Let's try to figure out what model year GTO the new one looks like

My pick is the '70. You've got the twin grilles mounted above the bumper, split by the Pontiac emblem, inside the composite headlamps is a mask that is supposed to invoke the feeling of two round headlights on either side (the outboard circles are the directionals), there's the large rectangular slot under the bumper, and finally the lights that flank the lower slot.
The big differences of course, are the use of the composite headlamps, not much of a pointy beak between the grilles, the lower lights on the '70 were square with a chrome "+" in them, and the grilles on the '04 aren't recessed.
But I feel like the '04 GTO is a modern interpretation of the '70 GTO.

A lot of people have been saying that the new one looks too much like a GP. I think the problem here is that Pontiac raped the GTO design themes and stuck them on the GPs. For too many years now. So now, we associate those themes with a GP, not the GTO, where they actually came from.

Here's a link to pics of the '70 GTO for comparison.

http://www.web-cars.com/gto/70gto.shtml



[This message has been edited by HuJass (edited June 22, 2002).]

The thing is the car doesn't look like a GTO at all. I'd like to see it look like the 68 and around there GTO's, like !!TED!!'s concept. The car needs overall better design, hood scoops, spoiler, and hood tach. No Grand Am/Prix design. Imagine when a new owner shows up to a cruise night or a car show with 1. Watch all the BS he's gonna get for the looks of the Grand/GTO among other things.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 22, 2002).]

It does not look much like any GTO. Kudos, Mr. Lutz!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmc:
It does not look much like any GTO. Kudos, Mr. Lutz!</font>

It looks like the '04 Grand AM OOPS, I mean GTO! http://web.camaross.com/bb/redface.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/redface.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/redface.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/redface.gif



------------------
'69 GTO 400 H.O. 350 HP
'96 Bonneville 231 S.D.
'96 Sunfire 2.4L H.O.

LOOK AT THOSE 1/4 MILE TIMES AND MPG RATINGS!!! WOW cars have come a long ways!

We sure complain a lot about our factory 12 second cars that get 25+ MPG! (Albiet Mustang Cobras or GTO's)

*Shakes head in awe*

Peace yall,
Dreamaster

It still looks like a Monaro, and not any GTO I have ever seen.

The best part is where the designers say they didn't want the new GTO to look like a GTO. Thats a good 1, its like O.......K... moron.

------------------
Camaro/Chevrolet crazy F-Body lunatic. :)

"The new GTO, the Grand Prix/Am of musclecars." http://oz.uc.edu/~padgetjr/compare.jpg

Here (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_01.gif) is a comparison pic.

And this (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_02.gif) points out similarities for idiots... there are more as well, like the GTO badge on the driver's side of the grille.

As far as cruise nights and car shows... you think if it just has some scoops and stuff people will respect it more? Thats BS.

Its a nice clean looking car, its going to be rare, the first car imported here from Austrailia, has an LS1, IRS, etc. People will be checking out all sorts of stuff on it, see whats different about it, etc.

I guess some idiots may give some guy crap about it looking like a Grand Prix... I doubt it. If anything, it will get compliments for being a sneaky sleeper. Do 98+ Camaro guys have that kind of problem? "Nice Camaro, looks like a Chrysler Sebring" What about the classic GTO guys, make fun of their cars because they look like a Le Mans or Tempest? http://web.camaross.com/bb/rolleyes.gif LOL! http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

And I'm sure it would attract more attention than a Grand Prix with hood scoops and a spoiler, true? Think about that.

------------------
FormulaV8.com (http://www.FormulaV8.com) · 1994 Formula · A4 · 3.23
13.45 @ 102.5 MPH w/ 1.9 60' | 267 rwhp | 307 tq/lbs | 3535 lbs
"I know for a fact he is NOT an Easter bunny"

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stevil:
Here (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_01.gif) is a comparison pic.

And this (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_02.gif) points out similarities for idiots... there are more as well, like the GTO badge on the driver's side of the grille.

As far as cruise nights and car shows... you think if it just has some scoops and stuff people will respect it more? Thats BS.

