. Please be as harsh as you feel necessary. This is a topic that must be worked out immediately, entirely, and with Honor. (Would Lieutenant-Commander Warf be more likely to be seen behind the wheel of a Honda Civic or a Hemi 'Cuda???)
Please remember, I may get upset at times, but I'm also here to help you in your time of personal crisis and emotional turmoil. I think we all question our existance at some point or another, but posting a Bill of Rights for Imports on the 'CamaaroZ28' BBS is simply a cry for help. Hold on, there is help for your problem!!!
Cheers,
Scott
------------------
www.RigdonHome.com
1995 LT1 Z28
First of all, show me a 'Hot Rodded' 12-second Import of any kind that cost less than a new Z06 to build, and I'll agree with everything you said.
However, every '12-second' Import I've ever seen was a $3,000 Civic with $40,000 worth of exotic parts under the hood. Several I've seen have been basically completely home-built engines based on the original block, yet every single component was redesigned and custom-built in a shop at $100 per hour. If I'm wrong, please send me links to writeups on these 12-second Imports that the average Teenager can afford. Or get me a ride in one. I want to meet the Kid that's working at Taco Bell on the weekends and still going to High School, and has a 12-second Civic. You're comparing the Imports to REAL Musclecars, and I can show you a Teenager GearHead that works at Burger King while still keeping good enough grades to get to college who has a Buick that does 12's that he built on a Burger King budget. It's hideously ugly, and he can't afford a laptop to tune it with, but he knows what it's like to drive a Muscle Car!!! The fast Imports I've seen have been driven by rich kids who haven't worked a day in their lives, carrying a laptop to the track that cost more than the entire engine in my car.
DON'T compare the two. I am obviously Anti-Import, but why can't people see that the two are totally different worlds??? If you want GM to enter this FAD market, write them and ask them to build the Cavalier you talked about. Offer aftermarket turbo kits for the Ford Focus and Pontiac Sunfire. Leave the good Camaro Name out of it. The Camaro is a Muscle Car. Imports are NOT. The Camaro is a tire-burning torque monster that is FUN to drive because of its brute strength, RWD, and the feeling you get when the acceleration smashes you into your seat. Imports sound like a chainsaw, spin the FRONT tires off the line only because FWD cars have all of the laws of Physics working AGAINST them when you try to make them go fast, and at best have some ultra-high revving horsepower to get them down the track in any respectable amount of time. Torque? The Import crowd has never heard of it!
Please, please let's try to keep the two concepts as different as MuscleCars and Snowmobiles when it comes to racing. They are absolutely, completely different worlds, dynamics, crowds, and concepts. Why compare steak to fast-food burgers and offend steak lovers everywhere? Sure, when you're in a hurry, you haven't eaten for days, you just swallowed a mouthful of gas while siphoning enough fuel out of your lawnmower to get to town with a gas can to put 5 gallons of premium in your latest project before firing it up, a McDonald's burger tastes GREAT!!! But only because the gas in your mouth has made you delusional and your Camaro has been under the knife for 2 weekends!
I would rather see us keep MuscleCars alive as we all know and love them, although I'm not saying we need to keep drum brakes and solid rear axles. Let them evolve in their own direction. And let Imports evolve in theirs as well. When the day comes that the Import FAD has evolved to the point that I can buy a used Civic and put $2,000 worth of simple bolt-ons into it, drive it to the track and run 12's, then drive it to work the next morning without spending the night in it with a laptop recalibrating it, I'll have some respect for Imports. Until then, I'm sticking with my Camaro. I spent $9,000 on it used and in Mint Condition, and have yet to be beat by an Import, a Ricer, an SUV, or even a Mustang. ALL of the above are lurking around on the streets somewhere in a form that COULD beat me (A $40,000 Mazda RX-7, a V-Tec Civic with $50,000 worth of exotic, hand-built motor and trans under the hood, a Typhoon, or a '93 Cobra Mustang...) but the times that I come up against any of these will be very few and far between! And with the exception of the Typhoon, all will have a LOT more cash invested in their rides than I have. Put that $2,000 worth of simple bolt-on mods I spoke of into my Camaro, and all of the above drop from the list of real contenders except that Ultra-$$$ Civic. And there will always be one of those out there, just like there's an Ultra-$$$ '72 Nova 4-door out there somewhere too... But I'm not too worried about running into either of them any time soon.
