Lost my PCM again using TunerCat....

Well, once again, I lost my PCM again using TunerCat. I was again trying the windows based version. I started with trying reads. I must have made 10 to 15 attempts at reads and all ended with the infamous "incorrect message sent" error. That was trying both the old and new versions of Cat. Then, I disconnected everything and rebooted and retried again. All of a sudden, it started reading. I made 3 successful attempts reading using the windows version. I then immediatly went for a program. I didn't disconnect or touch anything between my good read attempts and my program attempt. It estabilished communication with the PCM, erased my flash, started programming, then immediatly errored for incorrect message sent. I had my one retry, but it errored again leaving me with a dead PCM yet again. This is what I have confirmed. It is NOT a voltage issue and pulling fan relays or ABS relay will not work. I tried that during my unsuccessful read attemps and none of that did the trick. Even after hooking up jumpers and getting well above 12 volts, it still didn't read. This is too weird considering the success I had the night before and again, I am doing everything exactly the same way. I have already contacted Tunercat and am waiting for a reply from them and a course of action. And yes blackcamaro, when this PCM goes out, I will send AKMcables my current program to put back in it when it's repaired so I can at least put that back in my car and be back to normal since next time around I will be trying on my backup PCM. I just cant use that one now because it doesn't have a program that will work with my current mods. Back to the drawing board and I'll keep everyone posted on whats going on. For now though, the Camaro sits cold and dead in my garage.

Ken R. 95Z

Unfortunately, this is a very common thing. Anytime you do a program, you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting an error and frying your PCM. There really is no solution to this problem short of buying a Tech2 or Tech1 tool to do your programming (an expensive solution at best). But, if you can do it yourself or have someone do it for you, desolder you flash chips and get a Pocket Programmer 2 for $150. Then, when you fry your PCM, you can simply pull out your PCM, open it, pop out the flash chips, reprogram the hex file into the chips, and pop them back in. This is about the only good solution for the problem. I can't find the PP2 website, so someone else post it if you have it please.

Thanks for the info. Problem is that for me for some reason, i've only had a 2 in 2 chance of frying the PCM. I'd be more then happy to get a 1 in 10 chance in that case. Yes, i'd like to reprogram the chips in the PCM myself. I'm perfectly capable myself. So if someone here knows where I can get the programmer to do that, please let me know. Doom, where would I find the Hex to do that cause I may know someone that already has a burner. Thanks.

Ken R. 95Z

If you desolder the chips and put in a ZIF socket then you can swap out the chips easily if they fry. I have an emp10 I use for programming (from needhams).

As for 1 in 10 chance - it should be much better than that if everything is correct. I have over 400 flash files on my laptop (each representing another flash) - 100 on my car alone, and no fried pcm's.

If you have a MSD or other ignition box remove that. If you still have problems I would re-run the signal and ground wire for data transfer from the pcm pin to the aldl port (and probably use a shielded wire). If you still have problems then put together a benchtop programmer - if there are still issues then it is either your cable, pcm, or laptop.


Chris

hence why i love the 93's, removable chips. hehe

for programming stuff, visit thirdgen.org, they have a nice board there regarding chip burning, etc.

good god...you have to be joking!

3 rules to programming..learn them, live by them:
1. ALWAYS run CATS it in DOS
2. ALWAYS read the pcm first..1 is all you need.
3. ALWAYS make sure you have power save options off or hit space bar periodically thru the process.

Originally posted by turbo_Z
1. ALWAYS run CATS it in DOS


Hmm...I've been using the windows flash program and haven't had a problem and I've probably flashed about 100 files. :p

Turbo Z, I followed your 3 rules exactly, but I still lost the PCM. Dan K, since your using the windows version, can I ask what type of computer you have (processor, RAM, windows version ect...). Just curious. Also, where did you get your cable to hook up to your computer? Thanks.

Ken R. 95Z

Chris, why would I remove my MSD to program? Or i'm assuming you might mean kill the power to it or something. I just don't understand why you would do that when your not programming while the car is running? Thanks.

Ken R 95Z

I'm wondering if this all has one simple fix that we're not thinking of...

Anyway, what is involved in getting the "benchtop" programmer. Does that mean you have to physically remove the PCM from the car and buy a different harness? When Andrew reburns the PCM... what exactly does he do? I'd love for him to view these boards and help us out since he seems to know more about it than we do :).

You remove the MSD (unhook it - at least from power) since it has been known to cause interference. Probably a longshot, but can onlly help.


A benchtop programmer requires removing your pcm - it hooks up the data and signal ground wire, as well as a few required grounds and power sources - you can then program directly.


Andrew's repair consists of de-soldering the chip, soldering in a ZIF socket, and putting in a new chip. With a ZIF socket you can then change chips out without and soldering.