Its a nice clean looking car, its going to be rare, the first car imported here from Austrailia, has an LS1, IRS, etc. People will be checking out all sorts of stuff on it, see whats different about it, etc.

I guess some idiots may give some guy crap about it looking like a Grand Prix... I doubt it. If anything, it will get compliments for being a sneaky sleeper. Do 98+ Camaro guys have that kind of problem? "Nice Camaro, looks like a Chrysler Sebring" What about the classic GTO guys, make fun of their cars because they look like a Le Mans or Tempest? http://web.camaross.com/bb/rolleyes.gif LOL! http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

And I'm sure it would attract more attention than a Grand Prix with hood scoops and a spoiler, true? Think about that.</font>

Dude, ROTFL, those 2 cars look nothing alike. If you think so then I just don't know. AND the Camaro guys do get that ALL the time around here, and probably everywhere else too, LOL. The car is plain without much appeal on the ext. looks department. And oh yeah, its a Grand Prix/Am. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif

------------------
Camaro/Chevrolet crazy F-Body lunatic. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

"The new GTO, the Grand Prix/Am of musclecars." http://oz.uc.edu/~padgetjr/compare.jpg




[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 26, 2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IZ28:
Dude, ROTFL, those 2 cars look nothing alike. If you think so then I just don't know.</font>

True, they don't look EXACTLY the same, its been 30 years, wtf do ya expect? Compare a 1967 Camaro to a 2002 Camaro, you'd probably say the same thing!

Oh and check this stuff out...

65 GTO and Tempest (http://www.pontiacserver.com/65lmgtoad.html)
65 Bonneville (http://www.pontiacserver.com/65bonad.html)
65 Catalina (http://www.pontiacserver.com/65catad.html)
65 Grand Prix (http://www.pontiacserver.com/66gp_ad.html)

OMG!?! They all look the same?!?

http://web.camaross.com/bb/tongue.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stevil:
[B
Its a nice clean looking car, its going to be rare, the first car imported here from Austrailia, has an LS1, IRS, etc. People will be checking out all sorts of stuff on it, see whats different about it, etc.

[/B]</font>

Altho I dont think the new GTO looks anything like any previous models, I do agree with this part of your post. The cool "Australia does an American muscle car that we cant do" factor alone would have sold 20,000 copies. (There have been other made in Ozzy cars here before, like the old Capri and the current Diamonte)

Not to mention that GM suddenly wont have 45,000 per year F bodys available for sale.

This car is a no brainer sellout easily, and it would not have mattered on bit what it was called.

Pimping the GTO name needlessly to sell the cars was just a bad idea. Call it GTA, GTB, GTC, GTD, GTE, GTS, GTZ, whatever. The GTO name should have been saved for a true retro niche car that looked the part.




[This message has been edited by Reno Leigh (edited June 26, 2002).]

Definetly. And they can still do that and make it look right, thats all we're saying!! GTA wouldn't be good either. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif The car is back for the 1st time in how many years?? It should have some cues from them.

[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 26, 2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Reno Leigh:
This car is a no brainer sellout easily, and it would not have mattered on bit what it was called.

Pimping the GTO name needlessly to sell the cars was just a bad idea. Call it GTA, GTB, GTC, GTD, GTE, GTS, GTZ, whatever. The GTO name should have been saved for a true retro niche car that looked the part. </font>

http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gifHAVE MERCY! This guy is so accurate he could hit Jupiter with a spitball from a straw! http://web.camaross.com/bb/eek.gif

Reno - awesome post http://web.camaross.com/bb/wink.gif So simple a concept, so few words. Who can't understand this? http://web.camaross.com/bb/tongue.gif

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Reno Leigh:
[B] The GTO name should have been saved for a true retro niche car that looked the part.

</font>
While I am no fan of retro... if GM is ever to do a true retro car, I agree.

GTO has been gone so long, that's it's kind of hard to accept something that has NO retro to it as a GTO...