OK, now look what you made me do!!! It's 3am and I have to be up at 7am to take care of my Son!!! (Saturdays are Mom's day to rest so I get up with him and we go eat breakfast at Denny's... He's almost 2, and LOVES my Camaro! Whenever I get on it, he says, "Voom, Voom!", and when I do a really loud or smoky burnout, he actually claps his hands and laughs!!! Thank Goodness I was able to get him into a Camaro before some bizarre twist of fate put him in a Civic or a MiniVan!!!) However, this topic is far too important to HIS future as well as mine to have let this wait until morning.
Sure, Imports are here to stay like any FAD, but let's not get all blasphemous and compare them to MuscleCars or Baseball or Apple Pie. Imports deserve to have their fun too, but in a controlled environment, like skateboarding or snowboarding, or stunt-bicycle riding. In other words, let's keep the infection contained as long as possible, and if we're lucky it will die out before it runs rampant and infects enough people to really matter, or Heaven forbid that it start infecting real MuscleCar enthusiasts! When your Uncle Jake trades in the '70 Firebird that he spent 7 years of his life restoring and buys a Honda Civic to 'Hot Rod' with, we will all know that the end of the World is near.
I absolutely must get some sleep. I look forward to your response. Please be as harsh as you feel necessary. This is a topic that must be worked out immediately, entirely, and with Honor. (Would Lieutenant-Commander Warf be more likely to be seen behind the wheel of a Honda Civic or a Hemi 'Cuda???)
Please remember, I may get upset at times, but I'm also here to help you in your time of personal crisis and emotional turmoil. I think we all question our existance at some point or another, but posting a Bill of Rights for Imports on the 'CamaaroZ28' BBS is simply a cry for help. Hold on, there is help for your problem!!!
Cheers,
Scott
------------------
www.RigdonHome.com
1995 LT1 Z28
07-27-2002, 09:22 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 6,166
I don't think the F-body has a problem being "hot-roddable" now anyway. How many bone-stock V8 F-bodies are out there? Not many in my area anyway. Chances are if you buy a performance Camaro you're going to be looking to improve upon it. Parts are plentiful and while the underhood space of 4th Gens makes the task more intimidating, it isn't enough to make a person who knows what he's doing give up. How much room is under the hood of a Civic anyway? Not much!
Again it's a case of 2 different markets. I disagree about the import performance market as being a fad. Perhaps a couple years ago I would've agreed. Rice could be a fad but truly fast imports like the turbo Supras aren't going away anytime soon.
------------------
Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.
Again it's a case of 2 different markets. I disagree about the import performance market as being a fad. Perhaps a couple years ago I would've agreed. Rice could be a fad but truly fast imports like the turbo Supras aren't going away anytime soon.
------------------
Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.
07-27-2002, 11:19 AM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New England
Posts: 3,749
okay can we clarify a few things..
Hot rodding: to boost a cars performan by adding high performance parts to a car.
Every guy that wants a fast car does it..since cars were invented till now..american or import..its hot rodded..hot rods were done before muscle cars..dropping big 350's into 32 fords for example..power adders and such..to any car..a car with mods that make it faster than stock is a hot rod, per say..
and if the moniker belongs to just american cars what about Shelby AC Cobras or Sunbeam tigers? Brit cars HOT RODDED with 289 Ford V8's..thats hot rodding, and they are imports.....are they not hot rods??
so IZ28..if a car from any country that has say 190HP from the factory and you give it say another 200HP so its doing 390HP..is that not hot rodded???
Can we hot rod the new GTO?? its an Import after all...from australia
RigdonHome...thanks for the response. good repy.. well in your description about a $3000 civic with $40K in mods..well right there its under what a new Z06 vette cost..they cost 50K around here..
there are some mid 90's Eclipses running 12's for not too much cash involved..and they are on this board...alot of DMS guys are on here. they have 12 second cars for cheep.modded and they are running 12's.just like GN. Supra 30K..put another 10K in and your doing 12's...WRX I saw one 25K to buy and 12K worth of mods..hes running 12.7 at the track...
you also say home built engines and such ..well dont we do that too? Sure it cost them more but we are not paying for the parts they are and thats what they want..If its like that why dont we all stop modding our F-Body's and buy Z06 vettes..over time I might sink $20K into my Z but I could go put a down payment on a new Z06 or Lightning for that fact..Hot Rod a Lightning and your running faster than a Z06 and its a TRUCK..
