Documenting the PEDDERS CAMARO BUILD

Pedders Gets ProCharged

Pete shipped the Pedders Camaro off to ProCharger last week. They will be using the bone stock engine and exhaust to create a final tune to ship with the retail ready kit. Because the Pedders Camaro gets around to many shows and on the web we will have our blower and hardware highly polished. Is is SOP for us, looks great but takes a lot of work to stay that way.

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PEDDERS CAMARO ON THE SHOWROOM
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This is the first step in our build. When we get it back it will get a full Revolution body kit, 305/30 19 Bridgestone RE11 mounted on the lightest weight ZX3 wheel that Forgeline can make including titanium hardware. We will install headers, exhaust cutouts, chambered exhaust, electric water pump, header coating, oil coolers, special brake pads and a custom tune. Then the Pedders eXtreme Track Kit.When we are done we expect to have 600 RWHP on a dyno certified accurate for SCCA work. We should be able to pull over 1G on the skid pad and expect to run laps faster than a C6 Z06 stock Corvette.

Pete picks up the Pedders ProCharged Camaro from ATI this Friday and will drive it back to Michigan. By the time they get to Backstreet Performance for the final tune he will have about 4,000 miles on it or put another way close enough to break it in and get good numbers and performance on the street and dyno. This is just the start of the thread. We will get pictures of the Pedders Camaro starting this weekend and throughout the build. It will debut at the Berger All Chevy Show on the 29th of this month.

Revolution Body Kits
bodydrop45@aol.com

Back Street Performance
650 W. Smith Rd. Unit 12
Medina, OH 44256
http://www.backstreetper.com
Rich Johnson
440.655.7677
rich@backstreetper.com

Berger Chevrolet
2525 28th Street SE
Grand Rapids, MI, 49512
616) 828-5916
http://www.bergerchevrolet.com/

thanks,
mike
dms__________________

Jason,

When do you get your ProCharger installed?

pete, when is the car going to be at backstreet? im hoping to be able to come up there and meet you if your going to be there.....and maybe get a test ride/drive?

pete, when is the car going to be at backstreet? im hoping to be able to come up there and meet you if your going to be there.....and maybe get a test ride/drive?Hmmm that would be a test ride :D It looks like the second week of September for final tuning, coolers and such.

you gonna make it to the f body classic at summit racing next month? if your going to be at backstreet the second week, the show is the 12th and 13th.

you gonna make it to the f body classic at summit racing next month? if your going to be at backstreet the second week, the show is the 12th and 13th.Possibly.

Pete flew in tonight to pick up is camaro with the pro charger blower on it. Next to back street performance for a bunch of upgrades!

Thanks
mike
dms

The guys at ProCharger are nothing less than awesome. They treat me so incredibly well i cannot imagine using another product. Their installations are off the charts and more refined every time. They have out performed my expectations again and that is saying a lot Becca my expectations were exceptionally high this time around.

The blower has helical cut gears which are much quieter than the standard cut. The classic ProCharger whistle is gone. It is dead quiet at idle. No one will know what is under the hood. It is dead quiet at speed. The dump is virtually inaudible. This is the most refined ProCharger ever. The only clue you have that the Pedders USA, LLC Camaro is ProCharged comes when you depress the accelerator.

The mounting bracket for the unit is thicker, stronger and just plain looks rock solid. The tensioner is a twelve rib unit on my currently eight rib belt. It appears to be bullet proof. Everything looks factory clean. The air filter mounts cleanly atop the engine.

There is much debate about the placement of the air filter. Here are a few details you should be aware of. The air flow in an engine compartment is designed at the factory to draw hot air down and away from the engine compartment. When a vehicle is in motion there is little difference in temperatures in the engine compartment unless we are measuring right next to the exhaust manifolds. Now in Pedders Camaro, we really like the placement of the air intake on the ProCharger because our Revolution Camaro Cowl Induction Hood will be feeding it a steady supply of external air.

