FYI - Big MSCC event April 12, 2003

Big road course event. Last October was a huge success so we're doing it again. We'll be running on the Gainesville International Raceway's practice road course. The only cones will be to point you in the right direction (no slaloms or any of the regular autocross stuff). Rental GoKarts will NOT be available. Loaner helmets, as always, will be. Hope to see some of you out there.

Check out the club's website for more details.

www.martinsportscarclub.com

How is the experience of Auto Xing in a Camaro???

I missed the chance when I had my 88 RX-7, but I persoanly wouldnt feel to comfortabel doing it in a camaro. Not with out some good lessons atleast.

I'm happy with mine, obviously. You compete against other's driving similar cars so you don't have to worry about keeping up with the supercharged Miatas and Z06s. The beauty of autocrossing is that it's 75% driver and 25% car ability. There's a guy driving a Nissan Sentra that's consistently one of the faster entries.

The stock Camaros aren't the BEST handling cars out there. They're wide and heavy with weak springs and sway bars. They get a lot of body roll. But I still enjoyed it when I was racing my 87 Civic 4 door. The only suspension I've done to my car so far is a STB. Plus I just got Race tires (Victoracers). My times for the past 2 months have been getting pretty close to the winners in A Prepared class (C5 Vettes). Even faster than the slower C5's in the same class. But a lot of that is driving experience too. I compete is GT Prepared class.

If anybody is at all interested and would like to follow me to an event and have someone show you the ropes, I'd be more than happy to meet up with you before an event and lead the way. This is what I look forward to every single month. Even if you just want to come out and observe. That won't cost a penny. Free to watch. Usually $25 to run. This month it's $40 cause we're paying a ton of money to rent the track.

Originally posted by Anderson
...Not with out some good lessons atleast.

Also ... I forgot to mention:

The first 3 events you participate in, you're in 'Novice' class with others who are as new to the game as you are. We also have "Novice Instructors" to give you constructive driving tips to help you drive better. One of our instructors is a Skip Barber Driving School instructor during the week. He's always more than happy to ride along with you to give you pointers. He'll also drive your car, if you want, to show you how you can drive it better. This is all included in the entry fee. No extra charge.

Guys this course is the course a F-body will compete in, longer streaing aways, and sweeoping curves, not as many tight side to side turns thowing hte wiegh ot the f-body around.

I came in third only losing to 2 drivers in the same car last gainesville event, with street tires, only other time I competed so well with street tires was against wrxs on race tires in the rain.


I really really want to go but the girlfriend bought 2 tickets ot the race in Martinsville that sunday, I'll see if I can make it but its doubtful, of all the Nascar race weekends that is probable the worse for me.


This is FAAAAR more fun then an autocross in my opinion, I wouldn't even think twice about the entrance fee, and I am a cheap ass bastard.

I'm not sure running Gainsville as a first event would be a good idea for a beginner due to the higher speeds involved. If I'm not mistaken MSCC was "discouraging" novices from attending the last Gainsville event last Oct. but they were't turning anyone away either.

As an alternative (or if you just want some extra practice) the SCCA is holding a "normal" event at Valencia CC (West campus) on April 6th.

http://209.26.216.140/Flyers2003/VCC040603.pdf

Its by far my favorite place to autocross (shade!!) and its alot closer than Palm Bay or Gainsville. I'll probably be out there and I hope to see some fellow F-Body people. If nothing else just come out and watch!

hehe I need to get back out autocross, I have 2 good tires(thanks former86owner, see any movies yet?) that I want ot put up front, but still need to check on my car which reminds me I need to give them a call, they have had it for 3 days, and haven't even told me whats wrong. They did at least move it, when I was trashed on my b-day we drove by it on the way down town and it wasn't out front.

Originally posted by Soma07
... If I'm not mistaken MSCC was "discouraging" novices from attending the last Gainsville event last Oct. but they were't turning anyone away either....

That is true. But as long as you don't have it in your head that you can drive like Mario Andretti just cause you've watched Fast&Furious 17 times, you should be okay. Just take it a little more on the conservative side on the first run to get aquainted with the car's "limits".

Did VCC repave their parking lots? I heard that they might have. That's the main reason I swore I wouldn't go back there. The old surface was murder on my tires.

Originally posted by 2002Z28SSConv
That is true. But as long as you don't have it in your head that you can drive like Mario Andretti just cause you've watched Fast&Furious 17 times, you should be okay. Just take it a little more on the conservative side on the first run to get aquainted with the car's "limits".



honestly, I thought the gianessville race was easier. Ut I like to tke sweeping turns fast, I am more unaccustomed ot quickj weight tranbsfer type tracks

One of our instructors is a Skip Barber Driving School instructor during the week. He's always more than happy to ride along with you to give you pointers. He'll also drive your car, if you want, to show you how you can drive it better. This is all included in the entry fee. No extra charge.