and if you read again I NEVER said that imports are muscle cars.they are not....they are the hot rods of today. that is what I said..HOT RODS..performance parts added to make them faster!.not muscle cars...
and to point out the average teenager, do they own a Z06 or a new SS or could afford one..no..so they buy an old car..weather it be a Camaro vette or in the case of the kid yo uknow a GN..and gets the results..12 seconds..same kid working at McD's can do the same to say an old Supra..mod it out and make it in the 12's...
and yes I agree the rich kids drive the insane imports..sure..always happens..even back in the day..you save up the $$$ to buy a nice car say a used 68 Camaro..nothing special but its fast and nice..and the rich kid across the street buys a brand new Baldwin Motion Camaro..or a yenko..the rich always have the bucks to make the big image..thats what they can do..and we have to sit and wait for the price to come down to what they can buy new..
Yes I know they are in totally diffrent worlds..I agree and thats why the Camaro and Firebird dont compare and are getting discontinued..kids dont buy Fodys anymore..they go for the cheep "looks fast" imports..mod them out to run with us older guys that have the Z or SS or WS6..and they try and try and try till they get enough parts to put on there car..or should I say hot rod there car to make it just as fast as a FBody..
ANd this is a very big FAD..and has lasted more than 10 years now...its not going away any time soon..you can disagree but unless Imports are outlawed then they will be here.
and just a side note..over in Japan they have some cars that will smoke our revered Z06 vette...just a word of caution..they might be here soon..the "muscle cars" of Japan..look over to England and see the Focus they got there that SVT dosnt want yo uto know about...up there with the 2000 Cobra..a FOCUS...and a Ford..
[lease, please let's try to keep the two concepts as different as MuscleCars and Snowmobiles when it comes to racing.]
again I never said Muscle cars..I said hot rods..
[I would rather see us keep MuscleCars alive as we all know and love them, although I'm not saying we need to keep drum brakes and solid rear axles. Let them evolve in their own direction. And let Imports evolve in theirs as well. When the day comes that the Import FAD has evolved to the point that I can buy a used Civic and put $2,000 worth of simple bolt-ons into it, drive it to the track and run 12's, then drive it to work the next morning without spending the night in it with a laptop recalibrating it, I'll have some respect for Imports. ]
I have almost put $2000 grand into my car and still havnt reached 12's reliably..yea I could buy a 200HP nitrous kit and frag my engine after 10 runs..but I hanvt cracked 12's yet..
you talk about the typhoon and 93 Cobra and such...the typhoon is fast as an LT1 STOCK! I know I raced a few..and they are fast trucks..
just to point out you payed 9K for your car and are going to mod it..I payed 15K for mine 6 years ago and modded it..why thats our choice of cars..and you know what you will get smoked by the new Nissan 350Z..its as fast as a LS-1 Camaro..
the old addage..there is always someone out there faster than you..
and if they have the $$$ they will be faster..and there are alot of WANNA BE'S too..thinking there fast..as with alot of car owners..
[
Imports are here to stay like any FAD, but let's not get all blasphemous and compare them to MuscleCars or Baseball or Apple Pie]
and again you mention I am comparing them to muscle cars..NEVER SAID THAT..they are hot rodded...thats what I said...
sorry to say but the LAST muscle car now is the MUSTANG...the one survivor of the 60's..muscle cars are all but extinct now from the factory..untill new ones come out..GTO??
ohh wait is the GTO a hot rod..its an Import.. get my point...just cus its not american dosnt mean its not hot rod material..
and YES MUSCLE CAR is an AMERICAN car..Chevelle, Camaro, Nova, Cuda, Mustang, GTO..
but Japan has there own muscle cars out now and they might be here sooner than you think..WHY...american car companies left a BIG void in the market with no muscle cars of there own so Japan has them ready ans waiting..you think the WRX is kinda fast wait till the WRX STi comes here..or the Skyline or any of those cars..they are in LS-1 Vette teritory..FAST Jpanese muscle cars.RWD..AWD..stuff like that..
thats comparing there muscle to our muscle....
but I am not comparing MUSCLE CARS TO IMPORT cars or saying they are! okay..
muscle cars and hot rodding a car are two diffrent things..
------------------
thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.
http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com
Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags
Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu
Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!
Hot rodding: to boost a cars performan by adding high performance parts to a car.