Now for the bad news ProCharger delivered to me. My Camaro was the limpest stick in the units they have tested. It came in 18 RWHP low. I am hoping that some very spirited driving will loosen this thing up and let it grow some hair. A typical ProCharged Camaro will produce 525 RWHP. Mine limped in at 510. We are in no way ready to give up those missing 18 ponies. The math doesn't seem right because while we limped into ProCharger our ProCharged gain was slightly above average which give us hope that it is still breaking in.

We also are upgrading the exhaust to included American Racing Headers, Sweet Thunder chambered exhaust and QTP cut outs. An electric water pump will be installed so we can cycle it after runs to keep cooling the engine. Eric at back Street Performance will be doing a custom tune. With all this we expect to find at least another 50 RWHP and if the missing ponies come home we may reach our goal of 600 RWHP. Time will tell.

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To all those dedicated people at ProCharger that worked so hard on this project Pedders USA, LLC extends our thanks. The operation was flawless on my trip. I promise to keep you posted on the progress of the rest of our build. Thanks you for a job eXtremely well done.

When do i get to drive?

While some will take the interior of their new 5th Gen to the eXtreme, our interior mods will be modest with the extreme reserved for performance and the exterior.

The shift pattern is pretty darn good from the factory and appear to have been dialed in for performance driving so why are the pedals so hard to heal and toe. I have been driving around with t e pseudo Berger mods courtesy of Matt Berger. These Momo pedal allow you to shrink the distance between the brake and gas pedals. They have an aggressive no slip pattern. You can see we removed the rubber on the brake and clutch pedals to make certain we had a bullet proof installation with no possibility of anything moving. After driving this around for a bit we decided they are in for good and will remove them to trim the OEM pedal materials for a super clean installation.

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We ordered custom Pedders mats including the trunk.

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The pedals work great and make performance driving more comfortable. The Custom Auto Accessories, Inc. mats look good and feel better than they look. We have a couple of additional mods for the interior that are small in size but we feel will add some drama to the interior. They should be complete next week and the pictures will be posted here.

We have to get our beast ready for the Home Town Cruise. The 28th Street Cruise in Grand rapids Michigan is a huge event. Woodward may be bigger, but 28th Street is our home turf so it has to be better. Our Camaro is back from ATI / ProCharger and now the exterior mods go into high gear.


Front Splitter
Upper and Lower Grilles
Cowl Induction Hood
Shaved Emblems and Badges
Shaved Door Handles
Shaved Spoiler
Side Sills
Rear Lower Fascia
Deck Wing -- Maybe
Interior Paint
Tinted Windows


We picked up the Camaro at ATI and mad a hard run from Lenexa to West Olive in 10 hours and 15 minutes including gas, food and where is the head I gotta go right now stops so we could deliver the Camaro to Essex Customs in Grand Rapids. We reviewed the build list and went right to work Saturday afternoon. Jason is as jacked about this project as we are and that is really good news as he has a lot to do.

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The rear sheet metal work on the Camaro is nothing short of gorgeous. It is stunning and gets lost with the wing. The roof, fenders and deck lid lines are so well done they would be at home on a Ferrari. We think that wingless may be the best look. Removing the rear wing does increase drag, but with something like 600 RWHP who care about a little drag that hold the car down to 189 instead of 190? A wind that is raised and allows you to still enjoy the OEM art work may be acceptable, but we really like naked for now.

Jason will be sending us pictures to update this thread over the next few days. He is on a tight schedule -- very tight schedule. All the mods have to be complete by Wednesday so we can get the car over to Witt for:


Pedders Xa Track eXtreme Suspension
Corner Weighting
Alignment
Install Full Alignment Kit
Install Headers
Install Sweet Thunder Exhaust and QTP Cutouts
Install Cobalt Friction Pedders Hardcore Track Only XR Pads
Install Forgeline 19x10.5 Wheels
Install Bridgestone 305/30/19 RE-11s all around


We already know that several items will not be ready while other are on the bubble.


Grilles
Side Vents
Rear Wing
Rear Fascia


What will get done -- stay tuned as the thread will be frequently updated.

thanks
mike
dms

This is awesome!

Jason and his crew at Essex have the tear down well under way.

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Pete is standing over Jason's shoulder whispering "only three more days and it has to be done".

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That spoiler just won't go away. Anyone need an OEM spoiler?

