Spraying lots of nitrous- Need help, advice and predictions

Hey guys-
I'm pretty new to this nitros gig so goes nothing.
My bottom end will be fine-
Forged, billet and bad ass.

I want to spray 225 shot- but i want at least dual stage.
Should I go with a 20# bottle?

Thing is though, 225 shot = !traction on street.
what if-
I set up an inline resistor to the soliniod, and for the road set it at 1/2 open?
this way if things got hot and heavy i cold turn it upto 225 in 3rd gear and tear through 80-130:bow:
after that, no matter what i'm shutting down a race (probobly before that anyway, like 110)

also, is there anything wrong with spraying to 6500rpms?

What kind of nitrous system do yo guys suggest, how much will it cost and how are installations on these things?

FWIW i'm gonna mount them in wide open sight :)

First off, I may have seen you in the Z on I-75 today. Am I correct?

Spraying 200+ on top of a nice stroker motor would mean no traction on the street until about 4th gear on the street. I'd suggest that you invest in some stock sized Et Streets and be DAMn careful on rainy days:D

A "nitrous mastermind" or a Progressive Controller would be your best bet. Instead of running a dual stage, you can just set two knobs for what percentage of the 225 shot you wanted from 0-100% and you can also control how fast you want that percentage to be applied. Probably from 0-10 seconds. It definately helps with traction tuning at the track!

6500 RPM? If you want. However, many people see quicker ETs when they short shift their nitrous application. Mainly because nitrous oxide produces brutal amounts of low end torque. Spraying below 2500-3000 is a thing you shouldn't do and a rule of thumb for some people. Some people believe in it, others scrape their parts off the road because their engine just got hit with roughly 1000 lb-ft of torque...hehe

I spray at 2500 through 5500. I did a few calculations and while engaged at 2500 RPM, my 100 shot of spray makes my little stock 305 bottom end produce something like 425 or 500 lb-ft of TQ for that split second. And ya know what? It definately feels like it:D

A 20lb bottle would be nice with a big shot. OR dual 15's:D

Goodluck and pray for traction.

TREYZ28-

you can work a dual stage on the street just fine. OR you could do the progressive. its really just like its been with everything else, how deep your pockets are.

if youve got the $$$, then id say go all out. get whatever floats your boat. kits will start most places around 600 bucks and go on up into the 1000s. id get all the safety stuff, guages/switches/controllers/etc. the word of the day is EXCESSERIZE(sp):D

if your working on a budget, you can do it much cheaper. i put mine together for under $400 and ive heard of people buying used peices and putting them together, although i personally wouldnt recommend that. all my stuff was brand new.

but yea, a dual stage would work fine. like a 100/125. EITHER way, you WILL need some ETs streets/QT Pros to get traction on the street with that beast of a motor.

as far as installation, its fairly simple. your gonna want to get a WET kit. let me say that again, WET KIT;) i imagine youve prolly been a part of at least part of some of you cars build up, and if your even halfway mechanically inclined, you shouldnt have any problem. any kit you get will come with instructions that are pretty easy to follow.


good luck and ask as many Qs as you want!:D




jon

Check out the new direct port from Nx. Bad ass new system. Dual stage fogger nozzle in one. I think this would be worth checking out for you.

can someone exain the different systems
i know dry and a TB plate
i know the rest too, just dont know names
is fogger where it mixes with fuel?
expain advantages and disadvantages of each please :D :bow:

I would go with the TNT kit from www.nitrous-power.com I have heard really good things and just ordered one myself. Many problems, is your motor built for n2o? With a shot of that nature you will need new pistons of some sort and probly a raised compression ratio. Spraying to 6500 is bad, because if you bounce of the rev limiter when spraying you can say bye bye to your engine and your car until you get more money and time to fix it. I also agree with the not below 2500 rpm, even if your engine(allparts) handles it, no traction.

Dual stage, hmmm....I believe actually sell electronics that will vary the amount of spray at a particular rpm, maybe not the spray, but it will work similar to a traction control or something like that. As you can tell I'm not that familure with this item, but believe it exsists.

I highly recomend the TNT system though! As well the piston change, 150 is about the biggest shot I would venture to on stock internal motor. Raised compression too helps n2o BIG time!!(low comp for SC)
Good Luck!!!

