MustangEater82

Just curious if I have this concept down...

You come up on a corner, hit brakes hard, nose of car goes down, rear lifts, you keep on the brakes slightly as you turn, this causes the nose to stick, and for the rear to be a little loose causing the car to rotate.

Normally I come in hard on the brakes straight, then turn.

I understand their is a fine point between, turning hard/braking, causing understeer, and also the point of getting the car to rotate a little too much causing the car to lose the rear.

but that is just a matter of practice/experience.


so do I have this idea right? or what am I thinking wrong?

dream '94 Z28

I think you've got it. I think the trick is to know WHEN to trailbrake. Not all turns and car set-ups require it.

MustangEater82

Yeah I know its not as simple as looking into it, I was just experimenting with ways to get my car to rotate, since I cannot easily power oversteer. Just making sure I was had it right.

thanks

bsim

Correct.

The tires can only do 100% of duty at a time. If you're 100% braking, and you try to turn, you're asking the tires to do much, and you push. So the idea is to transition from braking to turning in a progressive manner. As in:
100% brake 0% turn
<turn in>
90% brake 10 % turn
70% brake 30 %turn
30 % brake 70 %turn
00% brake 100% turn
80% turn 20% throttle
30 % turn 70 % throttle
00% turn 100% throttle

Obviously, the timing on this depends on the turn, but you have the idea right...

mitchntx

There are very few corners I have ever experienced the REQUIRED trail braking.

If you have to use the brakes in order to get your car to rotate, then you have suspension issues that should be addressed. You are over-using teh brakes, tires and the driver ...

Add a little more spring rate or a bigger rear bar. Maybe stiffen up the rear shocks a tad ...

MustangEater82

I know I could go that route... but I am sort of on a budget. Just trying to experiment a little, getting the feel for it a little bit on the streets.

Melee Penguin

Sounds like you should be driving an old model porsche.

I've never even attempted trailbraking in my car. What kind of brake pads ya using?

bruecksteve

I use trail braking all the time. It does help to get the car to rotate, especially in tight corners.

There is a blur between trail braking and threshold braking and it's a fine line. While trail braking involves holding the brake longer after you've started your turn, threshhold braking is braking up to the last split second before beginning your turn. But like I said, it's a fine line.

Obviously braking while turning makes the back-end more lose. It may or may not be an advantage, depending on the turn and the entry speed coming in to it. Learn to use it to your advantage and consider it another tool in your driving skill set.

JimMueller

I've told ya before, Eric, I've got the stock 19mm or a 25mm solid rear bar which should help your V6 rotate. It's been sitting in my closet for about two years! I'm pretty sure I've still got the bushings also. Shoot me a PM if you want one of them to test with. Heck take both, and bring back the one you don't like!

number77

trail braking wears the crap out of the sides/sidewalls of your front tires.

bruecksteve

????? How in the world do you figure that ??????

number77

doing it in an old leased car vs. a new leased car they didn't care though
its not the side wall, just the out pattern of the tires.

O-taka

i like bsim and brueksteve's posts.

if you brake like you're riding a motorcycle (all straight line, get off before lean) you can feel the front end of a car lighten, and weight transfer back.
not good

at autox, the good guys are not only trail braking, they're left-foot braking and leaning on the throttle lol. i find it hard to do in an F-bod M6 since i got size 11s and there's not a lot of space there, but then again, i don't actively practice it.

another interesting thing i saw recently was a DVD on Senna. the 2-disk tribute DVD with Right to Win. There's some fascinating extras on that DVD, and one w/ Senna test driving a red NSX at Suzuka circuit.

Both in car and outside views set to a really cool brazilian song. but one of the things i noticed is Senna trail-braked heavily. he was going hella fast on street tires, and as it was a street car, it had functional brake lights so you could see it from the outside views. he was prob left-foot braking now that i think of it. one of my favorite parts on that DVD, musta watched it 10 times.

bruecksteve

I left foot brake in my car (it's an A4) and it REALLY helps to get the car to rotate. Most street cars have too much understeer to start with and unless you want to brake (straight), turn, and shoot, you either modify your suspension and/or do things like trail brake to make your car move like you want it to.