My experience with Gerardo didn't work like that. I asked him numerous times to ride with me and give me pointers. He kept giving me excuses about how many requests he had, or he couldn't do it until after his last run, etc. Finally, he had his helmet with him standing outside my door only 2-3 cars before I made my last run at Gainesville. Without explanation he gets in the back seat of a BMW with 1-2 other passengers and blows me off. He rode in Jackie's C5 a few times that day. Guess an F-body isn't good enough for him.

Don Hosler drove/rode with me at my first AutoX. He didn't give me tips while driving and didn't offer me the sort of technical review I was seeking. I want someone who's going to coach me while I drive, tell me I need to alter rebound/compression on certain shocks, tell me I need more spring rate, brake sooner or more smoothly, etc.

This will be my last opportunity to race in the Novice class, and it'll definitely leave a bad taste in my mouth if the instructor situation doesn't get better. I can tell you I won't spend any money at Skip Barber's school based upon Gerardo's attitude.

Only instuction I have hade is Gran Turismo, and 3-4 tips form Chuck when he rode with me 1-2 times :)

Jim: FWIW I got the same impression from some of the guys there. They seem to have an elitiest attitude (IMO) which definately doesnt help the new people feel welcome.

The exception was Bob _____ (his last name escapes me at the moment but he drives the white Miata w/rotary motor). Several times he was kind enough to ride with me and give me tips as we went along.


Chuck: I have no idea, I might have a chance to go out there and check though. Still I didnt think the surface was that bad, certainly no worse than the lot that MSCC used to run on at LM.

I also have a suggestion. More Novice instuctors! I know Bob ____ does his best but he is only one person and there can be alot of novices. I think it would be a good idea to have 2-3 of the more experienced drivers assigned to be novice instructors each round. That way novices could recieve instruction every round if they wanted it without having to wait. IMO this should count as "working a round" for the instructors. There are already too many corner workers at most events so the manpower should be there.

Just an idea...

Thats a good idea...

most my instuctions are "wow! you enter corners too hard or cool, never saw an f-body do 360s :)."


There are ltos of awesome guys there, but I know what you mean about a slight elistest thing there, but they are by far the minority there. THe guy with the Miata has talked to me some same with the guy in the 3-door civic on Hoosiers.

Coolest guy I ever met was the guy witht he v6 Stalker, opened wheel car. Cuz it was someone I coudl talk 3.4L tech to because thats what he had in his car :metal:

Unfortunately I'll have to agree about some of the more visible members that have very elitest attitudes. I've been there a year and a half and now know who to avoid. But most members are just so caught up with the daily activities that they forget to mentor the new guys. Making new guests feel more welcome was actually brought up in our January meeting. And I was planning on proposing we have a novice ambassador of sorts. Not to be confused with the novice instructor. Somebody to make sure the new guys feel welcome and get coached on how things get run at the events. I have several suggestion I'm going to bring up at the next meeting. I'll make this one a priority now.

Jim, sorry about the instructor deal. I do have to say that your experience was definately a fluke. In our first Gainesville event everybody was so excited and things were so unorganized that you must have slipped through the cracks. No excuse. Sorry. If you see any of this happening again in the future please let me or another member know. There are more than enough of us to be able to ride along and give pointers. Also consider asking if you can ride along with one of us. I think you might even get more input from watching the way we drive our cars.

Bob Palmblad is our club vice pres. He drives the supercharged white Miata. I don't think it's a rotary. He's a good guy too. And Bobo (Gerardo) is a great guy too. Give him a second chance. It's worth it. I wish I had 1/10th his driving ability.

Originally posted by Soma07


I also have a suggestion. More Novice instuctors! I know Bob ____ does his best but he is only one person and there can be alot of novices. I think it would be a good idea to have 2-3 of the more experienced drivers assigned to be novice instructors each round. That way novices could recieve instruction every round if they wanted it without having to wait. IMO this should count as "working a round" for the instructors. There are already too many corner workers at most events so the manpower should be there.


I think that's a great idea! The rulebook says that Novice Instructors aren't allowed to ride with novices until they're runs are done. They could assign 2 instructors per round in lieu of having them work positions on the course, and have them be the first two drivers each run. Only two since there's typically only two cars on the course at any one time. It'd be nice if it was the same instructor for each run. Not sure on the logistics of figuring out which driver wanted an instructor. Perhaps tell the starter as soon as you get to the line, and he can signal the instructor from near the trailer? Of course, many starters don't seem to have a high level of concentration.

