(1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
11-21-2004, 01:47 PM
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(1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
The show doesn't officially start for a few hours, and press-VIP was last night, but I went through the place when they were still setting things up, and got an informal tour of GM's area.
There were a few concepts I've seen for the 1st time, and a few new cars I haven't spent any time with till yesterday. It was a relatively short visit (about an hor and a half total), so after a look around GM's vehicles, I blasted through Ford & Chrysler's areas before having to go to a appointment. But here's my take on a few vehicles.
* H3: You have to remind yourself that this is the "ECONOMY" Hummer. It looks ALOT bigger than it actually is. It's hard to believe it's actually powered by a 5 cylinder & not a V8. Also, at certain angles (where you can't see the front grille), it actually looks more like a Jeep.
* SOLSTICE: The production Solstice is HOT! It actually looks better than the concept car of a few years ago. The 2 tone interior is gone (at least in the model shown), replaced by a single tone grey interior set off by the chrome around the guages and other sparce metal trim. It's so little that the dark interior sets it off. This is the 1st interior on a GM product that not only feels like quality, it actually looks fantastic as well. None of the overly industrial feel of GM's interiors of recent years. If Bob Lutz thinks he's only going to sell 20,000 of these things per year at $20,000, I think he's going to be in for a serious awakening. I'm predicting GM won't be able to keep these things in stock for at least a year.
* COBALT: I think the coupe is fantastic (they have last year's SS on display... the one w/o the blower and the pre-production dash), but I've though the sedan left alot to be desired. I still feel that way. The interiors in the Cobalt are light years away from Cavalier in fit, finish, and feel of quality materials. Combined that with a price starting at $13,600, and Cobalt is another homerun in waiting, if the public can get past the looks of the sedan and the Cavalier-clone coupe.
* VELITE: I saw it at Pebble Beach a couple of months ago, and was put off at it's illusion of size. It still looks big. Unless you stand up next to it, and see it's profile, every view at an angle makes the car look bigger than it is. The width and wheelbase of the car is simply incredible for it's length. But it seems that's the dimensions coming down the road, so it will take some getting used to.
* NOMAD: This was the 1st time I actually saw this car and actually got a good view inside (I declined to get in... don't know why). IMHO, it would be a capital crime not to put some version of this car into production. The car just comes together and just seems right from a style & proportion standpoint. The interior looks great (as far as concepts go), and it's styling is distinctive and good looking. Maybe a mini wagon isn't the best direction for the car, but replaceing the wagon-like rear with a Camaro-like fast hatchback & produced as a 2 passenger coupe would be perfect. Something like that with a Solstice-like pricetag and the factory performance parts GM is planing to make avalible would make this car the equivlent to the Mustang with the "do-it-yourself" crowd. Hell, I'd probally even buy one.
* 2005 GTO: If anyone complains about it's bland looks once this hits the street, they need to visit a shrink. Pontiac has 2 GTOs here. One with the hood, the other with GTO's new factory accessories. They include the recessed Grille inserts, ground effects, and a differnt spoiler. One thing about the new GTO that I haven't seen and hasn't been posted anywhere is that it's rear bumper has not only been redesigned for the twin tailpipes, it has been restyled with a black center section and "GTO" pressed into the plastic. When you see it from the back, you won't confuse it with anything else. I'm still not exactly a fan of the new non-functional optional hood scoops, though.
* STS: I like it's interior better than the CTS but it's rear seats are probally no bigger. The exterior can pass as a redesigned CTS as well. It's a very very nice car, but to be honest with you, I feel it's over priced, and not removed enough from the lower priced CTS. It may serve as a bridge car between the old Cadillac generation & the new, but with the next CTS getting the "new" Cadillac interior, and possibly a northstar V8 when it's redesigned next year or year after, it's going to be hard to justify a $55,000 Cadillac STS that looks alot like, is nearly the same size as, and is on the same chassis as a $32-40,000 CTS.