Chris

Originally posted by roguedriver
Dan K, since your using the windows version, can I ask what type of computer you have (processor, RAM, windows version ect...). Just curious. Also, where did you get your cable to hook up to your computer? Thanks.

Ken R. 95Z

Computer is a Compaq Presario 700Z laptop, AMD Athlon 1000, 256 MB RAM, windows XP, and the cable's from Andrew.

When we were initially trying to program cars (I have 5 friends cars that I do), we were using the DOS flash program on a different computer and kept getting errors trying to read. After probably 25 tries I finally got 1 good read and thought no way was I even going to try this. Downloaded the windows flash on my computer and I've never had a problem. :)

I know it's already been said, but I was suppose to add after the desoldering part that you need to socket the PCM so you can just pull the chips out when they get corrupted. As for the hex file, I'm know Andrew has one for every year, as well as the guys over at PCMforless.com I'm sure. I doubt either would have a problem sending you the stock hex for your car. Sometimes I type too fast for myself and skip what I was thinking. Anyways, almost any EEPROM programmer will work for the 40 pin flash chips in our PCMs, but to make sure check if it will work on AN28F512 chip (sometimes abbreviated AN28F). Chris B mentioned the EMP10, I've mentioned the Pocket Programmer 2, there are a ton of others out there of varying price. As for the simple fix, I've never seen one aside from socketing the PCM so you can easily remove the chips and reprogram them. The 1 in 10 chance is something I read as I was going over technical info on the LT1 PCM and I'm pretty sure its accurate. Remember, you might not have any problems, but as you can see a number of other people (including myself), have had these problems multiple times. Your one of the lucky ones, fortunately for you! :) Some people have good luck with the WIN FLASH program (mostly those with WIN NT based platforms like NT or 2000) while others have luck with the DOS FLASH program (mostly those who use WIN9x platforms like 95 or 98). It would have been nice for GM to have built in an automatic flash dump to erase the PCM and make it able to be reprogrammed from the ALDL port, but I doubt they intended us to be playing with the PCM like this. Just invest in an EEPROM programmer, have Andrew or someone else socket your PCM, and then you can program away with no worries about fried PCMs.

I know the feeling, I've been there.

The problem I had with programming was that for some reason, I could program my car with no problems, but I burned my brothers PCM twice. I found out that I could plug my laptop up to a dropcord, and have no problems reading or programming with tunercat. Eventhough I had all my powersaving modes off, It still didn't matter, I had to have a laptop running with an external power source instead of it's battery.

This is prob. not your problem, but just for saftey, try it. It d&ymn sure can't hurt anything.

Good luck

And I'd love to have some of those easy to remove chips that you all are talking about.

D Moss

if you guys get security codes..what i have done is just keep pulling the PCM fuse to reset it. sometimes i have continual problems with errors until i reset the computer.

only other solution i can offer is get a different computer. my desktop i use at school(on now) has NEVER messed up. but an old laptop i use does all the time or did but fixed now with the updated version of CATS. a friend of mine tried to use his brand new DELL laptop...never could get it to work. another friend tried his new sony laptop...said my cable was bad and wouldnt work. so you just need to get the right equipment it seems.

I dont know that Andrew has the time or desire to resocket PCMs anymore, but you'd sure be a candidate. I wonder if its electrical, the laptop, cable or what, strange.

I almost lost mine in a split second when on battery mode apperantly there was a 2 minute power save mode in the BIOS setup (CMOS chip store). I got lucky, 400ms supposedly will nuke the PCM if I remember the number correctly.

I have a question about the flash chips. If i socket my pcm could i just go out and buy new chips instead of buying a $150 dollar programmer that i may never use? Would someone be able to supply me with a couple spare chips i could just throw in? Other than that i think i will be socketing my pcm before i attempt to reflash it.

K, it's obvious that there's some misunderstanding on what the chips are and what the sockets are. You already have the chips in your PCM. All your doing when you socket your PCM is remove the chips from the board by desoldering, solder the sockets to the old connections, then put the chips in the sockets. You can buy more chips if you want, but if you find a place to buy them (please tell me if you do, I've had no luck finding one) they do not come with the software programmed into them. You need to program the chips yourself (like when you corrupt them with the Tunercat programmer) with the EEPROM programmer. If you fried your PCM, socketing won't do you any good without the EEPROM programmer. If you plan on doing programming and are worried about frying your PCM, socketing won't do you much good without either spare programmed chips or an EEPROM programmer. As far as I know right now, there is nowhere that you can get the chips. So about your only option is to get an programmer, socket the PCM, and keep reusing the original flash chips.

Doom, thanks a lot for clearing that all up for me. I was lost for a little bit. So basicly it is still a good idea and am going to pursue it further when i get back home where my car is this spring. Sounds like a nice backup plan just in case tunercat fails.