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Jason and his crew have the trunk lid and door handles shaved.

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looks good. cant wait to see it.i like the floormats

Jason and company kicked serious backside yesterday. I'll swing by the shop and collect some updated photos this afternoon.

We wanted to do something special in the interior and decided that Victory Red was exactly what we needed. The first step is to take apart the interior.

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The small things actually take a lot more time because of the detail involved.

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The end result should be sweet. I love the smell of paint thiner in the morning. It smells like Victory red!

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Here is the day in video. It includes the interior and exterior prime and paint work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrmqrOOjLls

The guys at Essex had the Camaro stripped down in record time.

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We have the work in pictures and in video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrmqrOOjLls

Shaving the door handles or spoiler sounds easier than it i. Once the hardware is removed we have to get down to good sheet metal, cut away the stamping indentations. Weld and fill. Prime and sand and then do it again until it is perfect.

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The engine compart has to be as clean as the rest of the car. That means the OEM pebble grain plastic has to be smoothed and painted as well as the body panels. Sand, prime, sand, fill, sand, prime until it is just right.

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Then we get into the really new and cool stuff. Here is the first Revolution body part -- the spoiler. Step one is the test fit. Step two is prime, sand, fill, prime sand fill, prime sand....

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awwww! i love the chin spoiler. please tell me this is going to be available through to the public somehow

awwww! i love the chin spoiler. please tell me this is going to be available through to the public somehow

All parts that will be installed will be available.

mike
dms

All parts that will be installed will be available.

mike
dms
Through Pedders and your local Dealers

Monday night and Tuesday were really productive. The crew at Essex Customz will start assembling the Pedders USA Camaro later in the day. We should have a hood, although it may be really green as in fresh out of the mold, by the end of the day. Check it out in video and pictures.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW1PS0Dh7lY

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They have an amazing process at Essex Customz -- http://www.cosmichrome.com/intro.htm

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We shot the process in HD and will get that posted to YouTube soon. When all i said and done the key to a really great car is attention to detail.

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i like the black roof on the red. im sure thats going to look good.

Day three and we are almost done.

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They are doing assembly as I type, but you'll not see the whole car until Friday an Saturday at the 28th Street Cruise.

cant wait to see it.

Pete just got back from the shop. The guys are still hard at it in large part because of some back luck and issues with part fitment. When doing a final buffing after full body wet sand, the buffer pad got caught in the hole for the side view mirror. This oops is being corrected by reshooting the door. We all thought we had the interior door panels correctly taped so the LED lighting would still be 100% functional. What we have is maybe 2% function. Once again, no real problem here it just takes time. They have already ordered two new inserts and will have them perfectly finished next week.

The hood has been a challenge. Something changed from plug to splash for the bottom of the hood. The top skin is production perfect ready. They devised a plan for the weekend show and sacrificed my OEM hood making it a donor for the new skin. This took hours we just didn't have. What it means is the crew at Essex is burning serious hours until the car id done. We'll have it trailered to Witt Pedders Buick for the suspension work in the morning.

Thursday is headers, suspension wheels and tires.

Friday is finishing anything we missed on Thursday as well as the new exhaust,

Friday night it is time to cruise 26th Street!

Monday we'll continue to finish up development of more revolution accessories as well as anything we missed to make the show. Pete really hates to have a car that isn't finished and isn't perfect, but he understands the challenges of developing new accessories and really enjoys working with skilled people. Pete and I learn more on every build from the people we work with. That is one of the great things about big builds ñ the people involved. We learn more every time we test at a track. It is one of the reasons we build and personally track all these cars. We want to live with them and not just sell parts for them.

no new pictures?

A sneak preview before the hood is put on:
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The guys had to do an all nighter, and spent today starting on the suspension. The hood will be done tomorrow morning before the big event. Not like cutting it to the wire. But that is what happens when you are doing custom work.

mike
dms

that is awesome! looks totally bad ass. i love the wheels.

Here are some shots from the event. Unfortunately they have very serious rain and it was very cold for this time of year.

