2004 Mustang Boss Engine ?

Well, unless I'm reading too much into this, I'd say this is the 1st hint of the next performance Mustang, the 2004 Boss:

"...Acknowledging its US heritage and manufacture - it's a new three-valve unit that hasn't been released in the US yet - the uniquely-specified Australian version is built on the Essex low volume production line. With its fitment to the Falcon, this is the first use of this Ford V8 engine in a passenger car anywhere in the world. It will see the light of day in the US in 2003..."

That spy picture of the next Mustang mule sure did have a really raised hood.

The whole article:
http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_1523/P_4/article.html

BTW, if anyone's interested, the Mach1 will have 335 horsepower (325 w/automatic) and 355ft/lbs of torque.

By comparason, F body LS1s have 320hp (max F-body) 335ft/lbs of torque.

In short, boys & girls, the new Mach1 is more than likely FASTER than than our quickest factory Z28, Trans Am, Formula, SS, & WS6 LS1 F-bodies.

Just as predicted.

Not quicker necessarily, just rated higher. Also, I believe if a person got every slp option, the hp rating was 345...........so not really.

...and come on, everyone and their mom knows the ls1 fbodies were way underrated; putting out more like 345-355. Not saying the Mach 1 won't be fast, but I doubt it'll out gun an ls1. I guess we'll see in 2003 http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

Alex

------------------
1997 30th Anniversary Z28
M6, ttop, FIPK, custom stainless TB plate and radiator shroud, Hooker cut out, Hurst, Lou's, free mods
CFFB #049
13.83@101.4 on a 2.1 60'

If you only knew how much I didn't care...

It's the TORQUE we need to look at! http://web.camaross.com/bb/eek.gif

Torque=Acceleration
Horsepower (and aerodynamics)=speed

Last December there was a warning posted here about the new S/C Cobra being as fast as an LS1 Corvette that wasn't heeded. Now I'm posting a warning about Mach1s that will at least run the quarter quicker than an the top drawer factory LS1 F-body, let alone base Z28s.

The numbers add up. The old Cobra ran with only a tick ( roughly <.2 seconds or so) behind an SLP SS. Cobras also lost alot of acceleration with it's jerryrigged IRS. The new Mach1 has a solid rear axle, a higher axle ratio, 6 speeds (opposed to 5 more widely spaced ones on the old Cobra) and more TORQUE than the old Cobra engine did.

Just remember, I said it here 1st. Let the naysaying begin. http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

So, will the BOSS Mustang have 5.0 liters or 5.4?

And how many HP is 260kw?

We'll see. So other than the scoop, what other hp mods does it have?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by guionM:
It's the TORQUE we need to look at! http://web.camaross.com/bb/eek.gif

Torque=Acceleration
Horsepower (and aerodynamics)=speed

http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif</font>

Famous saying, big TQ wins races but HP sells cars http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SNEAKY NEIL:
We'll see. So other than the scoop, what other hp mods does it have?</font>


Uh... a 32V DOHC V8... http://web.camaross.com/bb/confused.gif


Btw, it also has 3.55 gears and upgraded brakes and suspension.

They shoulda put that motor in the Bullitt http://web.camaross.com/bb/frown.gif

------------------
Never trust anyone with lots of plants.

2001 Mustang Bullitt GT (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thill294318MI/welcome2.htm)
2000 Jetta M5
1988 C1500 A3

One thing seems clear, it doesn't look like Ford will be resting on it's laurels with the Mustang...F-body or no F-body to compete with.

Good for them, I say!

It looks like Ford and others will have laid the gauntlet for Camaro.

Let's hope we're up for the challenge....NO EXCUSES!!!!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gab:
Famous saying, big TQ wins races but HP sells cars http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

</font>

Very very true. Horsepower is more glamourous, but rarely used. Meanwhile Torque is normally forgotten yet without it, you won't go anywhere very quickly.

where did u here 335 hp in the mach? i herd it was 300 give or take a few hp.

Sounds very good, but I thought there were a couple of test runs done with Mach I about 2 months ago, and the results were low 13's for manual and a really high 13 for auto, something around 13.9.

I would think that Ford would tweak the cars before production, but who knows, we will see the final results once they hit the street.