Every guy that wants a fast car does it..since cars were invented till now..american or import..its hot rodded..hot rods were done before muscle cars..dropping big 350's into 32 fords for example..power adders and such..to any car..a car with mods that make it faster than stock is a hot rod, per say..
and if the moniker belongs to just american cars what about Shelby AC Cobras or Sunbeam tigers? Brit cars HOT RODDED with 289 Ford V8's..thats hot rodding, and they are imports.....are they not hot rods??
so IZ28..if a car from any country that has say 190HP from the factory and you give it say another 200HP so its doing 390HP..is that not hot rodded???
Can we hot rod the new GTO?? its an Import after all...from australia
RigdonHome...thanks for the response. good repy.. well in your description about a $3000 civic with $40K in mods..well right there its under what a new Z06 vette cost..they cost 50K around here..
there are some mid 90's Eclipses running 12's for not too much cash involved..and they are on this board...alot of DMS guys are on here. they have 12 second cars for cheep.modded and they are running 12's.just like GN
. Supra 30K..put another 10K in and your doing 12's...WRX I saw one 25K to buy and 12K worth of mods..hes running 12.7 at the track...you also say home built engines and such ..well dont we do that too? Sure it cost them more but we are not paying for the parts they are and thats what they want..If its like that why dont we all stop modding our F-Body's and buy Z06 vettes..over time I might sink $20K into my Z but I could go put a down payment on a new Z06 or Lightning for that fact..Hot Rod a Lightning and your running faster than a Z06 and its a TRUCK..
and if you read again I NEVER said that imports are muscle cars.they are not....they are the hot rods of today. that is what I said..HOT RODS..performance parts added to make them faster!.not muscle cars...
and to point out the average teenager, do they own a Z06 or a new SS or could afford one..no..so they buy an old car..weather it be a Camaro vette or in the case of the kid yo uknow a GN..and gets the results..12 seconds..same kid working at McD's can do the same to say an old Supra..mod it out and make it in the 12's...
and yes I agree the rich kids drive the insane imports..sure..always happens..even back in the day..you save up the $$$ to buy a nice car say a used 68 Camaro..nothing special but its fast and nice..and the rich kid across the street buys a brand new Baldwin Motion Camaro..or a yenko..the rich always have the bucks to make the big image..thats what they can do..and we have to sit and wait for the price to come down to what they can buy new..
Yes I know they are in totally diffrent worlds..I agree and thats why the Camaro and Firebird dont compare and are getting discontinued..kids dont buy Fodys anymore..they go for the cheep "looks fast" imports..mod them out to run with us older guys that have the Z or SS or WS6..and they try and try and try till they get enough parts to put on there car..or should I say hot rod there car to make it just as fast as a FBody..
ANd this is a very big FAD..and has lasted more than 10 years now...its not going away any time soon..you can disagree but unless Imports are outlawed then they will be here.
and just a side note..over in Japan they have some cars that will smoke our revered Z06 vette...just a word of caution..they might be here soon..the "muscle cars" of Japan..look over to England and see the Focus they got there that SVT dosnt want yo uto know about...up there with the 2000 Cobra..a FOCUS...and a Ford..
[lease, please let's try to keep the two concepts as different as MuscleCars and Snowmobiles when it comes to racing.]
again I never said Muscle cars..I said hot rods..
[I would rather see us keep MuscleCars alive as we all know and love them, although I'm not saying we need to keep drum brakes and solid rear axles. Let them evolve in their own direction. And let Imports evolve in theirs as well. When the day comes that the Import FAD has evolved to the point that I can buy a used Civic and put $2,000 worth of simple bolt-ons into it, drive it to the track and run 12's, then drive it to work the next morning without spending the night in it with a laptop recalibrating it, I'll have some respect for Imports. ]
I have almost put $2000 grand into my car and still havnt reached 12's reliably..yea I could buy a 200HP nitrous kit and frag my engine after 10 runs..but I hanvt cracked 12's yet..
you talk about the typhoon and 93 Cobra and such...the typhoon is fast as an LT1 STOCK! I know I raced a few..and they are fast trucks..
just to point out you payed 9K for your car and are going to mod it..I payed 15K for mine 6 years ago and modded it..why thats our choice of cars..and you know what you will get smoked by the new Nissan 350Z..its as fast as a LS-1 Camaro..
the old addage..there is always someone out there faster than you..
and if they have the $$$ they will be faster..and there are alot of WANNA BE'S too..thinking there fast..as with alot of car owners..