I've been studying this PCM business for a few months and just realized I'm still only a newbie ;)

So, if I were to get the PCM socketed, and I "fried" a chip with TunerCat, would the EEPROM programmer be able to fix it? Or is the chip really garbage? And also, if I were to get a spare PCM from a junkyard could those chips serve as backup chips, say if I were programming at the track and ran into an error, I'd have a backup chip to put in?

When you desolder the chip from the PCM, how is the chip still good to be used in a socket, wouldnt the solder be balled up on it making it unable to be "pushed" in to the socket???

One last thing... are there any sites for the EEPROM Programmer? Can you use TunerCat with it, just get a different definition file or something? (Is it hardware or software)

Sure, no prob 94-3.4, always glad to help out a fellow Camaro (or Firebird) owner. ablackcamaro, if you "fry" the PCM, that doesn't mean that the chips are bad. The chips are fine. It's the software on the chips that is corrupted or not even there. For example, when you program the PCM using the Tunercat flash program, it first erases the old file on the chips, then proceeds to write the new file. If it erases the old file, but then an error occurs, you have nothing on the chips. The PCM won't work, and because of the way it was designed, there is no way to reset the chips through the ALDL port or the PCM itself. Same thing if you are in the middle of the program and it fails. Only part of the file is there, and the PCM is "stuck" and cannot be used. This is how the PCM flash chips become corrupted (the actual term for when you "fry" the PCM). The corrupted chips can be overwritten by an EEPROM programmer, simply because it has the necessary equipment that the PCM does not to fully format the chips and then write a hex file directly to the chips. The PCM can only delete a full file, not a corrupted chip. If you want, you could get some chips out of some junkyard PCMs, but you don't need any extra chips. The chips in your PCM are just fine. As for the desoldering, only a real amateur would do that bad of a soldering job. If you have't soldered anything before, I wouldn't make desoldering your first test of your skills. Practice a bit first, ask someone to help you, or have it done for you by someone else. There are a number of different EEPROM programmers out there, from the Pocket Programmer to the EMP10 Chris B mentioned. As long as it will work with AN28F512 chips, it'll work for you. I think the Pocket Programmer is the cheapest, at about $150, and unfortunately I don't have the website anymore. I think you can find it through yahoo if you type it in. An EEPROM programmer is hardware, you hook it to your computer (usually through the serial or parallel port) and then you can do your direct flash chip programming.

If you got to www.tunercat.com and click on links there is a section for eeprom programmers and other info, all the links you need are right there. There is a link for a pocket programmer and several others along with the place to get the zif sockets from. It is kind a funny, that place, can't remember the name is like 15 minutes from me.

I'm starting to get all of this info in (finally hehe...) now you guys say Andrew doesn't like to socket the PCM's anymore? And you would upload the same *.bin file to the chip through the eeprom programmer as you would through tunercat's flash upload program, right?

Originally posted by ablackcamaro
And you would upload the same *.bin file to the chip through the eeprom programmer as you would through tunercat's flash upload program, right?

That's the way I understand it. :)
Should basically be like programming a 93 LT1.

Bench programming...is this the same as the flashing we're all doing with the ALDL port, only the PCM isn't in the car? Meaning, are the same errors of frying the PCM (I don't like that term...but it's the one everybody knows) possible while doing bench programming? I'd think they are, but that they're much less likely to occur as there is nothing to go wrong, no accessories draining power, and with a power supply, the PCM can be plugged into the wall--no battery to drain. So as long as you're not writing to a bench programmer in a thunder and lightning storm, it seems much safer to do, this correct?

Originally posted by Dan K
That's the way I understand it.
Should basically be like programming a 93 LT1.

Actually, this isn't correct. What you need to do is have the original hex file, not a bin file. The information stored in the PCM is all hexadecimal code, but what the Tunercat reader program does is translate that hex code into the information you see in the Tunercat tuner so most people can easily tune their car. If you had a hex editor and knew what all the hex data ment, you can tune your car simply by entering new hex code and then uploading it to your PCM. But most people that work on cars don't know hex code (I know some, it can be very confusing if you don't have a direct readout of every single parameter). Basically, the bin file is a translated hex file. When you modify the information in the bin file, then upload it by the ALDL port through Tunercats programmer program, the programmer translates the bin file information into hex information and encodes it to the chip. I'm sure Andrew and PCMforless.com has the original hex files, if you email them and ask them for your years hex file, I'm sure they'd send it to you.

Interesting.
OK...so then tell me why I can take a blank chip for a 93 and load a bin file into my pocket programmer and program a chip and the car will run. That chip has no hex file programmed into it. It has no idea what a hex file is. It's blank. The programmer doesn't care what you're loading into it...it just wants the buffer to have some sort of a file in it so that it can "burn" it into the chip.
:confused:

Originally posted by ablackcamaro
When you desolder the chip from the PCM, how is the chip still good to be used in a socket, wouldnt the solder be balled up on it making it unable to be "pushed" in to the socket???