Forgot to say WET KIT!!!! I can not stress that enough. It is much safer and easier to tune, much less likely to mess up ur pcm. WET KIT WET KIT WETKI!:D

Originally posted by treyZ28
can someone exain the different systems
i know dry and a TB plate
i know the rest too, just dont know names
is fogger where it mixes with fuel?
expain advantages and disadvantages of each please :D :bow:

Check out this page - it may answer many of your questions

http://www.go-fast.org/z28/new_to_nitrous.html

put together by a fellow board member LPEDAVE

Personally, I've had good luck with 2 nx nozzles in the intake boot, but if I wasnt worrying about a budget, I'd have a Direct port fogger system with a progressive controller. :D

Wooooo!

Your crazy Trey.

Seriously though, this is a magical post for me...


383


Jason

IMO, and others, it's not a good idea to spray over 150 through the throttle body, but that is your choice. You will risk the chance of fuel puddling in the intake and a backfire, and unequal distribution.

For 200+ shots, the best way to go is direct port. Here is a write-up on my current install:

Direct Port Install (http://www.cofba.org/users/reckless/dp.html)

Direct Port Fuel System (http://www.cofba.org/users/reckless/dp_fuel.html)

http://www.cofba.org/users/reckless/nx20.jpg

Running big nitrous is fairly expensive. You can expect to spend in the range of $1500-$2000 for a setup such as mine if you do the work. Expect more like $3k if you pay someone for this level.

reckless - that is intense!!!

:bow:

after much concideration,
i think i'm going with FAST and a 20# bottle shooting progressivly to a max of 750hp- (whatever my max will be on the dyno)

Progressive nitrous controller + dyno tune + any more tunes= most of the cost of the DFI anyway

Why stop at 750? Go until a rod flys through the hood ;)

Originally posted by Reckless
Why stop at 750? Go until a rod flys through the hood ;)
hehe
700-750 is a nice number depending on rpms:)
you can only get so much down on the street :D
well that and all i want is one 10 sec time slip and its going down

Originally posted by Mikael
Missing out on a few things here.


A. As mentioned, the cost can get up there, but not too bad if you plan it out.

B. Fuel. I don't know what you have, but you'll most likely need another fuel system for the nitrous.

C. I honestly think that a 3 or 4 stage setup with 50hp per will be better for you, since its somewhat controllable.

Not to seem too f&f style, but a switch on the wheel for each that you can easily reach. 1 stage per gear.

Seems a bit excessive, but i think will end up cheaper. That way if you only do 150, you dont' need a direct port, just 3 nozzles.

I think i'm doing DFI/FAST:bow:

Originally posted by Reckless
IMO, and others, it's not a good idea to spray over 150 through the throttle body, but that is your choice. You will risk the chance of fuel puddling in the intake and a backfire, and unequal distribution.


Hmmm... my motors been together for over 4 years and I've went well over 200 through the throttle body. So it's definitely possible to do it safely without experiencing puddling or backfires.

'Course if trey has the bucks to go fast dfi and dry, along with the fuel system to support it, then i'm sure he can also afford some type of direct port injection for the the nitrous. :D

Originally posted by Mikael

I honestly think that a 3 or 4 stage setup with 50hp per will be better for you, since its somewhat controllable.

Not to seem too f&f style, but a switch on the wheel for each that you can easily reach. 1 stage per gear.

Seems a bit excessive, but i think will end up cheaper. That way if you only do 150, you dont' need a direct port, just 3 nozzles.

4 stages that are activated by hand? :confused: Are you joking? I cant imagine trying to operate 3 or 4 momentary buttons while driving. How could you steer or shift? .:eek:

Originally posted by speedmiser
4 stages that are activated by hand? :confused: Are you joking? I cant imagine trying to operate 3 or 4 momentary buttons while driving. How could you steer or shift? .:eek:

:bow: Auto :bow:

4 stage is overkill IMHO-
thats like 4 50 shots or something.

I'm going to stick to my dry shot (shoot a little 75 shot) till i get a DFI system. I still need suspension and a rear which are cramping this years budget. I already have head porting, valves and a valve job to pay for.:D

and if someone on the street beats me when i have the 75 shot-
more power to them. 550-600hp is a lot to toy with :)
edit:
i'd never mess with a momentary swtich

4 WOT switches :)

:death:

Make sure you budget for a new tranny if your still running a 4l60e :(
They dont like big nitrous and strokers - too much torque = :death:

Do you have plans to upgrade your fuel system? Or has that already been done. I dont think the stock lines and rails will support the flow you will require to run a 225+ dry shot on your stroker, even with a larger pump or pumps. Dunno for sure - you may want to ask around.

