cndctrdj

this is going to sound a bit odd but how do our cars compare to other sports cars as far a s cornering and road holding ability?
i happen to think my car does a pretty good job of holding the road, but i was talking to my friend who has a s14 and he swears up and down that he would completly destroy me on a road coarse. i argued for a bit and then gave up because i have no solid facts about my car or any other cars. the only thing i ever read was a mustang racing stock for stock against a integra type r , i wish i could remember what mag. it was in but... the whole time they were raging on this mustang not a gt but a v8, saying how much it sucked and they were gonna smoke it on everything but the 1/4 mile. well to make it short. the mustang beat the type r on the road coarse by a good amount. i am thinking to myself that our cars usually score better than the mustangs in all the comparisons.... im sorry im rambling on. but do the fbodies do good on the solo racing autocross tracks or do we get beat up on by smaller cars like the 240sx's and wrx's and such

LT4Firehawk

First off, what is an s14???

Now, as to handling, a lot of it depends on whether you are talking autox or roadcourse. If you are talking a short autox track with lots of low speed corners, then yes many small/lightweight cars can beat an f-body. However, where an f-body really shines is on a high speed autox or roadcourse track. Here's some numbers for you from my local track with me driving:

Z06: 1:29 (350RWHP, PFC Z pads, Nitto 555Rs on rear)

LT4 Firehawk: 1:33 (311RWHP, LS1 front brakes w/ Carbotech XPs, Nitto 555R IIs, Koni DAs up front)

92 Vette: 1:34 (280RWHP, Nitto 555R/RIIs w/ 9.5" front/11" rear, PFC Z pads, upgraded springs and shocks)

95 Firebird: 1:34 (280RWHP, 265 Kumho Victoracers, PFC Z pads, LCAs, adj panhard, STB, 4.10s)

For comparison, well driven stock C5s run that track at about 1:34-1:35. In any of those cars, stock Miatas, Integras, etc are nowhere close. Even a blown Miata was not much of a problem to pass and walk away from in the 92 Vette. That time on the 95 Firebird was actually at a Porsche event, and the time was one of the fastest in the 3rd run group out of 5 (run groups were aranged by times).

Basically it all comes down to the total package. While Miatas, Integras, etc are good in the corners, they just do not have the torque and HP to compete on a roadcourse.

cndctrdj

s14 is a 94-?98?i think nissan 240sx

thanks for answering my question but now that brings me another one. what has a better raod holding ability, i know this is kind of an odd general subject, but i feel like my car handles pretty well. when i am getting on or off the highway or going down a windy road. my friends don't believe me, neither does anyone else who owns an import (the people my friends hang out with) i don't like going too fast around corners on the street cause you just don't know whats around them and trees hurt. so i was going to try and get in on some autocross tracks or road coarse racing this year if i could find anything in my area. i just didn't want to have my friends make a complete fool of me when i go out thier and they are 15 seconds faster than me on a track. so is it worth my time to try or will these integras 240's and dsm's totally burn me out thier?

LT4Firehawk

A 240SX is a good handling car stock, but is really lacking on power. However, they can be made to handle great, and can have significant HP gains for reasonable $$. There's one that runs at our local track in one of the competition series and he has won his class several times. Of course, he'd get eaten for breakfast by a race prepared f-body, so it's all relative.

As to taking your car to a opentrack event, I'd say go for it. Just realize that you should be going to learn and have fun, NOT to race anyone. Having said that, you shouldn't have any problem running similar roadcourse times as long as they aren't modded out the wazoo. As for autox, there are really too many variables to give a good answer. If your friends have been doing autox, you will probably get embarassed the first few times out, but from what you are saying I doubt they do any. If they did autox, they would know that the f-body is a good platform already.

Grease

LT4Firehawk has it right, they are good at higher speeds. I've never raced my camaro at a track so I don't have lap times but I work for a dealer that sells alot of high dollar european cars and I've driven all kinds of sports cars. The Camaro seems kinda mushy at tight low speed cornering but handles high speed cornering, like highway ramps pretty good. But then all the Jaguar and Benz sedans and Porsches except for maybe the Boxster aren't that good at low speeds as say the VWGolf or RX8. I'm not an experienced racer so I can't give a good basis of comparison between the camaro and other cars, I just know that the Camaro isn't as bad as most people believe. Now if we could put Sam Strano behind the wheel of all the cars I've driven, we'll know just how good the Camaro really is.

KeithO

Actual performance will be subjective and vary greatly with driver. Mods have an influence, too. I think the smart way to try to compare cars is intelligent use of the following links that include SCCA Solo II Stock classing and the results at the Solo II Nationals. In the stock class, you can be assured that you are nearest to comparing apples-to-apples, nearest to stock level of mods with very good drivers competing.

Pick two cars here and note their classing:
http://moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2003/stockm.html
Note that f-bodies are classed in FS (F-stock)

Now, go lookup the results for the respective classes (or even cars within the classes) here:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...lts/index.html

To use your example, the F-Stock (FS) winner at the 2003 Nationals was an LT1 Camaro with a "score" or combined course time of 109.497 seconds.

You used the example of the 240SX, which is classed in G-Stock (GS). On the same course, at the same event, the top car in GS was a Celica with a "score" or combined time of 112.963. This car with the best driver in class was about 3% slower than the FS winner... Out of the 43 cars that ran GS, none were 204SX's... Even in a slower class, it appears that the 240SX is not the ticket...

This sort of exercise is the closest you can get to a true comparison between cars. It's serious drivers, driving car seriously on a level playing field (for the most part - weather can come into play).

As an f-body driver, you'll always get smack talk from people with zero experience with our cars. People with opinions, with no experience or knowledge are simply not too bright. They will grow up someday or be poor and stupid all of their lives...

Pick two more cars and do the comparison. It really can be interesting and illuminating (and for the ignorant, infuriating).

cndctrdj

you people are friggin awsome. thank you very much for the information you have shown me. i will use it to the best of my ability (by that i will be showing it to all the people who talk smack) and i will definatly try to do as much racing on the tracks as i can to get better at what i want to do