There was Mach I that, with slicks, got into 12.9. Didn't MM&FF get SS to run 12.9x straight from the factory? So there http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

Regarding GuionM's warning - I think those Mustangs will run on par with LS1's, but not faster. I suspect that automatics will be slower than LS1 autos, but we'll see.

Two thumbs up to Ford.

The problem is, Ford's automatics are junk. They have been for as long as I can remember. So I'm not surprised that a stick Mach 1 could be almost a full second faster than an auto. That said, if the Mach 1 is a "true" 335 HP I don't see it being faster than an '01 or '02 LS1 F-body, which routinely makes 360+ HP at the crank. Only time will tell I guess, and like others have said kudos to Ford for releasing these kinds of things.

------------------
Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

Sorry for changing the subject..but while were talking about mustangs, has anyone else noticed that the new au Falcon looks like the front of what could be a new mustang with the rear of a Holden attatched to it?

Where did you get that figure of 335/355? So far, all that I have heard was that the only performance mods were the hood scoop and the different gears.............so what else would there be to get that number, and to jump 50 ft-lbs?

http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif WOW!! http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

Great article guionM! I was aware of Fords work on the V8s, but I had not heard about the development of the turbos down under. Holy bageezes - that 4-liter I/C turbo is gonna rock - hard. Did any of you guys read page 7 (http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_1523/P_7/article.html) of the article guionM linked? I had no idea they were putting that much effort into turbo-6s down there.

I posted on another thread that I kinda hate to see turbo 4s and 6s with AWD getting to the level of performance where they are surpassing our street-version RWD V8s - to me that's writing on the wall for a V8 musclecar eulogy. It is still cool to see economical power though... and lots of it too.

I also think guionM is closer to right than wrong about the Mach 1 and its credentials.

muckz - You are right - at Atlanta, Team Mustang turned low 13s with the Mach 1s (one blue and one red one). And it was 95 degrees, humidity like 70%, on street tires, and the engines not well broken-in (like 500+ miles or something). Geez. They did get a 12.97 that day BTW. Point is - numbers are relative. All I'm saying is we need to know under what circumstances the "numbers" are acheived.

RedV stated "...everyone and their mom knows the ls1 fbodies were way underrated; putting out more like 345-355."
Well, I think we have now determined that Ford pulled a wooly with the 390hp rating on the '03 Cobra. Apparently they learned from the '98 Cobra HP fiasco, so do we really think the Mach 1 won't be a little more than the paper number says too? I'm just guessing too... but with all the hype that car is getting, I'll bet it will be at least up to the paper value. http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

Guys, don't forget this... Ford has intentionally built this car for 0-60 and 1380' use. They said so. I expect it would get mauled pretty bad on a road course, F-cars would kill it there no doubt. But on the 1/4, I think it's gonna have the goods. And since the rest of the car is already designed to support drag racing, we all know what a few easy mods are gonna do for it.

Word to the wise... heed guionM's advice - know your opponent and pick your battles wisely. I have some stout Ponies in my stable, but I ain't looking to jump up on one of these at a stoplight too fast. On a road course... maybe.

Sidebar - OMG, can you imagine when somebody throws a Vortech with 9psi on one of these things... 335hp + ? = creamy shorts.
What Cobra? http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

Peace. http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

BTW - Z284ever, .746kw/1hp, so 260/.746 = 348hp

[This message has been edited by ProudPony (edited September 12, 2002).]

that 12 second run on DR's that the Mach1 got, only hit a 105mph trap speed http://web.camaross.com/bb/tongue.gif
think about what most LS1's on DR's can do with a stick shift http://web.camaross.com/bb/tongue.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/tongue.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/tongue.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by guionM:
BTW, if anyone's interested, the Mach1 will have 335 horsepower (325 w/automatic) and 355ft/lbs of torque.

By comparason, F body LS1s have 320hp (max F-body) 335ft/lbs of torque.

In short, boys & girls, the new Mach1 is more than likely FASTER than than our quickest factory Z28, Trans Am, Formula, SS, & WS6 LS1 F-bodies.

