Auto to Manual

Hey, I was wondering how hard it would be to convert my auto to a manual. How long should this take? Could you all give me some advice, and what products I should buy.

Thanks

you would be much better off, just trading for another car.

My advice?Don't do it.The 5-speed tranny is weaker than the auto.Not to mention the fact that you won't be as quick at the strip.If you are just going to do it for the "fun factor" then good luck.Here's what I "think" you'd need:
-Tranny (complete including clutch)
-Cut a hole in you car (for the clutch)
-New PCM (yours is for an auto tranny)
-New center console
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Kevin

Stick with the auto, a conversion would be costly unless you can get the parts used. I personally love the manual and think that not enough f bodies ever where ordered with manuals in them, any way you could check out www.fparts.us , a salvage yard if you want the parts from a wrecked car. Good Luck

I just did it with my 2.8l Camaro... good bit of work, but IMO worth it. Got all the stuff from a junk yard for ~$110 (T5, pedals, flywheel, console, blah blah). New clutch/pressure plate from a local auto parts store for ~$120.

I took the dash completly out of my car b/c I was fixing hte a/c while it was down... it makes working on the car a lot easier anyway... cutting the holes in the transmission/driveshaft tunnel and the firewall wasn't too bad.

Driveshafts were the same, torque arms were the same... transmission mounts were the same... crossmember was the same.... my speedo gear is way off (70=90+mph), but I have a different rearend in the car (2.73s I think now.. ish) so I dunno what Ima do about that. The car is definitly faster in my opinion, but I never ran it at the track (waste of money).

Couple other things too... had to put a pilot bearing in the crank... and my 2.8 was an internally balanced motor. The 2.8 we got the T5 out of was externally balanced (come to find out later... pain in the ass heh)... the flywheel had weights and holes on it to make up for the motor not being balanced and stuff. We had to grind off the weights and take it to a machine shop and get it balanced perfectly.

:)
-Bud

Automatic transmissions are not faster at the track. They are more consistant. The higher in performance you go, the more prevalent you see manual transmissions.

John Force uses a manual transmission because its slower - no I don't think so.

You lose 5% more power through parasitic drag running an automatic tranny.
The stock T-5 is rated between 250 to 275 Ft-lbs. There are very few V6's putting that much down at the crank for reliability to be an issue.

Aside from the fun factor, Manual transmissions are more fuel efficient, and cheaper to rebuild and maintain than a 4L60-E. There is also a weight reduction going with a manual.

It can be done, the only thing different from a regular Auto to manual swap is the fact that you have to swap computers too.

I've seen T-5's behind 400+ Ft-lbs if built right.

i was thinking about it but i realized its not cost effective
...and i want an LS1 ...:D

Originally posted by Bliggida
Automatic transmissions are not faster at the track.

Depends on the setups. An automatic can be quicker. Stock for stock, the manual is like .1-.2 seconds faster :rolleyes:
And it sucks when you miss a gear! The automatic tranny will shift faster than any human can shift a manual ;)

Originally posted by ibanez6rg
Depends on the setups. An automatic can be quicker. Stock for stock, the manual is like .1-.2 seconds faster :rolleyes:
And it sucks when you miss a gear! The automatic tranny will shift faster than any human can shift a manual ;)

:confused: When I had exhaust, I raced my friends stock automatic firebird, and won by like 2-3 car lengths. I'm sure thats much more than a .1 or .2 secs. If I remember correctly, stock for stock, the A4 was about a second slower than the T-5. I agree if the setup is right, the auto can shift faster than any human can. As for missing a gear, don't, that's where skill comes in ;)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't cams for autos differant than cams for manuals? If so you would have to get another cam.

They can be different, but for the average joe looking for more pep and better gas mileage, no they are the same. If you start getting into big lift and duration, you'll wanna swap to a manual. The right torque converter can make a dramatic difference. But ultimately, you are stuck with having to keep RPM up before shifting first to keep from stalling. On bigger engines, this can be considered to a degree a moot point, because that much torque present, it really doesn't matter what RPM the engines at, it's going to push the car forward.

IB you're right, an automatic can shift fast, but most people that say "automatics are faster" are people who are slower and want to feel good about owning an automatic. Not the guy who has a race prepped TH-350 with a full Manual shift kit, a trans-brake, and is computer-air shifted with CO2.

Automatics can shift faster than a manual if properly built, and most never get to that point. Because if you are using your hand to ratchet shift, then you will still lose to a manual with a short throw and speed shifiting. Aside from that, a fast shift doesn't mean faster overall package.

You are still losing 5% more power than the manual transmission, and whether you can shift fast or not, won't make a difference you are going to lose by being underpowered.

If you were to look at two Funny cars, one with an automatic (that could actually handle the abuse) and a manual. The auto would have about 300 horsepower less than the manual. No matter how fast you can shift, you are going to be outpowered down the track.