* C6 CORVETTE: I've seen plenty in car mags, I've seen a few pass by on the street, it's been about a year since it was introduced, and I still haven't warmed up to the car, and probally never will. I know it's quicker than any factory Corvette to date, it's as fast as stink, it's the best "supercar" performance value on the planet, but I can't say the exterior does a thing for me. The body looks chisled and unfinished, like someone started a work of art (like the C3) but never came back from their lunch break. The tail gives you a feeling that the whole rear end is missing. The greenhouse is too much like the NSX, meaning too low a beltline and too high a roof line. The exposed headlights look like an afterthough. It's headlights seem arranged in no particular order under plastic covers, & it's surround is body colored. Chrysler & Ford did a better job with the Viper & GT. If Corvette is going to have exposed headlights, it should at least look like a finished product.
* LeCrosse: The LeCrosse looks like what the next Ford Taurus would be if Ford was making a next generation instead of replacing it. It looks very good, but from the headlights, the grille, the profile, the roofline, to the rear end, the LeCrosse is a dead ringer for a rolling blue oval design infringement lawsuit. Inside, this is the interior Buick should have been making all along. It's actually tasteful and elegant... and very Ford-like.
* G6: In person, it's a mixed bag. It's overall design is good, but it looks a little dull. It has great proportions, but the rear wheels are so far astern that it's placement looks almost like an afterthought. It's interior is solid and well made, but it seems to have been designed before the guys that created the attractive interiors of the Solstice & LeCrosse came to town. The Grand Am was in GM's top 3 selling cars list for years because it was cheap and looked fast (though outraegous). The G6 has far better fit & finish, but it lacks the personality the Grand Ams had. It's going to be a nice applience, but I don't think it will do anywhere as well in the marketplace as the old Grand Am did.
* CHEVY UPLANDER: I don't do minivans, but I'll be objective here. It's not bad. The one at the auto show was a base model with entertainment system, and I have to say it was an impressive piece. It had the new standard dash that you'll see on all the other division's minivans (with trim variations) and like what seems to be the new craze, it has chrome trim around it's guages. The seats look nice, and there is a rack on the ceiling where you can add accesories and slide them into place. GM chose to put a new nose and interior on their Venture (and related) minivans instead of an entirely new design so that money can go into areas where it's needed (ie: Cars). Still think the Venture looks better
*TRIVIA TIDBIT*
When you look at the new Chevrolet Uplander, you'll notice that it's devoid of the chrome Chevrolet bar. This hallmark of the Zarella era is being phased out as new Chevy cars are being introduced (I'm sure there can be a price saving argument made against the chrome bars). The bars will continue in the future on most Chevrolet cars, but they won't be chrome.
* CHRYSLER: There is a series of vehicles at Chrysler's area called "DUB'S". It includes lowered 300C, Magnum, and a Ram truck with oversized wheels, but not quite at "rim protector" tire size. No doubt, Chrysler is going to have the most "hip" section of San Francisco's auto show. Add in the SRT-4, the Rumble Bee, the Kahuna concept, a PT Coupe (yes, I said PT coupe!), and a few other vehicles, and it's a given which company will attract the most car nuts and teenagers to their display. Only the 300 "DUB" is on a platform, so everything else is on the floor with you. Nice.
* FORD: Ford doesn't seem to have put much effort in this show. I'm not sure if it's a lack of intresting products or just simply saving up for Detroit & Los Angeles. There were just 2 Mustangs (a maroon V6 and a pale green GT I almost missed), and one each of their other all new vehicles. The obligatory Ford GT was on a turntable. The Lincoln-Mercury area seemed to be a bit more exciting. It seemed to have as many cars but since it was in a smaller area, it seemed more "busy". The sinister jet black Lincoln LSE there is a show stealer.
If you are debating if you should go to the San Francisco show, there is one additional thing that might make it worthwhile. In the GM part of the hall, there is lined up against the wall something like 60-70 Corvettes of various years most all from private owners and I believe a few from GM that is a must see! You name a Corvette, and it's most likely there, from the 1st one, to rare ones, to pace cars, to ZR1s.
BTW: If you are waiting for the Z06 intro, LA will be unveiling it January 11 at the Los Angeles International Auto Show. Detroit wil have an unveiling as well, but like the C6 intro, one show will be the 1st press unveiling while the other show will be the 1st time the public sees the car.
