The GM titanic turning around. Did someone order"all stop?".....
04-10-2007, 05:41 PM
#1
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The GM titanic turning around. Did someone order"all stop?".....
Instead of "stay on new heading"?
Well now with Lutz speaking out. And it could be just a smoke and mirrors. But GM is right now doing the turn around from what I have read on here and GMIN and such.
What happened? Did something go wrong? I thought 08 was to be very promising and glimses of stuff ahead. Now were getting the..Ohh no we hit the iceberg again..and again..and again??
What really is the deal?? I mean not even a year of praise we have had for GM so far now we got the worried bean counters again? Why? And the RWD off again on again now off again?? I know its part of the EPA and stuff but why would they not known of this and be part of the plan?? RWD is more costly?? It is??? How so??? I know it was mentioned long ago and many times the FWD cars are in fact more costly to make but provide what the consumer wants. Or is this just another delaying tactic to people that dont remember when RWD cars were the market?
Whats your take guys? Cus to me if this is the start of the sinking again. Then I really dont know what GM can do to plug this hole?? If there is one.
and ohh a side note. About the GM cars made in the asianpacific market and Australia. They wont work here? Says who? Tell that to Toyota, Honda. Kinda funny that the cars they produce mostly for the consumer in Japan are doing hell of a job over here also.
This country and its auto industry is just in a slow spiral of going down the toilet.
Just remember people. "Toyota is as American as apple Pie!"
Well now with Lutz speaking out. And it could be just a smoke and mirrors. But GM is right now doing the turn around from what I have read on here and GMIN and such.
What happened? Did something go wrong? I thought 08 was to be very promising and glimses of stuff ahead. Now were getting the..Ohh no we hit the iceberg again..and again..and again??
What really is the deal?? I mean not even a year of praise we have had for GM so far now we got the worried bean counters again? Why? And the RWD off again on again now off again?? I know its part of the EPA and stuff but why would they not known of this and be part of the plan?? RWD is more costly?? It is??? How so??? I know it was mentioned long ago and many times the FWD cars are in fact more costly to make but provide what the consumer wants. Or is this just another delaying tactic to people that dont remember when RWD cars were the market?
Whats your take guys? Cus to me if this is the start of the sinking again. Then I really dont know what GM can do to plug this hole?? If there is one.
and ohh a side note. About the GM cars made in the asianpacific market and Australia. They wont work here? Says who? Tell that to Toyota, Honda. Kinda funny that the cars they produce mostly for the consumer in Japan are doing hell of a job over here also.
This country and its auto industry is just in a slow spiral of going down the toilet.
Just remember people. "Toyota is as American as apple Pie!"
04-10-2007, 05:57 PM
#2
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Location: Oakland, California
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It's politics. Here in California, there is talk of legislation (AB 493) to place a gas guzzler tax on all new vehicles sold begining in 2011. More environmentally friendly vehicles would actually get a rebate.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_5632911
You know how it works, the rest of the country follows California when it comes to emissions, so if it passes into law here...
http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_5632911
You know how it works, the rest of the country follows California when it comes to emissions, so if it passes into law here...
04-10-2007, 05:59 PM
#3
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Whether or not GM puts out RWD vs FWD cars isn't going to make nearly as much difference as you guys are making it seem like. GM could put out the next Impala as FWD and it'd sell just as well as if it were RWD - maybe even better up north, especially if they offered an AWD option.
I know drive wheels are a big focus on a performance oriented board, but to the other 99.5% of the population, there's about 100 other things they'll look at in a GM vehicle when making their decision and drive wheels is probably not one of them.
I know drive wheels are a big focus on a performance oriented board, but to the other 99.5% of the population, there's about 100 other things they'll look at in a GM vehicle when making their decision and drive wheels is probably not one of them.
04-10-2007, 06:18 PM
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ohh yea Trexx..im just talking about the millions done to make RWD something GM could use. Now it seams like the car company that takes the wait and see approach to "if things sell for other companies". IE:300 and the RWD Impy or HHR cus the PT did well or what not for example..they want a car like that and develope it and then the market is already past that trend...
and sure the current Impy is a great seller. Just needs to be refreshed.