There is no socket, but when you desolder something, you suck or wick the solder away anyway. There is no socket unless you socket the PCM which is what Andrew USED to be able to do when he had more time. From there, you were supplied with multiple new chips in case you fried one.

If you can erase the EEPROM yourself I think you can reflash it yourself, but I could be mistaken, and maybe you need an EEPROM programmer. Thats why I said TALK TO ANDREW, if you are not trying already please do, he will know how to guide you along.

Originally posted by Dan K
Interesting.
OK...so then tell me why I can take a blank chip for a 93 and load a bin file into my pocket programmer and program a chip and the car will run. That chip has no hex file programmed into it. It has no idea what a hex file is. It's blank. The programmer doesn't care what you're loading into it...it just wants the buffer to have some sort of a file in it so that it can "burn" it into the chip.
:confused:

You are correct, but only on the 93. The 94-95 OBD1 FLASH PCM is entirely different from the OBD1 EPROM PCM. It's like comparing apples to oranges. FLASH chips operate on the hex code, rather than the binary information that EPROM chips operate on. Your correct in that the programmer does not care in what it uploads. You could actually upload a Word file to the FLASH or EPROM chips and it would take it. However, the PCM itself would not accept the information, and it would do essentially nothing. I'm not quite that knowledgeable on the old EPROM systems (yet, I'm in the process of learning), but I know they have a number of differences than the FLASH OBD1 PCMs

Originally posted by DOOM Master
FLASH chips operate on the hex code, rather than the binary information that EPROM chips operate on.

Ah....that answers my question.
Thanks! :)

hey yall,

Check this **** out. I got this letter from TUNER CAT via e-mail.

Dear C.A.T.S. Customer,

If you have recently updated to Version 1.98 of the Tuner program and are using the Tuner program in conjunction with the $EE ECM Definition File to program your PCM, please update to version 1.99 as soon as possible.

Version 1.98 has a bug in it that can result in your PCM not functioning properly. With version 1.98, if you make a change to the calibration and then immediately program your PCM without first saving the modified calibration file, an incorrect checksum will be programmed into the PCM. (The checksums are corrected for calibration changes when the calibration file is saved to disk.)This will prevent the PCM from operating properly.

The programming process will complete as normal without any error messages but the PCM will not function correctly after programming. You car will either not start or will start and immediately stall. The service light will flash and your fans will run.

To restore the PCM to normal operation, reprogram it with a valid calibration file (with the correct checksum). To create a valid calibration from version 1.98, either save any calibration changes to disk before programming your PCM or load a calibration file into the Tuner program and program the PCM with the loaded calibration file without making any changes to the loaded calibration.

You can download the update from version 1.98 to 1.99 from our web site at:

http://www.tunercat.com/software/tuner/update199.zip

To install the update, unzip the new wintuner.exe file that you downloaded and place the new file into your Tuner subdirectory, over-writing the old file.

This notice does not apply to the WinFlash program or the older DOS FLASH utilities.

We apologize for any inconvenience.


Best Regards,

TC



I HOPE THIS HELPS YOU!!!

David Moss

While looking at the EMP-10 it says it will work with the N28F512, is this the same as our AN28F512 chips? I can't find the AN28F512 anywhere on the device list. http://www.needhams.com/emp-10ddevs.html#intel

Rodrigues, Yes, the N28F512 is the AN28F512. I just got my EMP-10 a week ago and already programmed my Flash chips. It works great. If your going this route and you have already socketed your PCM and haven't lost it yet, when you get the EMP-10, pop each flash chip out, put it in your programmer and do a read on the flash chips and then save each one to a file. There .bin files. That way, if you ever lose one, you can reprogram the .bin file right back onto the flash chips and your good to go. Just remember if you don't already know already. Each side of your PCM is different. So when you copy your chips, make sure they go back in the same board and name your .bin files different. I believe one chip is an "E" and the other is a "T". You will also need a PLCC socket adapter to program the chips in the emp-10. Its a 32pin to 32pin PLCC adapter for use with chips above 1K. Needhams has them for about $95 dollars I think, but you can surf the web and find them cheaper. Cheapest i've found was about $75. Good luck.

It doesnt come with a PLCC adapter?!

Nope. It only comes with the Family module to program those flash chips, but not the adapter to stick the chips in. I'm sure some of the more expensive programmers come with the adapter or acutally accept those chips in the programmer, but the EMP-10 doesn't. Thats probably why it's the cheapest also, even though it still isn't cheap. It's a bummer, but guess you gotta do what you gotta do. I got my programmer brand new off Ebay for $175 and the adapter cost me another $80. So for $255 i'm fixing my own chips. I've lost quiet a few PCM's due to Tunercat issues and believe me, the programmer is well worth it now that I can do the fix myself vs sending the PCM out over and over. Hope that helps.
Ken R. 95Z

Where do you guys buy the solder in 32 pin zif sockets?!?!?!