[
Imports are here to stay like any FAD, but let's not get all blasphemous and compare them to MuscleCars or Baseball or Apple Pie]
and again you mention I am comparing them to muscle cars..NEVER SAID THAT..they are hot rodded...thats what I said...
sorry to say but the LAST muscle car now is the MUSTANG...the one survivor of the 60's..muscle cars are all but extinct now from the factory..untill new ones come out..GTO??
ohh wait is the GTO a hot rod..its an Import.. get my point...just cus its not american dosnt mean its not hot rod material..
and YES MUSCLE CAR is an AMERICAN car..Chevelle, Camaro, Nova, Cuda, Mustang, GTO..
but Japan has there own muscle cars out now and they might be here sooner than you think..WHY...american car companies left a BIG void in the market with no muscle cars of there own so Japan has them ready ans waiting..you think the WRX is kinda fast wait till the WRX STi comes here..or the Skyline or any of those cars..they are in LS-1 Vette teritory..FAST Jpanese muscle cars.RWD..AWD..stuff like that..
thats comparing there muscle to our muscle....
but I am not comparing MUSCLE CARS TO IMPORT cars or saying they are! okay..
muscle cars and hot rodding a car are two diffrent things..
------------------
thanks
David Morgan
the "Over Drive Gang"
94 Z28 A4, K/N FIPK!,AIT Relocator,TB bypass,99 SS MAF Airfoil,HPP+, Shiftkit,Cutout, Flowmaster 80 series American Thunder Exhaust with 3" Chrome tips GMS Strut Tower Brace, GMS Sub Frame Connectors AND 93-96 GM Export Tail Lights! GTS Headlight Covers and Tail covers.
http://overdrive-gang.tripod.com
Check it out !! you might know some of the cars, or my friends.and a few of their rides frequent the pages of muscle car mags
Congrats Tony L. of the "ODG" Owner of The BBC 6SP 81 Malibu
Making Hot Rod Mags top 10 cars of 2001!!
07-27-2002, 01:30 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 13
I guess this is mostly directed to Caps94ZODG, but I may wander off the subject so everybody please try to follow my ranting !!!
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO I won't accept it!!! Even if I have to live the rest of my life in denial, I won't accept it!!!
I think we're arguing over terminology here. If you use the sterile and technical definitions, I would have to assign them like this below, but basically I'm trying to agree that you are (Caps94ZODG) correct in your definitions if you use strict terminology only, leaving out the evolution of the slang of the terms:
Muscle Car: I think of a Muscle Car as being a big, dumb, powerful car of any kind. Mostly '60's cars come to mind, but show me a 1978 Monte Carlo with a Cadillac 500 in it, and I'll agree that it's a 'Muscle Car', because it fits the definition of using huge, stupid, readily available monster engines (monster being either big c.i.d or ultra-high and inefficient compression and huge valves and carb... no 'smart technology" making the power) So in my own opinion I view a Muscle Car as a larger car, I suppose no smaller than a '78 Monte Carlo, and as large as a '73 Cadillac Fleetwood if you want, as long as it runs respectable 1/4's (these days it has to run 13's of some kind to even stay ahead of the SUV's!) Going fast is its only requirement, HOW doesn't matter in the least, mpg doesn't matter, and stopping doesn't matter. For the most part, I think we agree here except maybe a couple of details.
Hot Rodding!!! Now here is where we disagree for sure!!! Let me start with your own definition, which I will agree is probably a very accurate technical definition:
"Hot rodding: to boost a cars performan by adding high performance parts to a car."
However, I feel that the American Hot Rod has earned the term 'Hot Rod' as its own label, one that can only be restricted to American Cars by Slang, but is deserved nonetheless. This is where we disagree. The term 'Hot Rod' was born and raised in America, and it should not be dishonored by being stolen and stuck to an import with a neon pink sticker. This is even more unjust and ridiculous than what GM has done with the names of the Monte Carlo and Malibu. An absolute disgrace.
So in my last post, I used the two terms, Muscle car and Hot Rod, almost interchangeably. By MY definitions, they are almost interchangeable. By your definition, a Hot Rod could be ANYTHING, including a Lawn Mower or a Belt Sander. While I wholeheartedly agree with 'Hot Rodding' a Lawn Mower or a Belt Sander, I would never dare to steal the term 'Hot Rod' for use on Belt Sanders while the term properly belongs to CARS that have earned it over many, many decades, not to imports who have come into the limelight through neon lights, giant wings, and the stupidest, most inaccurate car movie of all times, 'The Fast and the Furious" !!! If you believe that The Fast and the Furious actually in any accurately portrays real world Hot Rodding or Street Racing, or even modifying or driving any car at all, it will be obvious that you know absolutely nothing about any of the topics. Didn't someone even research CARS before they wrote the script???