I am strongly against a retro Camaro, but if GM were to do a retro design, the GTO name would have been a good one to use.

(NOTE: I am not saying they should have dumoed mega-bucks into the Monaro to make it look retro)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stevil:
[Bthis (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_02.gif) points out similarities for idiots... there are more as well, like the GTO badge on the driver's side of the grille.

[/B]</font>

ROTFLMAO!!!!! Please tell me your being sarcastic here. Please! Every car has fog lights, head lights, some have 1/4 windows, and anyone can glue a GTO badge on a car. Why not put a Yugo in your pic and compare these things you pointed out. I think you'll find the similarities between those cars also.

I don't think this car looks like any year GTO. And I don't think it was supposed to either. Its a Monaro and it looks like one. They did not even take the time to restyle the headlights. If they wanted to make it look like a 70 GTO then they should have made the headlights into 2 large round bulbs instead of 3 counting turn signal/DRL light. They could've put the turn signal lights in the grille like a 66-67 GTO. They should have made a RAM AIR hood of any year GTO, 65-67, 70, 71-72, all would've looked killer. They should've spread the taillights out across the rear deck and put lines in it like the 65, 66, 67, or 68-72. Just some idea's. However after all the GTO was a hopped up LeMans, totay it will seem the GTO is a hopped up Grand Prix.

------------------
2002 Z28 white/neutral A4 3.23
13.33 @ 104.7 - 650 miles
286rwhp/311rwtq - 1300 miles
STOCK for now!
Gone but not forgotten,
1999 Silver SS 6M #3956
1997 Black Z28 A4 3.23
------------------
Ryan S.

It doesn't necessarily look like any older GTO, but it has themes and cues, albeit modernized, from the '70.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stevil:
Here (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_01.gif) is a comparison pic.

And this (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_02.gif) points out similarities for idiots... there are more as well, like the GTO badge on the driver's side of the grille.

As far as cruise nights and car shows... you think if it just has some scoops and stuff people will respect it more? Thats BS.

Its a nice clean looking car, its going to be rare, the first car imported here from Austrailia, has an LS1, IRS, etc. People will be checking out all sorts of stuff on it, see whats different about it, etc.

I guess some idiots may give some guy crap about it looking like a Grand Prix... I doubt it. If anything, it will get compliments for being a sneaky sleeper. Do 98+ Camaro guys have that kind of problem? "Nice Camaro, looks like a Chrysler Sebring" What about the classic GTO guys, make fun of their cars because they look like a Le Mans or Tempest? http://web.camaross.com/bb/rolleyes.gif LOL! http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

And I'm sure it would attract more attention than a Grand Prix with hood scoops and a spoiler, true? Think about that.

</font>

I agree. The similarities are there. When I first saw the picture of the new GTO I was thinking of the 1970. You're in denial if you say otherwise.

------------------
-Joshua
1997 Bright Red T/A WS6 M6 (http://ws6bird.cz28.com/)
I was thinking dagger. -Steve Nash

I just thought about the fact that the Monaro has no side marker lamps, aside from what's built into the multi-lamp that wraps around all 4 corners. Is this going to be legal in the States? I can't say I've seen too many late models w/o side markers, at least in the rear.

It was stupid then as it will be stupid now to be putting a 3 name bages on very similar cars.

------------------

1991 Z/28 350TPI red ext. w/gray int.
1973 Z/28(project car)

Another quote from www.goauto.com.au (http://www.goauto.com.au)

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The entire GTO engineering program is believed to cost about $30 million, a figure Mr Hyde refused to confirm or deny. This is more expensive than engineering the Monaro itself, believed to be due to the extensive amount of physical crash testing that has to be performed to comply with US regulations.</font>

Those looking for a complete redesign better go back to GM and tell them to spend more money on the project ... Oh, and I'm not sure about the "more expensive than Monaro" comment, as I thought it was a $30 million project itself ...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Reno Leigh:
Pimping the GTO name needlessly to sell the cars was just a bad idea.</font>

Exactly.....same arguement we have had numerous times over GM prostitution of the SS moniker.