Good thing I found this thread. Now I gotta go socket my PCM and I should be good to go. I've had my PP2 for a couple of years now since I used to tune TPI Cars. Good thing I didn't get rid of when I got rid of the TPI. :D

Would you guys buy spare chips if I sold them for $15 each? I found a source in Germany but the shipping would kill me. Wondering how many 28F512 chips I should order.

Rodrigues, I would consider buying maybe a pair just to have as a back up. Have you been looking for a source for those chips? They are the intel chips, correct? I've read that any other brand doesn't seem to work even though their replacements for the intel chip. I kinda breezed through the internet looking at a few sites for the chips, but didn't put a lot of time into looking since I have a backup PCM already, so if I get into trouble, i'm not dead in the water. But another set of chips would be nice. Let me know.
Ken R. 95Z

I dont want to hyjack this but are the same problems had when using LT-1 edit? Is it just tunnercat?

This problem can occur with using either TC or with LT1 Edit. For those using TC you need to download their latest version update to version 1.99. There are some bug issues with using it with the EE deifnition which is our PCMs.

On another note, does anyone out there have a good running 396 or 383 with a CC306 cam in a 94/95 car? I would like to see a bin file from one you that would care to send me one.

Thanks in advance.

Roguedriver, seeing how you have socketed your PCM and have replaced the flash chips. Do you have the exact number from the chip? I am asking because there are several versions of this chip from Intel. There are 120, 150 and 200nS speeds rated at 0 - 70c temperatures and then there are the same speeds but rated at -40 to +85c ratings.

Here are the Intel numbers:

0 - 70 temperature ratings:
N28F512-120
N28F512-150
N28F512-200

-40 - 85 temperature ratings:
TN28F512-120
TN28F512-200

I really don't think that it matters what speed we use in the PCMs as there is nothing in that PCM that will even require a 200nS rating. However the temperature rating maybe a factor seeing how in some areas we could see temperatures dipping into the lower temperatures. And I can see the added benefit of a chip to operate at the higher rated temperatures given where the PCM is mounted in the engine compartment. I work on several Corvette PCMs but they for some reason have 2 of these flash chips, does the F body have the same 2 Chips or just one?

Just my two bits worth.

tjwong, I wasn't even aware that the N28F512 had different temp ratings. I don't believe the temp number is printed on the chip itself. I just don't remember. I'd have to look. All I don know is that the chip in the LT1 PCM's is the AN28F512. But I believe all the N28F512's can be programmed the same. In the EMP-10 programmers device list, I think it only lists the N28F512 so I would imagine the first letter (weather it be a T or an A) wouldn't matter. And yes, all the LT1 PCM's have 2 flash chips (one on each board) like the Corvettes. I think the LS1's are the same way. Hope that helps you out.

Ken R. 95Z

So when one "Fries" his PCM due to whatever programming problem, do you have to replace both flash chips? And I have heard that there is some kind of initiation HEX or BIN file that has to be loaded into the chips before they can be flashed with a working calibration file.

What is your procedure to do all of this? Do you flash your chips with the files before installing them into the PCM or do you just install fresh chips and perform a flash after assembly?

Here is the scoop from Intel. My kid sisters boy friend works for Intel so I had him make a inquiry. The AN28F512 chip is specifically made for the automotive industry. The "A" prefix is for automotive temperature range of -40 to 125C in our language it means -40 to 257 degF. It has to be that high to live in the enviroment that the PCM lives in which is the engine bay.

He also gave me a PDF spec file for that specific chip for those interested let me know an I will send it to you. Plus I have to initiation files that I got from Andy at AKM cables to load into these chips to get the PCM talking again.

I don't plan on socketing PCMs myself but I will if I have to. Seeing how Delphi is now using A1 Cardone to perform PCM rebuilding for them. Which means that a reman PCM that you would purchase from GM dealer will be remanufactured by them. I can tell you with confidence that A1 Cardone products SUCK, their QC is horrible and their failure rates are high. I can't imagine why Delphi went to them other than cost cutting!