There were a few concepts I've seen for the 1st time, and a few new cars I haven't spent any time with till yesterday. It was a relatively short visit (about an hor and a half total), so after a look around GM's vehicles, I blasted through Ford & Chrysler's areas before having to go to a appointment. But here's my take on a few vehicles.
* H3: You have to remind yourself that this is the "ECONOMY" Hummer. It looks ALOT bigger than it actually is. It's hard to believe it's actually powered by a 5 cylinder & not a V8. Also, at certain angles (where you can't see the front grille), it actually looks more like a Jeep.
* SOLSTICE: The production Solstice is HOT! It actually looks better than the concept car of a few years ago. The 2 tone interior is gone (at least in the model shown), replaced by a single tone grey interior set off by the chrome around the guages and other sparce metal trim. It's so little that the dark interior sets it off. This is the 1st interior on a GM product that not only feels like quality, it actually looks fantastic as well. None of the overly industrial feel of GM's interiors of recent years. If Bob Lutz thinks he's only going to sell 20,000 of these things per year at $20,000, I think he's going to be in for a serious awakening. I'm predicting GM won't be able to keep these things in stock for at least a year.
* COBALT: I think the coupe is fantastic (they have last year's SS on display... the one w/o the blower and the pre-production dash), but I've though the sedan left alot to be desired. I still feel that way. The interiors in the Cobalt are light years away from Cavalier in fit, finish, and feel of quality materials. Combined that with a price starting at $13,600, and Cobalt is another homerun in waiting, if the public can get past the looks of the sedan and the Cavalier-clone coupe.
* VELITE: I saw it at Pebble Beach a couple of months ago, and was put off at it's illusion of size. It still looks big. Unless you stand up next to it, and see it's profile, every view at an angle makes the car look bigger than it is. The width and wheelbase of the car is simply incredible for it's length. But it seems that's the dimensions coming down the road, so it will take some getting used to.
* NOMAD: This was the 1st time I actually saw this car and actually got a good view inside (I declined to get in... don't know why). IMHO, it would be a capital crime not to put some version of this car into production. The car just comes together and just seems right from a style & proportion standpoint. The interior looks great (as far as concepts go), and it's styling is distinctive and good looking. Maybe a mini wagon isn't the best direction for the car, but replaceing the wagon-like rear with a Camaro-like fast hatchback & produced as a 2 passenger coupe would be perfect. Something like that with a Solstice-like pricetag and the factory performance parts GM is planing to make avalible would make this car the equivlent to the Mustang with the "do-it-yourself" crowd. Hell, I'd probally even buy one.
* 2005 GTO: If anyone complains about it's bland looks once this hits the street, they need to visit a shrink. Pontiac has 2 GTOs here. One with the hood, the other with GTO's new factory accessories. They include the recessed Grille inserts, ground effects, and a differnt spoiler. One thing about the new GTO that I haven't seen and hasn't been posted anywhere is that it's rear bumper has not only been redesigned for the twin tailpipes, it has been restyled with a black center section and "GTO" pressed into the plastic. When you see it from the back, you won't confuse it with anything else. I'm still not exactly a fan of the new non-functional optional hood scoops, though.
* STS: I like it's interior better than the CTS but it's rear seats are probally no bigger. The exterior can pass as a redesigned CTS as well. It's a very very nice car, but to be honest with you, I feel it's over priced, and not removed enough from the lower priced CTS. It may serve as a bridge car between the old Cadillac generation & the new, but with the next CTS getting the "new" Cadillac interior, and possibly a northstar V8 when it's redesigned next year or year after, it's going to be hard to justify a $55,000 Cadillac STS that looks alot like, is nearly the same size as, and is on the same chassis as a $32-40,000 CTS.
* C6 CORVETTE: I've seen plenty in car mags, I've seen a few pass by on the street, it's been about a year since it was introduced, and I still haven't warmed up to the car, and probally never will. I know it's quicker than any factory Corvette to date, it's as fast as stink, it's the best "supercar" performance value on the planet, but I can't say the exterior does a thing for me. The body looks chisled and unfinished, like someone started a work of art (like the C3) but never came back from their lunch break. The tail gives you a feeling that the whole rear end is missing. The greenhouse is too much like the NSX, meaning too low a beltline and too high a roof line. The exposed headlights look like an afterthough. It's headlights seem arranged in no particular order under plastic covers, & it's surround is body colored. Chrysler & Ford did a better job with the Viper & GT. If Corvette is going to have exposed headlights, it should at least look like a finished product.