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More to come.

thanks
mike
dms

very cool looking. i love the hood. what was the reasoning for removing the rear ssspoiler?

hey pete, any new news on the sway bars? i saw on the pedders web site that there is a sway bar kit with bushings. is it available for the camaro yet? i want to put sway bars on hopefully before i put the car away for the year. and i figure ill have backstreet do all the bushings when i have them tune the car for the s/c.

hey pete, any new news on the sway bars? i saw on the pedders web site that there is a sway bar kit with bushings. is it available for the camaro yet? i want to put sway bars on hopefully before i put the car away for the year. and i figure ill have backstreet do all the bushings when i have them tune the car for the s/c.

We are looking at having 3 different sway bar packages. Ding this will give us the tools to be able to meet the needs of every driving condition. There is no 1 or 2 bar setup that can meet the needs of all setups..

Now we have 2 out the the 3 bar sets established. We are waiting for the 3rd special bar that has been in customs now going over 2-3 weeks. There are some security issues going on in our land that shut down to a crawl the custom stuff.

I can tell you we will have a 1 bar and 22 bar options. We will also require updating the end links front and rear. To be honest, the OE stuff bends too easily. Putting in our bars without updating end links, will make the end links look like pretzels. We have already experienced this. Why other manufacturers of bars will do bars and leave the end links alone, must be a marketing strategy to keep the prices low.Our end links are not only thicker, but the actual joints are much larger. This is an important reliability enhancement. It will require you to drill out the mounts to the body.

So thank you for your patience. The bar set on the merlin store is incorrect. We are waiting for p/ns from Au. When we get them, we will be able to post more data. Once we have the opportunity to test the bar, which will require fitment and testing on 3 to 4 different Camaros to simulate different setups, then we will have everything available for you.

thanks
mike
dms

So many choices and so little time --

Working with GM for the 2008 SEMA GS Camaro
Working with Riley Tech on the GS Camaro
Working on our own Camaro Range
3 Radius Bush Options
2 Sub-Frame Bush Options
2 Differential Bush Options
Full Alignment Bolt Kit
Full Bush Kit
Xa Coilovers
Optional 9Kg Rear Coils for the Xas
27mm Bar front
HD Adjustable Endlinks that are as quiet and civil as the OEM links
Lowering Coils refined 5 times -- almost ready for release
Rear Bars from 24mm to 32mm and still testing...

-- or maybe I am enjoying the testing process too much. :D

if your looking for a camaro to do a test fit on for the sway bars, count me in. i want the best sway bar that you offer. i want a nice tight ride and firm cornering. it sounds like theres going to be a daily driver sway bar, occasional racer sway bar , and a full out race sway bar setup. if you could, just keep me informed on when they will be available.

I kinda already have my foot in the door on that one. More specifically...parts in my garage. :D

You are both spot on and we will keep you informed. I am at the SCCA Run Offs at Road America. One of my drivers, Chris Brannon just took a street drive in our Camaro. He absolutely fell head over heels like a teenager in love. Our five minute get a quick read on the car turned into a 1/4 of a tank drive.

I kinda already have my foot in the door on that one. More specifically...parts in my garage. :D

what do you mean ,you have parts in your garage?!?! sway bars?? i want/need them so bad. its too loose for me still.

Pete and I have secret meetings in an undisclosed location, usually an underground bunker. We sit in large leather club chairs in a dark library, smoke Cuban cigars, and drink expensive cognac while discuss tactics. Soon, we will have ultimate control over the entire 5th gen Camaro suspension & handling realm and every Camaro will be Pedderized. Muahahahahahahahahah! :devil:

Come on...it's Friday... :D

Pete and I have secret meetings in an undisclosed location, usually an underground bunker. We sit in large leather club chairs in a dark library, smoke Cuban cigars, and drink expensive cognac while discuss tactics. Soon, we will have ultimate control over the entire 5th gen Camaro suspension & handling realm and every Camaro will be Pedderized. Muahahahahahahahahah! :devil:

Come on...it's Friday... :D

Works for me!