tjwong, I also work for Intel and actually probably made some of the AN28F512's when they were still in production if I remember right. We make so many different flash devices. They've been out of production for a while. Anyway, when we lose our PCM's (basically your losing the flash on the chip), it depends on how far you've got through on your programming. the first 50% of th eprogramming cycle is for one chip, and the second 50% is for the other. So say you lose it at 75%. I believe then that one chip is ok and the other is lost because it didn't get completely programmed. Someone can correct me if i'm wrong here cause i'm still learning. Andrew at AKM has a quick check to find out which chip you lost. You don't need to pop in new chips. You can re-flash the originals. You just have to make sure you put the right chips in the right boards because the .bin on each of them is different. I tried using Andrew's .bins and they didn't work for me. But what I did do was take the .bin file off each chip in my backup PCM and saved them. The .bins were complete with my program on them also. So, when I reprogrammed each of the bad chips I had, I basically flashed each chip with my complete .bin files therefore not even needing to program after putting the PCM back in the car. If Andrew has .bin files that do work though, you would need them to start off with first if you don't have a copy of your flash chips current .bin files, then you would program your current cal file into the PCM. If you get socketed, then I would pop the chips out and do a read on each chip with your e-prom programmer, if you have one, and save them incase you ever need to reflash. It's a lot easier. I don't know about that initiation bin or hex file. I'm thinking Andrews bins may just be a copy of a stock LT1's flash chip bin. Then you would have to put your own cal file on them. If this is the case and the initiation bin exists, then it would already be included in Andrews bins or a copy of your own if you make it. And if I didn't already answer your other question, Yes, I do flash the chips with files before installing them in the PCM since I have original copies of my flash .bin files. Hope this helps you out. Let me know if you have any more questions and i'll try and help if I know about it. Still on a learning curve with this stuff myself.

Ken R. 95Z

Thanks for the info,

The files that I got from Andy are just files that has enough to get the PCM talking again. Enough so that it can communicate so that you can flash them with your own calibration.

When you removed your chips did you use a heat gun to remove them as in Andys description on his website? I looked at them in my personal PCMs which at this time are working fine. I have several on hand and up to know I had not thought of socketing or reading the chips. I was worried to use a heat gun at 800 degrees to remove the chips without damaging them. I do have a prom programmer that can read and program these chips. So did you use a desoldering tool to remove them or the heat gun as Andy describes?

It sounds like your method of removing and reading the original BINs is the way to go. I got two files from Andy, one for the "T" and the other for the "E" chip, and I do have the check that Andy describes as to how to determine which chip is corrupted.

I have always in case of failure gone back to GM and purchased another at dealer cost of about $100. I would then use their SPS system to download a GM flash into my TECH2 and then flash the PCM at home as I have a bench programming setup.

But as stated in my previous post the remanufacturer that Delphi has chosen is not one I would care to use. Before Delphi had always gave us quality remanufactured PCMs to work with. I bet now you are wondering why I have several PCMs on hand...:D Well I don't tune for a living but I do a lot of it as a hobby. In the last couple of months I think I burned over 30 proms for different applications and helped several guys in the local F & Y body clubs here with some tuningissues.

My friend has three general repair shops and I get a lot of work from them, either tuning for mods in GM cars and trucks or adding a blower to a F body or a GM SUV. At one time I was going to purchase a chassis dyno that I found here in town but due to the uncertainty of our present economy I chose not to invest about $20k at this time. So thats why I have a stack of ECMs and PCMs for F & Y cars here in my little shop. Not to mention a supply of various Eproms and EEproms. I am working on getting a supply of these flash memory chips soon as well just in case to have on hand when needed.

Thanks for your help.

tjwong, I didn't do the re-socketing myself. Tunercat did it for me the last time they had to fix my PCM's. Thats when I decided I didn't want to depend on anyone else to fix them because it started to be a pain. So I bought the eprom programmer and socket and now do it myself. I've seen Andrews procedure on removing the chips. Don't know how it would work though, but obviously it must since he did a lot of re-socketing himself. As far as his .bin files for the T and E chips to get them talking again, I did try them, and they seemed to program in fine, but when I went to read the PCM, it wouldn't communicate. And it never worked until I programmed the copy of the original .bin files in each flash chip with my cal file already in the .bin also But that might have been the eprom programmer software version that I was using. I have the same programmer as Andrew and he was saying that he also had the same issues with this programmer software version. He is using an older version that seems to work better then the newer version. Anyway, good luck.
Ken R. 95Z

Rougedriver

Would you mind to send me your two bin files for your flash chips? I would like to add them to my bin library. I am in the process of removing a set of flash chips from a Corvette PCM to read the files stored into them. I beleive that the Vette chips will have a different file in them because of the difference in hardware. I would appreciate it if you could send me the a copy of your files.

I am having the same problem, the files that I got from Andrew arent communicating, could you send me the ones from your 95z?? pthompson@userid.net

Originally posted by roguedriver
tjwong, I didn't do the re-socketing myself. Tunercat did it for me the last time they had to fix my PCM's. Thats when I decided I didn't want to depend on anyone else to fix them because it started to be a pain. So I bought the eprom programmer and socket and now do it myself. I've seen Andrews procedure on removing the chips. Don't know how it would work though, but obviously it must since he did a lot of re-socketing himself. As far as his .bin files for the T and E chips to get them talking again, I did try them, and they seemed to program in fine, but when I went to read the PCM, it wouldn't communicate. And it never worked until I programmed the copy of the original .bin files in each flash chip with my cal file already in the .bin also But that might have been the eprom programmer software version that I was using. I have the same programmer as Andrew and he was saying that he also had the same issues with this programmer software version. He is using an older version that seems to work better then the newer version. Anyway, good luck.
Ken R. 95Z

Sorry to bring up this thread, but I have a question..