Just to clarify the previous post, it should not be considered a dig against Don Hosler. He's a great guy and a helluva driver; I just didn't get the feedback I was looking for from him. George Bonilla has been a model rep in my experience. I don't remember his name, but there was a father & son driving what I believe was an Opel. I didn't get to know the son, but the father was very friendly.

Originally posted by 2002Z28SSConv
Bob Palmblad is our club vice pres. He drives the supercharged white Miata.

Thats who I was thinking of! Don't ask me why I thought it was rotary...

BTW Chuck, what is the policy on ride alongs with other people if you're not a novice anymore yet you still suck? My friend <cough, cough> wanted me to ask ;)

Two novices can't ride together. Otherwise there is no restriction.

Originally posted by JimMueller
...The rulebook says that Novice Instructors aren't allowed to ride with novices until they're runs are done.

Are you sure that's not an SCCA rule? I've never seen that in our rulebook.

*** edit ***
I just went and looked at our new 2003 rule book. You're right. It does say that. That's new and it's BS. Someone who is a novice instructor is gonna have enough driving experience that it won't make a difference if he rides along with you. I just wrote that in my planner too. I'll bring it up next month. Man, we're gonna have a long meeting. I hope Lil500 stays open late. :)

FYI - we've been going to Lil500 ahter our meetings let out. We usually have about 10 people show up to race bumper to bumper for a change.

Taken from the MSCC Rulebok 2003, Revised 12/12/02, page 4:



1.7 Novice Class

In addition to classes outlined elsewhere and for the purpose of teaching safe, competitive
driving, the club allows novice drivers to train in a Novice class. Trophies (maximum of 5)
will be awarded for best drivers in this class, but competition points will not. Any
entrant who has driven in less than three autocrosses may opt to drive in the Novice class.
Any driver who wins first place in the Novice Class will no longer be eligible to drive in that
class. Individuals designated as Novice Instructors by the Executive Board may
accompany novices during their timed runs. However, no Novice Instructor may
accompany a novice until the Novice Instructor has completed his or her timed competition
runs for the day. Event chairmen will allow Novice Instructors to complete their timed
competition runs early in the day. A minimum of two drivers is required to compromise
a Novice Class.


EDIT: You would find it while I was typing it in ;)

har har har! :D :p

I will admit all this would have been nice for the Novices... Only coaching I got was a little from chuck and some coaching from the guy that does the Novice Walkthrough. That and Gran Turismo ;)

I am very eager to go. I am a novice but I have heard about this track a lot from others and want to get into this type of racing. How receptive is everyone about new comers and what does everyone recommend I do to prepare more.

Originally posted by former86camaro
I am very eager to go. I am a novice but I have heard about this track a lot from others and want to get into this type of racing. How receptive is everyone about new comers and what does everyone recommend I do to prepare more.

Your participation is definately welcome. Just to give me an idea of your driving ability, how much driving experience do you have? Go Kart tracks every other week, 18 years old, 40 years old, always driven sports cars, had 3 collisions in the past 2 years, never get over 45 MPH, what...? If your level of driving experience/ability is low then I'd suggest using a very conservative driving style at Gainesville, just because of the speeds that are involved. Usually we see top speeds of less than 45 MPH month to month. We'll get close to 90 at GIR. Otherwise you should do just fine. Just start slow to get a feel of how far you can push your car in the corners. Then get progressively faster as the day goes on.

As far as preparation goes, just be sure that your car battery is secured, your fluids are topped off, your brake pads aren't 1/16th of an inch away from metal on metal, and all your lug nuts are present. Since this is your first time out, you could probably bring a Lambo Diablo out and still run slower than an Escort GT. That's how much driving technique comes into play. So any mods you could do to your car won't help too much. They would help some. Don't get me wrong. But see if this is something you want to do again before you go through too much trouble. About the best preparation you could do is to, like Eric said, brush up on your Gran Turismo skills. ;) I prefer Need For Speed - Porsche Unleashed. If you have steering wheels and pedals hooked up to your PC these games can actually help alot if the physics of the game are realistic enough. Porsche Unleashed is extremely accurate.

But most of all, just be sure not to take yourself too seriously. Don't expect to win. This is, after all, just for fun. Some of us take it pretty seriously. But not to an extreme that it no longer is "fun". :cool:

Originally posted by 2002Z28SSConv
Two novices can't ride together. Otherwise there is no restriction.

I just realized what I said. Just so there's no confusion from new guests, anybody strapped into a car on the track HAS to be registered and competing in the event. No spectators are allowed. Insurance:rolleyes:. Fun runs, after the competition is over, are a different story. A competing driver can drive any competing vehicle and they can also take spectators with a driver license in the passenger seats. All vehicle occupants must sign release waivers and wear seat belts and helmets. So there actually is a bit of a restriction. Sorry.