* LeCrosse: The LeCrosse looks like what the next Ford Taurus would be if Ford was making a next generation instead of replacing it. It looks very good, but from the headlights, the grille, the profile, the roofline, to the rear end, the LeCrosse is a dead ringer for a rolling blue oval design infringement lawsuit. Inside, this is the interior Buick should have been making all along. It's actually tasteful and elegant... and very Ford-like.
* G6: In person, it's a mixed bag. It's overall design is good, but it looks a little dull. It has great proportions, but the rear wheels are so far astern that it's placement looks almost like an afterthought. It's interior is solid and well made, but it seems to have been designed before the guys that created the attractive interiors of the Solstice & LeCrosse came to town. The Grand Am was in GM's top 3 selling cars list for years because it was cheap and looked fast (though outraegous). The G6 has far better fit & finish, but it lacks the personality the Grand Ams had. It's going to be a nice applience, but I don't think it will do anywhere as well in the marketplace as the old Grand Am did.
* CHEVY UPLANDER: I don't do minivans, but I'll be objective here. It's not bad. The one at the auto show was a base model with entertainment system, and I have to say it was an impressive piece. It had the new standard dash that you'll see on all the other division's minivans (with trim variations) and like what seems to be the new craze, it has chrome trim around it's guages. The seats look nice, and there is a rack on the ceiling where you can add accesories and slide them into place. GM chose to put a new nose and interior on their Venture (and related) minivans instead of an entirely new design so that money can go into areas where it's needed (ie: Cars). Still think the Venture looks better
*TRIVIA TIDBIT*
When you look at the new Chevrolet Uplander, you'll notice that it's devoid of the chrome Chevrolet bar. This hallmark of the Zarella era is being phased out as new Chevy cars are being introduced (I'm sure there can be a price saving argument made against the chrome bars). The bars will continue in the future on most Chevrolet cars, but they won't be chrome.
* CHRYSLER: There is a series of vehicles at Chrysler's area called "DUB'S". It includes lowered 300C, Magnum, and a Ram truck with oversized wheels, but not quite at "rim protector" tire size. No doubt, Chrysler is going to have the most "hip" section of San Francisco's auto show. Add in the SRT-4, the Rumble Bee, the Kahuna concept, a PT Coupe (yes, I said PT coupe!), and a few other vehicles, and it's a given which company will attract the most car nuts and teenagers to their display. Only the 300 "DUB" is on a platform, so everything else is on the floor with you. Nice.
* FORD: Ford doesn't seem to have put much effort in this show. I'm not sure if it's a lack of intresting products or just simply saving up for Detroit & Los Angeles. There were just 2 Mustangs (a maroon V6 and a pale green GT I almost missed), and one each of their other all new vehicles. The obligatory Ford GT was on a turntable. The Lincoln-Mercury area seemed to be a bit more exciting. It seemed to have as many cars but since it was in a smaller area, it seemed more "busy". The sinister jet black Lincoln LSE there is a show stealer.
If you are debating if you should go to the San Francisco show, there is one additional thing that might make it worthwhile. In the GM part of the hall, there is lined up against the wall something like 60-70 Corvettes of various years most all from private owners and I believe a few from GM that is a must see! You name a Corvette, and it's most likely there, from the 1st one, to rare ones, to pace cars, to ZR1s.
BTW: If you are waiting for the Z06 intro, LA will be unveiling it January 11 at the Los Angeles International Auto Show. Detroit wil have an unveiling as well, but like the C6 intro, one show will be the 1st press unveiling while the other show will be the 1st time the public sees the car.
11-21-2004, 05:36 PM
#2
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
I would love to be able to go! 
I have to say, I think my favorite current production car that is readily available is the STS. I agree that it looks too much like the CTS, but to me it just looks like a bigger, better version. There is one at the local dealer with just about every option imagineable and the sticker shows $60,000! 
It has the wood trim interior with dark gray leather. 