Let's say this one last time......We DON'T 'hate' the car....it appears to be a GREAT car...if I didn't already own a GTP, I'd think real hard about one...it's just WTF did the have to call it a GTO without making it LOOK like a GTO?? Much less making it look SO much like a GP.

You honestly can't be happy about GM's slapping historic monikers on every new model just to try and sell a few more of them..........they damned near killed the GTO legacy in the late 70's w/ the Nova derivative.....are they afraid people wouldn't buy them otherwise?? That's just silly.

I've already threatened RP with midnite attacks on car dealer lots to remove the badges on ANY car that uses the Camaro's name that isn't true to it's heritage!! (Of course he said he'd help me...LOL!)

Enough with the personal attacks guys, some of us are old enough to have been around when these cars made their mark.....it STILL hurts to see their names being prostituted.



[This message has been edited by Doug Harden, Pres CICC (edited June 26, 2002).]

Doug,
The thing is, most of us don't feel the name is being prostituted. And a lot of us were around when GTOs were originally roaming the streets.
And for the GTO name to be prostituted, it would have had to be slapped on a V-6, FWD, auto-only car. But it wasn't.

As I said, IF they are calling it a GTO then give me more than a warmed over rendition of a front fascia that is already five years old. Let's face it......the ONLY reason they are calling it a GTO is for instant name recognition, immediate interest and a great basis for the advertising program.......for a car that we (stateside) know very little about. The GTO was NEVER Pontiac's "halo" car......why now? Because it's cheap & easy....and 'safe'.

I, for one, would have been over-joyed if they called it a GTO and it LOOKED like the GTO they are trying to resurrect from our memories....and sell us on. Again, I think it's going to be a GREAT car....just wished GM would follow through every once in a while. Also, I HATE "corporate image" styling! Let a car have an identity too! These aren't t-shirts...I don't want to only choose between small (Grand Am) medium (Grand Prix) and large (GTO).

I truly do wish Pontiac all the luck in the world and hope they sell a ton of these.....it only proves there is a market for the Camaro when it returns....I just hope that this little exercise doesn't embolden GM to build us a great Camaro but wrap it in a plain brown wrapper......

Just for fun, will someone tell me which classic Camaro the 4th gen looks like? I dont see any 67-69 in the 02. If the GTO had stayed in production, I think it would have evolved into something very close to the new one.

[This message has been edited by IMPALA64 (edited June 27, 2002).]

And the 4th Gen's looks got it where??

Does that then imply that the 4th gen would have been sucessful if it looked like the first gen?

I think if the 4th looked like anything else it probably would have been better. http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif They just didn't look right and any cues they did have didn't look right.

I know that a car doesn't always need obvious cues to look nice. But, we are talking about a returning GTO here, not just any car. I do not like the Grand GTO's front design pretty much at all. Its too plain and looks too much like the Grand Prix/Am. That makes another car that is almost impossible to tell apart when there is 2 already. What the GTO has to do with a Grand Prix/Am I'll never know. And yes, scoops, spoiler, hood tach, and even stripes and stuff would be cooler/better. You know, things that are GTO-like. It is supposed to be a musclecar, some lines would be nice also instead of that completly rounded look. IMO the car should be the best it can be, especially with how they are going about it, and it looking like that is not the best it can be IMO. Maybe there will be a 40th Anniversary Edition. (there should be anyway) And maybe a non Grand Prix/Am looking front will be an option LOL. http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif They can do better than that and they should before it is realeased.

------------------
Camaro/Chevrolet crazy F-Body lunatic. http://web.camaross.com/bb/smile.gif

"The new GTO, the Grand Prix/Am of musclecars." http://oz.uc.edu/~padgetjr/compare.jpg



[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited June 27, 2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by IMPALA64:
Just for fun, will someone tell me which classic Camaro the 4th gen looks like? I dont see any 67-69 in the 02. If the GTO had stayed in production, I think it would have evolved into something very close to the new one.