Just seams to me they are spending millions on stuff thats in the garbage and not making the leap to produce the cars needed to be where they have to be to compete.
and sure the current Impy is a great seller. Just needs to be refreshed.
Just seams to me they are spending millions on stuff thats in the garbage and not making the leap to produce the cars needed to be where they have to be to compete.
04-10-2007, 06:23 PM
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Location: Pewee Valley, KY
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Whether or not GM puts out RWD vs FWD cars isn't going to make nearly as much difference as you guys are making it seem like. GM could put out the next Impala as FWD and it'd sell just as well as if it were RWD - maybe even better up north, especially if they offered an AWD option.
I know drive wheels are a big focus on a performance oriented board, but to the other 99.5% of the population, there's about 100 other things they'll look at in a GM vehicle when making their decision and drive wheels is probably not one of them.
I know drive wheels are a big focus on a performance oriented board, but to the other 99.5% of the population, there's about 100 other things they'll look at in a GM vehicle when making their decision and drive wheels is probably not one of them.
04-10-2007, 06:47 PM
#7
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Location: Middle of Kansas
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It's politics. Here in California, there is talk of legislation (AB 493) to place a gas guzzler tax on all new vehicles sold begining in 2011. More environmentally friendly vehicles would actually get a rebate.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_5632911
You know how it works, the rest of the country follows California when it comes to emissions, so if it passes into law here...
http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_5632911
You know how it works, the rest of the country follows California when it comes to emissions, so if it passes into law here...
04-10-2007, 07:07 PM
#8
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Location: The Golden State
Posts: 13,711
The program is tilted towards large SUVs, and it's NOT a gas guzzler tax on all new vehicles. Believe it or not, by the way the program is planned, based on the 2002 model year, a Camaro would qualify for a $216 REBATE.... NOT a "gas guzzler tax.
Even buying a Crown Victoria under the proposal would get you a check of $213!
Large trucks would be hit hard though.
Here's the chart: http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_californ...html#CHEVROLET
You know how it works, the rest of the country follows California when it comes to emissions, so if it passes into law here...
Other states have the option of following either Federal or California emissions regulations. Alot of states in the northeast decided to follow California's emission regs because of "Acid Rain" that was plaguing the area some years ago.
This program is called a "Clean Air Discount Program", and it targets the large SUVs that people buy just for status symbols.
There's exemptions for business use, and unlike these Hybrid and Electric car rebates and incentives (that I personally loathe, and many are due to expire here soon), this program is more fair in that it includes regualr cars and actually rewards people who don't need SUVs & buys a car instead. The program also doesn't just dish money out of the state treasury to smug treehuggers driving a Prius. It's self financing.
We're at a point where we need to do something. Not necessarily about "Global Warming" (which I believe is more a regular plantary cycle than anything else), but we have to do something about our oil dependence.
Gonna need either higher fuel taxes, more draconian CAFE standards, or a revenue-neutral incentive program.
This California program is the best of the three.
More info and FAQ: http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_californ...s_and_surcharg
Last edited by guionM; 04-10-2007 at 07:20 PM.
04-10-2007, 07:47 PM
#9
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Instead of "stay on new heading"?
Well now with Lutz speaking out. And it could be just a smoke and mirrors. But GM is right now doing the turn around from what I have read on here and GMIN and such.
What happened? Did something go wrong? I thought 08 was to be very promising and glimses of stuff ahead. Now were getting the..Ohh no we hit the iceberg again..and again..and again??
What really is the deal?? I mean not even a year of praise we have had for GM so far now we got the worried bean counters again? Why? And the RWD off again on again now off again?? I know its part of the EPA and stuff but why would they not known of this and be part of the plan?? RWD is more costly?? It is??? How so??? I know it was mentioned long ago and many times the FWD cars are in fact more costly to make but provide what the consumer wants. Or is this just another delaying tactic to people that dont remember when RWD cars were the market?
Whats your take guys? Cus to me if this is the start of the sinking again. Then I really dont know what GM can do to plug this hole?? If there is one.
and ohh a side note. About the GM cars made in the asianpacific market and Australia. They wont work here? Says who? Tell that to Toyota, Honda. Kinda funny that the cars they produce mostly for the consumer in Japan are doing hell of a job over here also.
This country and its auto industry is just in a slow spiral of going down the toilet.