Just as predicted.</font>

guionM, Now just a second. We can talk about GM and its future or lack of one but when we start comparing performance thats very different. I drag race very often usually 1-2 times a month. And this is the heads up from the front lines the 99-01 Cobra's usually run (in stock trim) 13.5-13.8's. With ver few hitting a 13.5 out of the box. Now I know the Mach 1 is a solid axle and Ford did some work to the DOHC motor to get torque up from 317 to 335. But don't expect these cars to run 13.0's out of the box. My measly A4 Z28 ran 13.3's in stock trim in hot air. And has run 13.0's @ 107 with just a lid, AF, and cutout. So before we start handing Ford all the credit lets make them earn it. I'll be waiting for any Mach 1 in stock trim to beat a 13.3 and with some mods to beat a 13.0 on stock tires.


------------------
2002 Z28 white/neutral A4 3.23
13.33 @ 104.7 - 650 miles
286rwhp/311rwtq - 1300 miles
STOCK for now!
Gone but not forgotten,
1999 Silver SS 6M #3956
1997 Black Z28 A4 3.23
------------------
Ryan S.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ProudPony:

Guys, don't forget this... Ford has intentionally built this car for 0-60 and 1380' use. But on the 1/4, I think it's gonna have the goods. </font>


A quarter mile is 1320 feet.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 95 Z-28 LT1:

A quarter mile is 1320 feet.

</font>

YUP - BUSTED. http://web.camaross.com/bb/eek.gif
typo - sorry. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

Between my keyboard numbers, calculator numbers, and telephone pad numbers, I get screwed up as to whether 789 is on top or 123 is across top. They are all different it seems - why is that? At least 456 is always in the middle!

[This message has been edited by ProudPony (edited September 12, 2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">where did u here 335 hp in the mach? i herd it was 300 give or take a few hp..</font>

All that they said was that "the Mach 1 will make in excess of 300hp and 300lb-ft of Tq". They never said 300hp/300lb-ft of Tq exactly. Only that it'll be making more then 300. I guess it was awaiting further tested before they announced the actual Hp and Tq figures.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">There was Mach I that, with slicks, got into 12.9. Didn't MM&FF get SS to run 12.9x straight from the factory? So there.</font>

I believe the times you are referring to were achieved with DR's and not slicks. It was also on a humid 90+ degree day. Not really under "ideal" condition. Who know, it may knock down the same 1/4 mile time on street tires on a better/cooler day. I said this car was capable of high 12/low 13's way before MM&FF even tested the Mach 1, but nobody ever listened to me http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Where did you get that figure of 335/355? So far, all that I have heard was that the only performance mods were the hood scoop and the different gears.............so what else would there be to get that number, and to jump 50 ft-lbs?.</font>

This isn't the same 32v motor in the previous cobra. Some things have been changed.

Revised Intake
New Cams (improve low end Hp/tq)
New Heads (improve low end Hp/tq)
addition of Ram-Air hood
performance exhaust manifolds

The 01 Cobra made the advertised 320hp. With these changes/additions, 335 is very likely. Heck, it may be a tad underrated. Who knows. Actual output may very well be 340hp.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Guys, don't forget this... Ford has intentionally built this car for 0-60 and 1380' use. They said so. I expect it would get mauled pretty bad on a road course, F-cars would kill it there no doubt. But on the 1/4, I think it's gonna have the goods. And since the rest of the car is already designed to support drag racing, we all know what a few easy mods are gonna do for it..</font>

Drag setup? sure it's got a live axle and 3.55's (which really doesn't qualify for a 1320 gears), but other then that, the car does have a pretty good suspension setup. I think it's basically the same or close to the Bullit's.

I think it's capable of being a good track car.

1. 13" Brembo dual piston brakes up front, 11.7" Bremebo rotors and single piston caliper out back.
2. new front and rear coil springs with adapted load and rate (lower then the GT)
3. re-valved Tokico struts in front and shocks in rear
4. unique stabilizer bars front and rear
5. added frame rail connectors to stiffen the body

With the added power, improved low end response as well as top end, and suspension setup; i don't see it getting "mauled" by an z28 or an Ls-1 for that matter. At "worst", it may be a second behind. Of course this is just speculation on my behalf since we have no real numbers to work with.

[This message has been edited by RiceEating5.0 (edited September 12, 2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 99SilverSS:
I'll be waiting for any Mach 1 in stock trim to beat a 13.3 and with some mods to beat a 13.0 on stock tires.


</font>

Most people I know with stock '99-'01 Cobras are running high 13's.