CamaroSpeedDemon, another point that I can think of to better answer your question is that, typically, factories don't make cams different but they do give the automatics taller gearing.
In out case the manual will get 3.08s, and the automatic to offset its powerloss will get 3.42's. Which is the equivalent of about 22 horsepower. They lose about 10 horsepower at the wheels with the auto, and then about another 10 in the gearing advantage we have - which is not normal. Most of the time the GM 3.06 first gear is always lower than the competitor. But the manual does have a 3.75 first gear.

Yea...seeing how funny cars don't even have transmissions!!!

Yeah, so funny...because they do have transmissions, they are manual.
I suppose the clutches they have to rebuild every 1 to 3 runs aren't for the transmission right?
:rolleyes:
Here's why you're wrong part 1 (http://wizardswarehouse.com/raceteam/car.htm) I guess when he says transmission he must be lying right???
Here is why you're wrong part 2 (http://www.mikeetter.com/html/car_specs.html) Look, this one has a Lenco based Transmission. Must be a misprint...
Here is why you're wrong part 3 (http://sgroracing.tripod.com/carspecs.htm) Look another Lenco based Transmission Geez, if they aren't running transmissions, what on earth could it possibly be that they are referring to when they say they have a transmission??? Mind boggling.
Here is why you're wrong part 4 (http://www.neese-n-knowles.com/car.html) Oh look! Not only does this guy have a transmission - a Lenco, he's even got an AFT 18 lever Clutch

So thanks, but I know what I'm talking about.

OK, the only time they do anything is when they go off the line. All it is, is a direct drive. All those pressue plates melt together after every run. Which then they will need replaced. Everything is tore apart after every run and then rebuilt. There really is no "transmission" to it. Sorry but I don't have time to look at your links which are entitiled "This is why you're wrong..." :rolleyes::p

That's okay, you don't have to. Everyone else and I included are aware you don't know what you're talking about in this area.

And I'm not going to bother posting any links, but you are wrong again, there is quite a bit of shifting done on a Lenco based transmission. There are levers for each individual gear change, and also one for burnout. And they do react off of a clutch, just like the rest of us do.

You need to take a ride, or hang out in the pits of a funny car, or talk to a crew chief/driver. You have no idea how busy a 5 second run can be.

Just because they don't use the clutch after they leave the line doesn't mean it's not a transmission. I don't use the clutch after 1st gear, does that mean I don't have a transmission?

This Lenco company that was mentioned so many times. Go to their website. Read up on their "Transmisisons". In about 20 seconds I'm sure you'll see you were gravely mistaken.

Funny cars have transmissions,
Top Fuel cars have transmissions,
Every form of racing uses a transmission short of rocket powered cars.

Originally posted by ibanez6rg
OK, the only time they do anything is when they go off the line. All it is, is a direct drive. All those pressue plates melt together after every run. Which then they will need replaced. Everything is tore apart after every run and then rebuilt. There really is no "transmission" to it. Sorry but I don't have time to look at your links which are entitiled "This is why you're wrong..." :rolleyes::p

Uhh... unless youre saying that the driveshaft is direcly attatched to the engine then you are wrong. Funny cars do have transmissions. Just because they only last one run doesnt mean its not a transmission.

Originally posted by my283cam
Hey, I was wondering how hard it would be to convert my auto to a manual. How long should this take? Could you all give me some advice, and what products I should buy.

Thanks

http://mavness.com/camarozach/trans.htm

camaro_zach on firebirdV6.com

I'd skimp on the 700 dollar GM robbery. That'll lower your costs quite a bit.

"Yea...seeing how funny cars don't even have transmissions!!!"

"Yeah, so funny...because they do have transmissions, they are manual.
I suppose the clutches they have to rebuild every 1 to 3 runs aren't for the transmission right?"

You're both right.

Some do have transmissions, some don't. The ones that don't still need a clutch to get off the line, but the only gears are the rear end gears. This link:

http://wizardswarehouse.com/raceteam/car.htm

says the "transmission" is high gear only. There's really no transmission, it's just a solid shaft.

This link:

http://www.mikeetter.com/html/car_specs.html

says this alcohol funny car uses a 3 speed Lenco.

A 1993 book I have (The Anatomy and Development of the Top Fuel Dragster) says:

"Put simply, current Top Fuel Dragsters are powerful enough to use a direct drive system. Transmissions are not needed."

Earlier Top Fuel cars did use a two speed transmission.

Some do, some don't. :D

Could be, honestly, I haven't turned wrenches on dragsters in years. Some stuff may have changed. With 6,000 horsepower, its not a question of them being powerful enough, its do they have the gearing???

For a 36.62 inch tire, and a 1:1 direct drive ratio, that means you've got to run a 2.50 rear end gear to go 300 MPH at 8,000 RPM. Now, yes a 6,000 horsepower dragster will certainly pull that high a gear, but it doesn't sound right. I'm use to seeing a 3.20:1 gear in the differential on a dragster. Which means you need at the minimum a two speed transmission, which is what most of them use. That combined with how the tire grows on down the track, by the end at 8,000 they are breaking 300+ MPH.

Also you mentioned a Lenco based transmission, as if they aren't manual. As stated, they have a lever for each gear, they are fully manually shifted, and they have a clutch - how are they not manual transmissions???
When the guy talks about only having the high gear...high gear of what, a direct drive? Direct drives don't have more than one gear which is a one to one ratio. If it has more than one gear it has to be a transmission even if only by techincality. He has a Lenco, and using the high gear of it. Still a tranny.