Anyway, I feel that the term 'Hot Rod' does indeed belong to American Cars only. Imports need their own term to set them apart, and I would think they would WANT their own term, guessing from the way they dislike American V8 cars. So maybe we can put our heads together and come up with a good term for them that accurately descrubes what they do with their cars (like 'self-expression', or maybe 'vehicle-art') so that real Hot Rodders won't get pissed off that some idiot in a Supra won't call his car a Hot Rod and start a war at the local GearHead hangout.
Another thing... Yes, there are cars out there that will stomp my LT1 Camaro. No matter how fast it is, even a 12-second Eclipse, it will NEVER be cool, nor will it be able to earn the label 'Hot Rod'... I would call a 12-second Eclipse a 'Screaming Sewing Machine' or 'Cat on Ecstacy', but never would I dare call it a 'Hot Rod'.
So that's where I have to stop for now, since I have to put my Son to bed. But he's my next topic!!! I am deathly afraid that he'll get in with the wrong crowd and want to hop up a Civic, and being a Loving and Incredibly Involved Father, I have Sworn and Vowed to support him in his likes and dislikes, no matter what they may be, knowing full-well that some day he may come home and break the news to me that, in spite of all of my Love and Support and Understanding, he's become a, well, a... Ricer!!!
And please tell me the difference you see between a 'Ricer' and an 'Import' or an 'Import Tuner'... Honestly, I saw that you used the two terms differently, but I honestly don't know the Ricer terminology well enough to know what you mean by using the two terms separately and distinctly differently.
By using the term 'FAD', I am being a smart-***, since I know that Ricers are here to stay... However, some things keep the stigma of a FAD no matter how long they live. Like Skateboarding or the Macarana, no matter how long it sticks around it still seems like a FAD. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part?
Another thing on your '94 LT1... and I am NOT throwing stones here or being an ***... I honestly think that if you've spent more than $2000 on mods and you aren't in the high 12's yet, you either didn't buy the right mods or something is wrong with the car... no jabbing here, seriously, maybe you made some mods and need to reprogram to get the full potential out of them. Maybe other LT1 guys out there can chime in here and let me know if I'm dreaming or if you really should be able to get an LT1 in the 12's for under $2000???
OK, the Boy is melting down, and I have to get him down for his nap (he's almost 2) so that he and I can fix the Fog Lights on my Camaro this afternoon...
One more thing for thought for you all to think about and respond to... There is, in reality, absolutely NO such thing as an Import or an American Car anymore!!! I have worked in the Automotive Industry for almost 10 years, and I've helped redesign the Ford Ranger to accept a Mazda Engine, helped redesign the Cavalier chassis to accept a Vauxhall engine, etc., etc. I see die-hard Ford guys bash imports, and they don't know that the motor in their Ranger was designed by a whole bunch of little tiny Japanese Engineers in Hiroshima... You talked about Australian 'Imports' from GM... In actuality, Holden (the Australian GM) has been a part of GM for years, and GM actually exports most of the Holden parts TO Australia... Soon the GTO will show up with the LS1 and basically the F-Body powertrain in it, only you will see a much more sophisticated suspension under it... If I remember right, it's 4-wheel-independent, and is an excellent design of the German Calibre. Just going from memory on this one, I never actually worked on that program. So 10 years from now, there will be no such thing as 'Imports' and 'American Cars'... Engines, Chassis, bodies, etc., will be shared around the Globe wherever the market demands them, regardless of where they were designed. This is already true to some extent. Hasn't anybody noticed that an Isuzu pickup is just an S10 with a different front clip, you die-hard Chevy guys??? The only difference will be changes made to fit each country or region's laws such as crash-testing and the like. Gnaw on that one and let me hear some responses!!!
So I stick to my guns on keeping Ricers and Hot Rods as separate as they can possibly be... And honestly I think that Ricers are just as eager to stay out of our cars as we are to stay out of theirs!!! We can surely all live peacefully, although it's difficult to go to the Dragstrip and see prescious time being wasted by Ricers which could be used to run my Malibu down the strip... We may have to go to the extent of segregation and have separate tracks and such. That would also help keep the disease from spreading, so it could be an all-around good thing!