[This message has been edited by IMPALA64 (edited June 27, 2002).]</font>

Actually this is easy......take a look at the RS split bumper early 70's Camaro.......notice the headlights placed above the grill...the single protruding grille area.....even the foglights placed to the outside (even though this was on the non split-bumpered cars).....I made a morphing image when the LS1 cars first came out...it was quite telling..........not to mention the long hood, sloping rear glass, near vertical B pillar, duck bill rear spoiler (current SS), etc................. http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by Doug Harden, Pres CICC (edited June 27, 2002).]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by stevil:
Here (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_01.gif) is a comparison pic.

And this (http://stevil.easy48.com/images/temp/gto_02.gif) points out similarities for idiots... there are more as well, like the GTO badge on the driver's side of the grille.

As far as cruise nights and car shows... you think if it just has some scoops and stuff people will respect it more? Thats BS.

Its a nice clean looking car, its going to be rare, the first car imported here from Austrailia, has an LS1, IRS, etc. People will be checking out all sorts of stuff on it, see whats different about it, etc.

I guess some idiots may give some guy crap about it looking like a Grand Prix... I doubt it. If anything, it will get compliments for being a sneaky sleeper. Do 98+ Camaro guys have that kind of problem? "Nice Camaro, looks like a Chrysler Sebring" What about the classic GTO guys, make fun of their cars because they look like a Le Mans or Tempest? http://web.camaross.com/bb/rolleyes.gif LOL! http://web.camaross.com/bb/biggrin.gif

And I'm sure it would attract more attention than a Grand Prix with hood scoops and a spoiler, true? Think about that.

</font>

Small correction for those "Idiots" out there, those are NOT fog lights on the '70. No GTO came with fog lights.

------------------
'69 GTO 400 H.O. 350 HP
'96 Bonneville 231 S.D.
'96 Sunfire 2.4L H.O.

As I've been reading & posting on this GTO topic, I start to wonder: How many of the people who are posting are #1) even old enough to remember musclecars [I don't count in that category myself] or #2) Have ever driven or rode in a musclecar? What about the GTO? Anybody owned/driven/rode in a GTO?

Does anyone posting really know about the magic of a musclecar, what it's like to drive a car w/ 350+HP and NO little convienences like power steering, power brakes, NO disc brakes up front [that's a REAL challenge], NO ABS to help with driving boo-boo's, NO A/C, NO P/W, P/L, T-tops, No FM radios, etc. etc.

What it feels like to stomp the pedal down at 55 and have the back end break LOOSE on you? To get 7 MPG? [not good]. To feel the body twist when you get on it at the light? The exaust note, engine sound, the sound of MONSTER back barrels opening up? Or TWO MORE CARBURATORS opening up when you stomp on it?

And the GTO is the one to thank for all of that [not LITERALLY, but it did start a massive movement].

I really don't think that the people posting have a good feel, or passion, for what a musclecar is all about.



------------------
'69 GTO 400 H.O. 350 HP
'96 Bonneville 231 S.D.
'96 Sunfire 2.4L H.O.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GOATCRAZY:
As I've been reading & posting on this GTO topic, I start to wonder: How many of the people who are posting are #1) even old enough to remember musclecars [I don't count in that category myself] or #2) Have ever driven or rode in a musclecar? What about the GTO? Anybody owned/driven/rode in a GTO?
</font>

I dont have any GTOs or Judges now due to my current economic situation, but I have had my share in the past, and will have them again in the future.

I rode in my fist GTO when I was 8 years old, a 68 that belonged to a neighbor. It was a homely pepper green car but it still was a beautiful car cuz of the classic lines, and could smoke those red line tires at will.

My first Judge ride was the next year when I was nine. My uncles gf got one of the first 69 Judges, of course they were all Carousel red then, and it was a 4 speed RAIII. That car left quite an impression on my young brain.

The next year that same girl got a 70 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed, white with blue stripes and a blue interior. That was my first ride in an F body. That car left a deep impression also. I especially remember thinking that shaker hood was the coolest freakin thing I had ever seen.