I have to say, I think my favorite current production car that is readily available is the STS. I agree that it looks too much like the CTS, but to me it just looks like a bigger, better version. There is one at the local dealer with just about every option imagineable and the sticker shows $60,000! It has the wood trim interior with dark gray leather.
11-21-2004, 06:48 PM
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
There was a new Corvette and Cobalt at the mall near where I live. I've seen many pictures of both, but I would say...and I was trying to be as objective as possible...They both look so much better in person, expecially the 'vette. That car has got to be a future classic.
My wife drives a Camry most of the time. I asked her to compare the interior of the Cobalt to the Camry. She's a big Toyota fan, but was definitely surprised by the Cobalt. She said it was on par with the Camry. That surprised me to say the least, but I was equally impressed. To be sure, if you look close enough, it's evident that it's a less expensive car, but it is still impressive to say the least. Light years beyond my Camaro!!
My wife drives a Camry most of the time. I asked her to compare the interior of the Cobalt to the Camry. She's a big Toyota fan, but was definitely surprised by the Cobalt. She said it was on par with the Camry. That surprised me to say the least, but I was equally impressed. To be sure, if you look close enough, it's evident that it's a less expensive car, but it is still impressive to say the least. Light years beyond my Camaro!!
11-21-2004, 10:13 PM
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
Originally Posted by IZ28
Did I hear that right? The Chevy bar is going to be getting less use?
11-21-2004, 10:56 PM
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
Originally Posted by guionM
* SOLSTICE: This is the 1st interior on a GM product that not only feels like quality, it actually looks fantastic as well.
Originally Posted by guionM
* STS: I like it's interior better than the CTS but it's rear seats are probally no bigger. The exterior can pass as a redesigned CTS as well. It's a very very nice car, but to be honest with you, I feel it's over priced, and not removed enough from the lower priced CTS. It may serve as a bridge car between the old Cadillac generation & the new, but with the next CTS getting the "new" Cadillac interior, and possibly a northstar V8 when it's redesigned next year or year after, it's going to be hard to justify a $55,000 Cadillac STS that looks alot like, is nearly the same size as, and is on the same chassis as a $32-40,000 CTS.
Will a $32K CTS be available with a Northstar?!
If not then thats not a fair comparison.
Originally Posted by guionM
BTW: If you are waiting for the Z06 intro, LA will be unveiling it January 11 at the Los Angeles International Auto Show. Detroit wil have an unveiling as well, but like the C6 intro, one show will be the 1st press unveiling while the other show will be the 1st time the public sees the car.
What do you think of the Detroit/Indiana riot?
11-21-2004, 11:11 PM
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
Originally Posted by muckz
No. The Chevy bar will get less chrome usage.
11-21-2004, 11:58 PM
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
Originally Posted by IZ28
I was hoping not to hear that. The same thing but not chrome, whoo hooo.
Exactly...I can't think of anything else that is going to make that look less bad. Although I do like it on the Equinox.
11-22-2004, 12:08 AM
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
I can give them a hint. 
Remove....bar....completely....on....ALL....CARS.
Remove....bar....completely....on....ALL....CARS.
Last edited by IZ28; 11-22-2004 at 12:12 AM.
11-22-2004, 04:21 PM
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
Originally Posted by Pentatonic
Was the Viper Coupe there?
Originally Posted by IZ28
I was hoping not to hear that. The same thing but not chrome, whoo hooo.
Last edited by guionM; 11-22-2004 at 04:25 PM.
11-22-2004, 04:32 PM
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Re: (1st Auto show report of the season) San Francisco International Auto Show
Originally Posted by Meccadeth
What about the GTO??
[quote]The STS still has a lot of features the CTS doesn't.
Will a $32K CTS be available with a Northstar?!
If not then thats not a fair comparison.[quote]$32,000 CTS with a northstar isn't reasonable, but a $45,000 one is (being that Cadillac is charging $40,000 for a premium V6 CTS.
It's just that it's begining to seem to me that Cadillac is artificially jacking up their prices just for the Cadillac name. $55-60,000 for a STS?!!
When is LAIAS being moved to November or whatever? I thought that was this years California IAS
What do you think of the Detroit/Indiana riot?