I know there are 2 chips in a '94-'95 computer, so if I've got a file, how are you going to program them, do you have to split the file for the two chips, and burn them separately?
I live in Hungary, and I just found a programmer for like $30 :)

Thanks!

Each chip has it's own seperate (and different) .bin file and you burn them seperately. You can't mix them up either. The right file has to be on the chip and the chip has to be in the right board when you reinstall them.

Ken R. 95Z

Alright,

I'm about to come out of the pocket for the pocket programmer. I found the website for the programmer ($150), but I need to know where to get the "socket" that I can solder in place of the chips. (to put the chips into)

I'm also going to need the hex files to put on my chips in case of the "ol pcm'o getting stucko".

Whats the price on this socket also?
Can we get spare chips?

Thanks,

David Moss

You can buy spare chips from me if you want. And if you send me your BIN I will program them with your file. Email me off list if interested.

are most of the people killing pcm's flashing in the car or on a desktop programmer. i trashed 4 pcm's before building my desktop programmer. i have flashed about 100 times after without a problem. i think there are too many variables programming the pcm on the vehicle. it is a little pain to remove and carry it into the house but it beats changing chips every five or ten flashes.

Seems like for the most part it is when people program their PCMs while it is in the car. I am like you using a bench harness for tuning. I also connect my 12v power supply to my PC UPS as well just in case.

Another thing even when a dealer who flashes your PCM in the car has been known to crash a PCM once in awhile. Even though the use a GM TECH2 scan tool download a PCM file to your PCM, if the car battery dies or if the cable is somehow disconnected, the very same thing happens to them. I repaired a couple PCMs for my buddys dealership when that has happened to them here in Portland. Yes they could have just got another PCM but the warehouse was out of them at that time.

So it was either buy one from me or have me fix it. The customer that owned the car decided to have me fix it so he could have a socketed PCM, it seems he knew about the advantages of it at the time.

I've done mine about 10-15 times so far and haven't had a problem.

I use Windows 2000 on a Dell Inspiron 7500 (400Mhz Celeron, 256MB Ram). When I do the flashing, I have absolutely every application shutdown including virus software. I also plug my laptop's charger into a wall outlet for extra protection.

I've managed compter networks for 18 years or so and know that if anything can go wrong with a computer, it will, and at the most critical time. You have to do everything you can to make sure that nothing will interfere with the programming process.

pocket programmer......

1. Can I also use this to program the proms in my 1993 chevy truck?

benchtop harness.....

1. Does someone have a picture of a complete benchtop harness?

2. Will it match the diagram that the link sends me to?

3. I'm not trying to be choosy, but I'm about to build one and want to do it right.

4. I need to know also how my PC cable end attaches also.

sockets.....

1. where to buy my sockets from. I'm sure that I'm going to need more than one.

2. extra chips? (thanks tjwong)

I'm going to flash my new PCM today, so I'll see how fast I need these things today.

Thanks yall

David Moss

Ok so I took apart my 95 PCM and its next to me, I see 2 flash chips, one on each side. I dont see what everyone is talkinga bout with the "E" chip and "T" chip. I just fried the chips yesterday with tunercat, and my friend has an EEPROM programmer, so what files do I need to place on each flash chip, and where do I get them. Thanks in advacnce

Originally posted by m0nk
Ok so I took apart my 95 PCM and its next to me, I see 2 flash chips, one on each side. I dont see what everyone is talkinga bout with the "E" chip and "T" chip. I just fried the chips yesterday with tunercat, and my friend has an EEPROM programmer, so what files do I need to place on each flash chip, and where do I get them. Thanks in advacnce

I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you or your friend have at least average soldering skills and access to a heat gun and a soldering iron with a fine tip. Also make sure that he has a PLCC32 adapter for the programmer. If you have all that, you can email me and I'll send you the right files.

The T chip is the chip on the board with the BLUE and WHITE connector and the E chip is on the other board.

If anyone needs a copy of the BIN files to reprogram corrupted chips, I have them and I'll email them to you. As for a EPROM programmer, the Pocket Programmer 2 will do all GM chips, both EPROM and FLASH (at least 82 thru OBD1, I don't know if it will work with OBD2, I don't really know much about OBD2). It's $150, and it works quite well. The website is www.xtronics.com. Also, if you plan on desoldering your chips, make sure you have a high temp soldering iron, and as Madwolf said, make sure you have a very fine tip. And, does anyone know a good place to get a high temp soldering iron, mine just died on me and I haven't been able to find anything other than the 100/240 watt guns at Radio Shack?