I know I didn't even touch on half of your post, but as you can see I'm very long-winded and I can type really, really fast so it may look like I spent hours on this response while in reality it was about a half-hour. And the Boy is REALLY melting down now so I HAVE to go!!!
I look forward to hearing some replies on this one, on all parts of it! If there are Ricers on this BBS, let me hear from you!!! Do you really want the term 'Hot Rod' stuck to your Import or would you rather have your own, high-tech, brand-new term that identifies more with your generation than us Old Fogies???
Cheers,
Scott
------------------
www.RigdonHome.com
1995 LT1 Z28
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO I won't accept it!!! Even if I have to live the rest of my life in denial, I won't accept it!!!
I think we're arguing over terminology here. If you use the sterile and technical definitions, I would have to assign them like this below, but basically I'm trying to agree that you are (Caps94ZODG) correct in your definitions if you use strict terminology only, leaving out the evolution of the slang of the terms:
Muscle Car: I think of a Muscle Car as being a big, dumb, powerful car of any kind. Mostly '60's cars come to mind, but show me a 1978 Monte Carlo with a Cadillac 500 in it, and I'll agree that it's a 'Muscle Car', because it fits the definition of using huge, stupid, readily available monster engines (monster being either big c.i.d or ultra-high and inefficient compression and huge valves and carb... no 'smart technology" making the power) So in my own opinion I view a Muscle Car as a larger car, I suppose no smaller than a '78 Monte Carlo, and as large as a '73 Cadillac Fleetwood if you want, as long as it runs respectable 1/4's (these days it has to run 13's of some kind to even stay ahead of the SUV's!) Going fast is its only requirement, HOW doesn't matter in the least, mpg doesn't matter, and stopping doesn't matter. For the most part, I think we agree here except maybe a couple of details.
Hot Rodding!!! Now here is where we disagree for sure!!! Let me start with your own definition, which I will agree is probably a very accurate technical definition:
"Hot rodding: to boost a cars performan by adding high performance parts to a car."
However, I feel that the American Hot Rod has earned the term 'Hot Rod' as its own label, one that can only be restricted to American Cars by Slang, but is deserved nonetheless. This is where we disagree. The term 'Hot Rod' was born and raised in America, and it should not be dishonored by being stolen and stuck to an import with a neon pink sticker. This is even more unjust and ridiculous than what GM has done with the names of the Monte Carlo and Malibu. An absolute disgrace.
So in my last post, I used the two terms, Muscle car and Hot Rod, almost interchangeably. By MY definitions, they are almost interchangeable. By your definition, a Hot Rod could be ANYTHING, including a Lawn Mower or a Belt Sander. While I wholeheartedly agree with 'Hot Rodding' a Lawn Mower or a Belt Sander, I would never dare to steal the term 'Hot Rod' for use on Belt Sanders while the term properly belongs to CARS that have earned it over many, many decades, not to imports who have come into the limelight through neon lights, giant wings, and the stupidest, most inaccurate car movie of all times, 'The Fast and the Furious" !!! If you believe that The Fast and the Furious actually in any accurately portrays real world Hot Rodding or Street Racing, or even modifying or driving any car at all, it will be obvious that you know absolutely nothing about any of the topics. Didn't someone even research CARS before they wrote the script???
Anyway, I feel that the term 'Hot Rod' does indeed belong to American Cars only. Imports need their own term to set them apart, and I would think they would WANT their own term, guessing from the way they dislike American V8 cars. So maybe we can put our heads together and come up with a good term for them that accurately descrubes what they do with their cars (like 'self-expression', or maybe 'vehicle-art') so that real Hot Rodders won't get pissed off that some idiot in a Supra won't call his car a Hot Rod and start a war at the local GearHead hangout.
Another thing... Yes, there are cars out there that will stomp my LT1 Camaro. No matter how fast it is, even a 12-second Eclipse, it will NEVER be cool, nor will it be able to earn the label 'Hot Rod'... I would call a 12-second Eclipse a 'Screaming Sewing Machine' or 'Cat on Ecstacy', but never would I dare call it a 'Hot Rod'.
So that's where I have to stop for now, since I have to put my Son to bed. But he's my next topic!!! I am deathly afraid that he'll get in with the wrong crowd and want to hop up a Civic, and being a Loving and Incredibly Involved Father, I have Sworn and Vowed to support him in his likes and dislikes, no matter what they may be, knowing full-well that some day he may come home and break the news to me that, in spite of all of my Love and Support and Understanding, he's become a, well, a... Ricer!!!