Just remember people. "Toyota is as American as apple Pie!"
Well now with Lutz speaking out. And it could be just a smoke and mirrors. But GM is right now doing the turn around from what I have read on here and GMIN and such.
What happened? Did something go wrong? I thought 08 was to be very promising and glimses of stuff ahead. Now were getting the..Ohh no we hit the iceberg again..and again..and again??
What really is the deal?? I mean not even a year of praise we have had for GM so far now we got the worried bean counters again? Why? And the RWD off again on again now off again?? I know its part of the EPA and stuff but why would they not known of this and be part of the plan?? RWD is more costly?? It is??? How so??? I know it was mentioned long ago and many times the FWD cars are in fact more costly to make but provide what the consumer wants. Or is this just another delaying tactic to people that dont remember when RWD cars were the market?
Whats your take guys? Cus to me if this is the start of the sinking again. Then I really dont know what GM can do to plug this hole?? If there is one.
and ohh a side note. About the GM cars made in the asianpacific market and Australia. They wont work here? Says who? Tell that to Toyota, Honda. Kinda funny that the cars they produce mostly for the consumer in Japan are doing hell of a job over here also.
This country and its auto industry is just in a slow spiral of going down the toilet.
Just remember people. "Toyota is as American as apple Pie!"
GM is on track. All models approved are comitted to seeing daylight.
GM IS NOT backtracking, scrambling, or is in anyway confused or as the topic heading so artfully says..... "Ordering an 'All Stop'!"
General Motors like any automotive business or any company that any idea today doesn't get to the consumer for another 3 years or more, needs to have a plan of what they will do for all possibilities. In short, planning for anything bad that happens between now and 10 years into the future (3-4 years development plus 6 years of a models lifespan).
We will DEFINATELY get the G8, the Camaro, and a RWD Chevrolet. That's in stone. Camaro is dependent on the Chevy RWD sedan. GM has comitted the money and the resources and manpower to gut Oshawa. That ball is rolling & isn't going to stop short of an economic collaspse.
It's a virtural certainty that Cadillac and Buick will have a RWD car based on Zeta at the same time of, or immediately following the Chevrolet RWD. There is already comittment behind these cars as well, and these are big luxury cars that won't be affected by changes in the market place that would affect more medium or volume oriented cars. For instance, if it was the DTS replacement getting Zeta first and Chevrolet getting one afterwards, we'd have reason to be concerned. That's not the case. Cadillac and Buick are safe.
HOWEVER..... there's a host of other cars that GM planned based off of the Camaro and the Chevy sedan.
The big coupe I've been nearly the lone voice saying will happen is on a bubble. As is the US Pontiac version of the RWD Chevy sedan. Pontiac might be limited to the G8 and any large coupe might have to be made in Australia.
On the flip side, Impala is selling extremely well. There's always a backup plan at GM, so there's no doubt that a package is on file in which a new FWD Impala would be ready for development if GM had decided against going with RWD. I can easily see GM doing a new FWD Espilon Impala and naming the RWD sedan something else (there's plenty of great names: Belair, Caprice, Monte Carlo,......Chevelle...).
Bob Lutz is basically musing about some of the issues people at product are mulling over and how best to protect GM.
So don't hit the panic button. It's way too early for that.
04-10-2007, 08:01 PM
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okay thanks man. So its as you put it "overreacting"
Just hearing this news and nothing really else in this lul in time kinda made me go.."Is this a bad thing or nothing."
Guess it is nothing. They are still on track for the future. I just wanted to know if it was a change of course. IF it is not then I retract my question.
Just hearing this news and nothing really else in this lul in time kinda made me go.."Is this a bad thing or nothing."
Guess it is nothing. They are still on track for the future. I just wanted to know if it was a change of course. IF it is not then I retract my question.
04-10-2007, 08:45 PM
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04-10-2007, 11:05 PM
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I think this is largely sabre rattling. He took a largley unknown political issue, and made every GM enthusiast/stakeholder know about it instantly. It really almost read like a "You pass this law, we will take our cool product and go home speech".The new RWD cars are key to GM's turn around, and he is fiercly protective of them. GM has invested too much money in the new RWD platform to do just the Camaro and leave it at that.