Oh, forgot to add where to get the sockets for the PCM. Go to www.digikey.com and the part # for the sockets is ED80009-ND. They are pretty cheap, but they will charge you a $5 handling charge for any order under $20. I think I paid like $12-$13 for 2 sockets when you figure shipping, handling, and the sockets.

Originally posted by DOOM Master
And, does anyone know a good place to get a high temp soldering iron, mine just died on me and I haven't been able to find anything other than the 100/240 watt guns at Radio Shack?



www.hosfelt.com lots of good stuff there.

Pocket Programmer.............ordered $149.00

sockets......10 of them.........ordered $17.00

1/2 OBD 1 cable...................ordered $40.00

OBD 2 calbe..........................already have

tunercat................................already have

laptop....................................already have

freescan.................................already have

datamaster...........................thinking about it.


I'm getting ready!

ps. I already have an OBD2 cable, so I only needed 1/2 of the OBD1 cable to program other cars. From the connector to the car.

Whats a good price to charge some else for a program on their car? I have a couple of folks around here who want me to program their cars for them.

Thanks

fried another one.

Ordering the PLCC adapter for the pocket programmer today. (If I can find it)

Does anyone have the diagram for the benchtop harness. I'm going to search for it now, but just in case if I don't find it, someone post it for me or send it to me at dmoss69@yahoo.com. And with the parts to put one together.

THanks

D Moss

GOOD GOD!

Which adapter do I need. There must me several thousand of these things out there.

I know I need he 32 pin on one side for the chips, but do I need the 24, 28, or 32 pin for the programmer side? I have the pocket programmer2.

Part numbers would be great.

Thanks,

D Moss

www.xtronics.com
I-PLCC28-32 $69.95

Ordered!

I know I'm killing yall with all this, but I found the website for the benchtop wiring harness, and the part numbers here are no longer correct. I can't order the stuff cause I'm not sure what to order.

Not only that, but the d-sub connector that it's talking about, isn't that the plug for the back of the pcm, or is this the plug to go into my cable that I use for programming my car. I was pretty sure that I was going to need that cable since it had the adapter already wired into it.




(1) Crimp type cable mount D-sub, 25 pin Female, 910-4770, $.62 / ea
(15) Gold Pin Sockets for above plug and for PCM pins, 910-4772, $.09/ea
(1) Plastic hood for D-sub connector, 910-1536, $.72/ea
(1) 13.8 VDC Regulated Power Supply, 910-0442, $31.95/ea
About 8-10 feet of 24 or 26 gauge wire

If someone out there knows what I need or the correct order numbers for this stuff, post it and I'll order it.

Thanks a million.

D Moss

hey yall,

I found this to be helpfull!!

http://members.cox.net/13secss/pcm_harness.html

Enjoy.

D Moss

Pocket Programmer.............ordered $149.00

sockets......10 of them.........ordered $17.00

1/2 OBD 1 cable...................ordered $40.00

OBD 2 cable..........................already have

ps. I already have an OBD2 cable, so I only needed 1/2 of the OBD1 cable to program other cars. From the connector to the car.

What source did you use for the '1/2 OBD 1 cable' ?
I've have the opposite situation. I have the complete OBD1 cable assembly, but could use the '1/2 OBD II cable', as with you, from connector to vehicle.

I had ordered my whole OBD2 connector as you did at first, then needed the other half of the OBD 1 to read and communicate with my truck.

I called andrew at AKM cables, and just ordered the 1/2 cable that goes from the adapter to the port under the dash. It was around $40.

I'm sure you can make one with ease, I was just in a hurry. I'll probably start making some cables and things soon.

D Moss

Hey guys i'm searching for the initial bin files 95z.. anyone help?.
chris@urbanweb.net if someone can attach them.. thank in advance.

another question alot of the part # i see flying around are not for 95 pcms? ie non flash.. curious what adapter i need for the pocket to program the flash version.

Pretty sure the $70 one that Ion posted. I am considering getting this myself. The real bitch is the soldering...

I spent ten minutes on the phone with the guy who makes the pocket programmer; we both had no clue about the package type of the chip.

So i'm also searching for the data file for the AN28F512 intel flash chip.
One guy in this thread has it tho just need to get in touch with him.

Well I assume PLCC if Ion said to use that adapter...

Yeah my thoery is he has a 94' and that would be a prom not flash..
I'm planning on getting a base tune from him anyway i'll get him to answer some questions :)

94 and 95 both used the 8051 PCM, which had flash chips...

94 and 95 both used the 8051 PCM, which had flash chips...

I agree i sourced some sockets today they match, thanks.

Just need the initial bin files to program the chips now.