And please tell me the difference you see between a 'Ricer' and an 'Import' or an 'Import Tuner'... Honestly, I saw that you used the two terms differently, but I honestly don't know the Ricer terminology well enough to know what you mean by using the two terms separately and distinctly differently.
By using the term 'FAD', I am being a smart-***, since I know that Ricers are here to stay... However, some things keep the stigma of a FAD no matter how long they live. Like Skateboarding or the Macarana, no matter how long it sticks around it still seems like a FAD. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part?
Another thing on your '94 LT1... and I am NOT throwing stones here or being an ***... I honestly think that if you've spent more than $2000 on mods and you aren't in the high 12's yet, you either didn't buy the right mods or something is wrong with the car... no jabbing here, seriously, maybe you made some mods and need to reprogram to get the full potential out of them. Maybe other LT1 guys out there can chime in here and let me know if I'm dreaming or if you really should be able to get an LT1 in the 12's for under $2000???
OK, the Boy is melting down, and I have to get him down for his nap (he's almost 2) so that he and I can fix the Fog Lights on my Camaro this afternoon...
One more thing for thought for you all to think about and respond to... There is, in reality, absolutely NO such thing as an Import or an American Car anymore!!! I have worked in the Automotive Industry for almost 10 years, and I've helped redesign the Ford Ranger to accept a Mazda Engine, helped redesign the Cavalier chassis to accept a Vauxhall engine, etc., etc. I see die-hard Ford guys bash imports, and they don't know that the motor in their Ranger was designed by a whole bunch of little tiny Japanese Engineers in Hiroshima... You talked about Australian 'Imports' from GM... In actuality, Holden (the Australian GM) has been a part of GM for years, and GM actually exports most of the Holden parts TO Australia... Soon the GTO will show up with the LS1 and basically the F-Body powertrain in it, only you will see a much more sophisticated suspension under it... If I remember right, it's 4-wheel-independent, and is an excellent design of the German Calibre. Just going from memory on this one, I never actually worked on that program. So 10 years from now, there will be no such thing as 'Imports' and 'American Cars'... Engines, Chassis, bodies, etc., will be shared around the Globe wherever the market demands them, regardless of where they were designed. This is already true to some extent. Hasn't anybody noticed that an Isuzu pickup is just an S10 with a different front clip, you die-hard Chevy guys??? The only difference will be changes made to fit each country or region's laws such as crash-testing and the like. Gnaw on that one and let me hear some responses!!!
So I stick to my guns on keeping Ricers and Hot Rods as separate as they can possibly be... And honestly I think that Ricers are just as eager to stay out of our cars as we are to stay out of theirs!!! We can surely all live peacefully, although it's difficult to go to the Dragstrip and see prescious time being wasted by Ricers which could be used to run my Malibu down the strip... We may have to go to the extent of segregation and have separate tracks and such. That would also help keep the disease from spreading, so it could be an all-around good thing!
I know I didn't even touch on half of your post, but as you can see I'm very long-winded and I can type really, really fast so it may look like I spent hours on this response while in reality it was about a half-hour. And the Boy is REALLY melting down now so I HAVE to go!!!
I look forward to hearing some replies on this one, on all parts of it! If there are Ricers on this BBS, let me hear from you!!! Do you really want the term 'Hot Rod' stuck to your Import or would you rather have your own, high-tech, brand-new term that identifies more with your generation than us Old Fogies???
Cheers,
Scott
------------------
www.RigdonHome.com
1995 LT1 Z28
07-27-2002, 01:46 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 6,166
I think I've lost track of what this thread is about already.
If the Camaro needs to be a "more hot-roddable" package in the future, I'm not sure what more you can do. By your definition, "boosting performance", what easier way is there to do it than on your traditional SBC, short of just turning up the boost on turbos?
Again, the long rambling posts have confused me. Sorry.
------------------
Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.
If the Camaro needs to be a "more hot-roddable" package in the future, I'm not sure what more you can do. By your definition, "boosting performance", what easier way is there to do it than on your traditional SBC, short of just turning up the boost on turbos?
Again, the long rambling posts have confused me. Sorry.
------------------
Mark
94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.
(Hey, I'm a college boy I can't afford gobs of bolt-ons!)
Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)
The F-body will NEVER die.