This is confusing. How can a car (or a drag racer) not have a clutch? Even if a car has an automatic transmission it has a torque converter which acts like a clutch, right? I mean, a car can't be in gear all the time. How would you start it up? How would you push it around? Even if there is only 1 gear there has to be a clutch (or something that engages the gears)- or am I missing something?

Geez, you're a hard man to convince. That's a challenge I can't refuse. This will be overkill. :D

"For a 36.62 inch tire, and a 1:1 direct drive ratio, that means you've got to run a 2.50 rear end gear to go 300 MPH at 8,000 RPM. Now, yes a 6,000 horsepower dragster will certainly pull that high a gear, but it doesn't sound right. "

It is exactly right. The clutches are called "slipper clutches" and are designed to slip enough to not bog the engine down at the start of the run.

From an NHRA Top Fuel article:

[Unquestionably, the clutch is the most crucial element for Top Fuel success, so much so that the Schumacher team has added a dynamometer specifically for developing this component. The car has no transmission, so the five-disc clutch is set up to slip just enough to keep the tires from breaking traction. ]

"When the guy talks about only having the high gear...high gear of what, a direct drive? Direct drives don't have more than one gear which is a one to one ratio. If it has more than one gear it has to be a transmission even if only by techincality. He has a Lenco, and using the high gear of it. Still a tranny."

"Direct drive" means just a shaft. If you're not going to shift, you wuldn't run thousands of HP through gears which could break just for kicks.

From a couple of UK Funny Car sites:

[Next year we're moving to direct drive. We're the only car left with a two-speed. Direct drive makes a big difference, the car feels more powerful. With the two-speed we have at the moment, it's like the old days when I ran 6.0s, but I think we should be able to get it into the fives. ]

[Spuffard pedaled the Showtime Funny Car to a 6.01, whilst Gordon Smith ran a 6.53 in the Shockwave car. Gordon has switched from a transmission setup to a direct drive system, and this first pass looked clean, straight, and strong.]

From a dragbike site:

[About the bike
*ProDragster
*114 cubic inches
* 5" stroke
* 3 13/16" bore
* Burns carborated nitro-methane for fuel
* No transmission-direct drive with a centrifugal clutch]

Convinced? Some use a transmission, some don't.

"This is confusing. How can a car (or a drag racer) not have a clutch? Even if a car has an automatic transmission it has a torque converter which acts like a clutch, right? I mean, a car can't be in gear all the time. How would you start it up? How would you push it around? Even if there is only 1 gear there has to be a clutch (or something that engages the gears)- or am I missing something?"

You've got it exactly right. Everyone has a clutch and rear end gears. Some have a transmission in between and shift, some have a solid shaft, aka "direct drive" and don't.

your all idiots, now shut up. Again, if you want a manual that badly just go and look for a trade, your might have to pay a little bit on top and some taxes, but it will be cheaper and a lot less frustating than converting your car.

Originally posted by bigsteve7
Uhh... unless youre saying that the driveshaft is direcly attatched to the engine then you are wrong. Funny cars do have transmissions. Just because they only last one run doesnt mean its not a transmission.

I never stated that, that's not what direct-drive means. And I said the pressure plates melted together, not the "gears" in the "transmission" ;)

That's okay, you don't have to. Everyone else and I included are aware you don't know what you're talking about in this area.

Yea, I bet everyone is aware ;):rolleyes:

Eh Bob. Just needed to make a few changes.
I earlier said that it would take a 2.50 rear gear with a 36.62" tire at 8000 RPM if you have a 1:1 gear. And that is incorrect. I inadvertently changed tire diameters, and my earlier calculations were for a 32.26" tire.

Dragsters do run a 36.xx" tires, they do have a 1:1 gear, and the rears are 3.20's. That in math will equate to 274 MPH at 8,000 RPM, but you've got to figure in tire-swell, and that can easily add 12 inches to the tire diameter. So all said and done and the south end of the track they post just over 300 MPH at 8,000 RPM before shutdown.

As I said before, Could be, honestly, I haven't turned wrenches on dragsters in years. Some stuff may have changed. With 6,000 horsepower, its not a question of them being powerful enough, its do they have the gearing??? Its be a long time, things have changed. When I was in the pits, we had more than one gear.

:eek: Wow,this thread got waaaaaay off topic.We're talking about V6's here guys,not 8,000 hp top fuel dragsters!For normal cars like ours,driven by normal people like us.You WILL get better times at the track on equally modded cars if you are an average everyday driver.Plus that HUGE 5% difference ya'll keep talking about is only like 15hp on a 300hp car.That can be made up by 1 or 2 bolt-ons,or even factory tolerances.You WILL get a better launch with an auto,therefore unless your manual has gobs more power,you will get beat.Especially on the SAME car.Let's say his car has 200rwhp.That's only 10hp at the wheels.With a MUCH better 60',he'll more than make up for that 10hp.
Kevin