Also, are your rings gaped for spray?

It may be worth your time to stop over in the advance tech section or PM Injuneer. I beleive he's running a 383 with dfi, a dry setup, and a big shot.

Originally posted by speedmiser
Make sure you budget for a new tranny if your still running a 4l60e :(
They dont like big nitrous and strokers - too much torque = :death:

Do you have plans to upgrade your fuel system? Or has that already been done. I dont think the stock lines and rails will support the flow you will require to run a 225+ dry shot on your stroker, even with a larger pump or pumps. Dunno for sure - you may want to ask around.

Also, are your rings gaped for spray?

It may be worth your time to stop over in the advance tech section or PM Injuneer. I beleive he's running a 383 with dfi, a dry setup, and a big shot.

the trans is jacked!
rings are good-
maybe i'll file them when i pull the heads or something

i have a 255 walpro.

A 4 stage could use the same WOT and window switch.

And i was thinking the momentary push button's that you push once and they're on, push again and they're off.



I'd also say that DFI is overkill, you really dont need it.

Originally posted by Mikael
A 4 stage could use the same WOT and window switch.

And i was thinking the momentary push button's that you push once and they're on, push again and they're off.



I'd also say that DFI is overkill, you really dont need it.

FAST is your tuning GOD

Originally posted by treyZ28
the trans is jacked!
Iv'e yet to see a built 4l60(e) live long with over 700 rwtq. You'll probably be making bout 750 rwtq on a 225 shot, assuming your in the 420-430wrtq range NA. I know there are guys running quick NA combos with 4l60's, but they dont see the kind of torque spikes that big nitrous shots provide.

Originally posted by treyZ28

i have a 255 walpro.

I'm not questioning the pumps capability, rather the lines/rails abiltiy to flow the volume you'll need.

I dunno but i have greatluck wit McCeary( american racers)
there damn good i think for a dirt tire on the street , i dunno i myfriend pulls 1.7's @ orlando on themmm just a though and teher way cheapper than et streets



Eddie

OK, Heres the lowdown:

Don't bother with a Dry System unless you are spending the BIG money (Mine was well over $3k) for for a Sequential FAST System with Individual Cylinder tuning. A B2B setup (The Typical $1900-$2000 system) just does not give you enough control. Now believe me when I say that going to a Sequential system opens up a BIG can of worms. I really don't think the Aftermarket EFI system is necessary for you. Thats not to say it isn't better, and you would be better off with it, though I just don't see it being a good Bang for the Buck Item. I'm sure you're not revving this thing over 7k, which is one of the primary reasons many guys go to DFI/FAST

In the end you can get what you want with a Wet system. I don't like progressive controllers, and so I would either use 2 stages, or just have 2 different systems. A Smaller 100hp Single Nozzle System (in front of the TB Type). And a Larger Fogger system just similar to Reckless has shown. Multiple stages are NOT =as simple as they sound, So personally I would just use JUST the Fogger at the track, and the Single Nozzle on the street.

Feel free to give me a shout if you have some questions.

I have access to DFI systems for about $1600:death:

most $1600 dfi setups are BtoB,not sequential,and like Kurtis said,your setup really doesnt need a dfi setup,2 stage wet and have fun.

Originally posted by RacinLT1
most $1600 dfi setups are BtoB,not sequential,and like Kurtis said,your setup really doesnt need a dfi setup,2 stage wet and have fun.

its F.A.S.T.:death:

The basic FAST systems are bank2bank,sequential's are about 2200+

Originally posted by RacinLT1
The basic FAST systems are bank2bank,sequential's are about 2200+
ohh ok... i was a bit confused
How do you like your nitrous controller?

Im VERY Happy with the maximizer,matter of fact it came through the grapevine and i believe it was once Kurtis'.
Thats what i attribute my 1.51 60's to,with a stock torque arm.

Im going to a dual stage with the new engine,so i probably wont be using it much longer.

that sounds aweome...keep us posted that is a big big shot if you ask me!!

Originally posted by RacinLT1
Im VERY Happy with the maximizer,matter of fact it came through the grapevine and i believe it was once Kurtis'.
Thats what i attribute my 1.51 60's to,with a stock torque arm.

Im going to a dual stage with the new engine,so i probably wont be using it much longer.

good, give it to me

thats awsome 1.5 60 foot time.....