Their biggest complaint is that the jury-rigged IRS won't let them launch much above idle.

Without that drawback...and with more torque and gears...I can easily see the Mach1 with manual, hitting low 13s.

just to put my mind at ease i think of it like this, the mach1 is the mustang's special edition, and the camaro's special editions is the berger, eliminator, etc. and i am pretty sure they are faster then the mach1

competition is always good. its about time the mustang got more power..

however, as long as they continue to use that platform with the original suspension points from the 70's, I'd never get a Mustang.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by number77:
just to put my mind at ease i think of it like this, the mach1 is the mustang's special edition, and the camaro's special editions is the berger, eliminator, etc. and i am pretty sure they are faster then the mach1</font>

Not comparable when you see that all of Ford's special Mustangs are being done by Ford themselves. S.S. has a good relationship with the guys from Berger Chevy and they build a good looking Camaro but it's overpriced for what you get IMO.



------------------
Mark

94 Z28, Red, A4, 3:23
Lone Mods--LPE CAI, !Lapeer Dragway.

Best time: 14.658 @ 95.1
with SES light on and Driver off! (First and only time at track)

The F-body will NEVER die.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by number77:
just to put my mind at ease i think of it like this, the mach1 is the mustang's special edition, and the camaro's special editions is the berger, eliminator, etc. and i am pretty sure they are faster then the mach1</font>


Don't put your mind at ease yet.....what about the Cobra?

.....and there is no more F-body.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z28Wilson:
Not comparable when you see that all of Ford's special Mustangs are being done by Ford themselves. S.S. has a good relationship with the guys from Berger Chevy and they build a good looking Camaro but it's overpriced for what you get IMO.
</font>

Z28Wilson, agreed and well put.

Interestingly the lack of "factory specials" was a contributor to Camaro's demise too, IMO. I think it says something when guys from this board know so much about the "factory special" Mustangs like Cobra, Bullitt, Mach 1, Cobra R, etc. That means these cars are getting the model noticed - exactly what they are intended to do. They also stir emotion for the enthusiasts, keeping them interested and active.

The Saleens, Roush's, Steedas, Kenny Bells, etc are still great tuners, as are Lingenfelter, Berger, etc. but they cater to a more affluent crowd (read as wealthier crowd) IMO. A "factory special" car is typically still within reach of the average guy, and that's the bread and butter crowd for these cars.

LT1 F-bodys will always look BETTER then them the 20?? mustangs!! no matter what!! And my z28 will put a punishing on this NEW mustang..so its no concern to me

learn the power of the LT1


~Mike

------------------
1993 Z28:
Dax's SPECIAL
Mint condition INTERIOR!! *Thanks mike i owe you!!*
6 speed,!!T-top!! Conversion,355 C.I.D LT1,Street ported heads,Hooker Longtubes,LT4 *HOT* Cam,Port&Polished LT1 intake,Centerforce DF clutch,Modded air dam/Ram air

Z28
"she's almost awake...Ohh **** run its almost the summer of 2003"

Debuting officialy July 2003!!

Best E/t's: 12.89 @ 106 MPH

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Z284ever:
Most people I know with stock '99-'01 Cobras are running high 13's.

Their biggest complaint is that the jury-rigged IRS won't let them launch much above idle.

Without that drawback...and with more torque and gears...I can easily see the Mach1 with manual, hitting low 13s.</font>

I'm not saying it isn't possible. Because any LS1 car and or 99,01 obviously 03 Cobra has the power and performance potential to hit 12's in stock trim. I'm just saying I wouldn't hold my breath for it to happen. MM&FF will get a Mach 1 to run as well as possible. They will sell a bunch of mags by getting a mach 1 into the low 13's or posibly 12's in stock trim. And just like GMHTP with the 99 Z, and 01 SS, articles they will show just how possible it is with a great driver, track, and conditions. I'm just saying don't look for real world guys to be driving their Mach 1's from the showroom to the track and running 12's. The Mach 1 will run like any LS1 car out there now.



------------------
2002 Z28 white/neutral A4 3.23
13.33 @ 104.7 - 650 miles
286rwhp/311rwtq - 1300 miles
STOCK for now!
Gone but not forgotten,
1999 Silver SS 6M #3956
1997 Black Z28 A4 3.23
------------------
Ryan S.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 99SilverSS:
I'm just saying don't look for real world guys to be driving their Mach 1's from the showroom to the track and running 12's. The Mach 1 will run like any LS1 car out there now.

</font>
Fair enough.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ProudPony:
Z28Wilson, agreed and well put.

Interestingly the lack of "factory specials" was a contributor to Camaro's demise too, IMO. I think it says something when guys from this board know so much about the "factory special" Mustangs like Cobra, Bullitt, Mach 1, Cobra R, etc. That means these cars are getting the model noticed - exactly what they are intended to do. They also stir emotion for the enthusiasts, keeping them interested and active.

</font>

I guess that the SLP Firehawk and Camaro SS didn't qualify as "factory specials" in your expert opinion. I guess cars that were produced every year and were availble from every dealer don't meet your criteria.

Here's a reality check:

The Bullitt was a bad joke - 5hp extra and ugly green paint. Why did Ford delete the foglamps? I guess someone was feeling really cheap.

The $54,000 Cobra R was another goof. This crude heap made the Mercedes CLK55 AMG look like good value. Any one of the 350 "lucky" buyers could have saved 15k by buying a Corvette.


Ford needs to produce better mainstream production cars. I think that the reintroduction of the Cobra name was a big mistake - it allowed Ford to relegate the Mustang GT to the status of a poser car.

The FR500 concept at the 1999 SEMA show might have been the way forward for SVT, or the Mustang in general, but nothing came of it. Intead, Ford gave us the knuckle-dragging 2003 Cobra. If the wasn't enough, we can get our fill of decals and stripes with the new Mach I.

Thankfully, the end of current Mustang is in sight (the new model can't help but better). I wish I could say the same thing about all of the "special edition" rubbish.

I think what Z284ever is getting at is that Ford and SVT put alot more effort into the Mustang recently than GM has put into the F-bodies. I'm not saying that the Cobra or special stangs are better than the f-bodies, just that Ford did a better job at keeping their product more appealing.

For the record, the Bullitt got bigger brakes, and assorted suspension components that made it superior to the base GT setup. The FR500 was not made by SVT, but by Ford Racing divison. And I agree that it would have been a lot more interesting if it had been made.



------------------
-Joshua
1997 Bright Red Trans Am WS6 M6 (http://ws6bird.cz28.com/)
I was thinking dagger. -Steve Nash

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SNEAKY NEIL:
Where did you get that figure of 335/355? So far, all that I have heard was that the only performance mods were the hood scoop and the different gears.............so what else would there be to get that number, and to jump 50 ft-lbs?</font>

Posted power sheet:
http://warnerrobert.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000763

While reading throught the replies, it seems that they are not even sure if that is strait from the horses mouth(F*rd).

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SNEAKY NEIL:
Where did you get that figure of 335/355? So far, all that I have heard was that the only performance mods were the hood scoop and the different gears.............so what else would there be to get that number, and to jump 50 ft-lbs?</font>

Compression ratio has been upped, intake manifolds have been extrude honed, and the cams are off of the 5.4 engine, or roughly, the Maurder engine with the 5.4 Falcon heads.....oh, and then there's the intake.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by redzed:


Ford needs to produce better mainstream production cars. I think that the reintroduction of the Cobra name was a big mistake - it allowed Ford to relegate the Mustang GT to the status of a poser car.

</font>

Redzed, you have alot of well thoought out advise for Ford regarding the Mustang.....I wish that you also had some for GM regarding the Camaro.


Afterall, in MY 2003, Ford will probably sell 200,000 Mustangs and GM will sell 0 F-bodies.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by redzed:

The Bullitt was a bad joke - 5hp extra and ugly green paint. Why did Ford delete the foglamps? I guess someone was feeling really cheap.

5hp extra, plus another 5-10 that isn't in the ratings because Ford got conservative in their ratings after the cobra fiasco. It was also the best handling, best performing Mustang GT ever made. It didn't have foglights, spoilers, and side scoops because they were non-functional anyway and the car was supposed to look sleaker and more understated than other Mustangs. Since the package price was added to the Base GT, it was comparably priced to the Z28 coupe, of which substantially more than 5800 were produced.

The $54,000 Cobra R was another goof. This crude heap made the Mercedes CLK55 AMG look like good value. Any one of the 350 "lucky" buyers could have saved 15k by buying a Corvette.

How was it a goof? They were all sold very quickly and I'm sure ford made money on them. Lots of people may not think it is a great value (including myself), but certainly 350 people did.

Ford needs to produce better mainstream production cars. I think that the reintroduction of the Cobra name was a big mistake - it allowed Ford to relegate the Mustang GT to the status of a poser car.

I wouldn't call the GT a poser car, but I somewhat agree. The cobra holds the GT back. Atleast the powertrain differences are reasonably significant and the SVT volume is limited. What was a worse situation was how GM put the similar performing (to the Z28) SS on the market, did not limit the volume and somehow managed to devalue the Z28 to nothing and at the same time dramatically increase the percieved cost of the V8 F-body (since all you ever saw on lots were loaded SS/WS6 models) which dropped overall sales.

The FR500 concept at the 1999 SEMA show might have been the way forward for SVT, or the Mustang in general, but nothing came of it. Intead, Ford gave us the knuckle-dragging 2003 Cobra. If the wasn't enough, we can get our fill of decals and stripes with the new Mach I.

Not sure how the FR500 was so much better than the Cobra other than a longer wheelbase and some different styling (I honestly can't remember though). The cobra does have a Supercharged DOHC V8, IRS, etc. so what else does it need? Besides being cheaper so more of us can afford one...

And as far as the decals and stripes on the Mach 1, Ford created a special edition car - AND THEN put stripes on it, versus the relatively common GM practice of creating a tape and stripes package and then calling it a limited edition car.

</font>



------------------
Never trust anyone with lots of plants.

2001 Mustang Bullitt GT (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/thill294318MI/welcome2.htm)
2000 Jetta M5
1988 C1500 A3

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by redzed:
I guess that the SLP Firehawk and Camaro SS didn't qualify as "factory specials" in your expert opinion. I guess cars that were produced every year and were availble from every dealer don't meet your criteria.

I wish I could say the same thing about all of the "special edition" rubbish.
</font>

Geez... Anybody seen my arse floating about in this forum somewhere? http://web.camaross.com/bb/eek.gif
Mydol is cheap these days, dude. I'll spring for one for ya! http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif J/K!

redzed, I don't know why you flew off on my comments so bad, but you inadvertantly helped prove my point. You named 4 "variant" Mustangs in your reply, (one of which I didn't name myself - the FR500 showcar never saw any production except parts for FRPP) and only 2 "variant" f-cars (the SLP Firehawk and Camaro SS). This indicates that YOU have been made AWARE of variant Mustangs through press, talk, sight, or chit-chat, thereby making you also aware that Ford is doing things with it. That is hype, and it keeps the car on the "active" list, gaining it attention, desireability, collectability, and sales (IMO). I think it really boils down to marketing and delivery of the model as a whole.

Personally, given the F4 models I see daily, I don't see the SS as anything more special than a GT anymore. (Yes it performs better, but I'm talking "special" or "rare".) As for the SLP... yeah its different and very cool. So was the Turbo T/A and old IROC cars. But the point was not how cool the cars were or how well they even performed - The point was that Ford has MADE the HYPE happen for the Mustang through limited editions and special-run cars. More so than GM has done with the F-cars.

Also, I agree with you about the 2000 Cobra R 100%. But you are way off with the SVT Cobra, Bullitt, and Mach 1 stuff. These cars are different than "production" GT's and are intended to be so. Ford has identified niche markets, and is giving them EXACTLY what they want. Like WERM, Z284ever, and others have said - if they keep selling-out every one they offer, just exactly what are they doing wrong?

BTW - I never claimed to be an "expert" at anything in here. I even opened my statement with indication that what I was saying was MY OPINION. It's even copied right there in your own reply. I understand you are emotional, but jeez... we're adults here.

Flamesuit status - charred and smokin', but still functioning. http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

I'm good with you, pal! Peace. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

OK, here's the scoop on the Falcon engine and the fact it will be in the US next year. It's not going to be on a Mustang, but the GT40.

Though many internal components will be different, the GT40 will have a supercharged DOHC 5.4 V8, from what I understand with the same heads as Falcon's V8.

I was refered to this website and the last paragraph for an official hint on this: http://fordperformancevehicles.com.au/index.asp?link_id=4.54