Pete and I have secret meetings in an undisclosed location, usually an underground bunker. We sit in large leather club chairs in a dark library, smoke Cuban cigars, and drink expensive cognac while discuss tactics. Soon, we will have ultimate control over the entire 5th gen Camaro suspension & handling realm and every Camaro will be Pedderized. Muahahahahahahahahah! :devil:

Come on...it's Friday... :D

Hey,
Can I join? I will pass on the cigars, but accept the cognac!!

mike
dms

ill bring some good cohibas!

Detroit on Monday is the place to be.

Detroit on Monday is the place to be.

Looking forward to it. :cool:

Looking forward to it. :cool:Do we have correct times for our 'meeting' on Monday?

I told the man handling the schedule so I believe that it is all set. However, a follow up phone call before Monday may be in order, just to make sure. Can you cover that? I don't have the number handy.

I told the man handling the schedule so I believe that it is all set. However, a follow up phone call before Monday may be in order, just to make sure. Can you cover that? I don't have the number handy.

I'll try from the track to day.

whats going on in detroit today? other than everyone celebrating the lions winning streak........:lol:

whats going on in detroit today? other than everyone celebrating the lions winning streak........:lol:Jason's Camaro gets Xa coilovers, very special radius rod bushes and a pre-production bar fitment. Other than that, not much...

awwwww. i want special bars!

hey pete, are all the bushings available for the camaro yet? when i met you, i think you told me that there were 18 bushings total???? is that right? are all 18 of these sold in a kit?

Just got back from having a nice dinner with Pete. Oh yeah...and we installed the Extreme Xa kit. DAYUM...if you like your suspension done right, the Extreme Xa is the ticket for sure. Hands down one of the most impressive mods I have ever done to a car. The kit is very high quality and well thought out. The car feels really solid and everything is much tighter...even the steering with the right alignment. The Michigan weather sucked today so I couldn't see how well I could push it. I should get my chance soon! It sure looks killer a couple inches lower, too. :cool:

I'll be covering it more in the near future here, in my 2010 Camaro project blog as well as in a future episode of the CamaroZ28.Com Podcast, so be listening!! Until then, if anyone has an questions, please ask!

Thanks Pete, Deb, Mike, Dan, and everyone else at Pedders!!

Just got back from having a nice dinner with Pete. Oh yeah...and we installed the Extreme Xa kit. DAYUM...if you like your suspension done right, the Extreme Xa is the ticket for sure. Hands down one of the most impressive mods I have ever done to a car. The kit is very high quality and well thought out. The car feels really solid and everything is much tighter...even the steering with the right alignment. The Michigan weather sucked today so I couldn't see how well I could push it. I should get my chance soon! It sure looks killer a couple inches lower, too. :cool:

I'll be covering it more in the near future here, in my 2010 Camaro project blog as well as in a future episode of the CamaroZ28.Com Podcast, so be listening!! Until then, if anyone has an questions, please ask!

Thanks Pete, Deb, Mike, Dan, and everyone else at Pedders!!

There is a rule when you get Pedderized. We need a picture or 2

mike

Just got back from having a nice dinner with Pete. Oh yeah...and we installed the Extreme Xa kit. DAYUM...if you like your suspension done right, the Extreme Xa is the ticket for sure. Hands down one of the most impressive mods I have ever done to a car. The kit is very high quality and well thought out. The car feels really solid and everything is much tighter...even the steering with the right alignment. The Michigan weather sucked today so I couldn't see how well I could push it. I should get my chance soon! It sure looks killer a couple inches lower, too. :cool:

I'll be covering it more in the near future here, in my 2010 Camaro project blog as well as in a future episode of the CamaroZ28.Com Podcast, so be listening!! Until then, if anyone has an questions, please ask!

Thanks Pete, Deb, Mike, Dan, and everyone else at Pedders!!
it is an amazing kit. did you get the sway bars put on too?

There is a rule when you get Pedderized. We need a picture or 2

I'll be talking about it in the near future, but for now, the pics can be found here:

During the installation
http://www.phantomss.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/pedders-usa-extreme-xa-installation/thumbs/thumbs_DSC01585.JPG
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After the installation
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http://www.phantomss.com/gallery/?album=3&gallery=11 (http://www.phantomss.com/gallery/?album=3&gallery=11)

you do have sway bars!!!!pete,when can i get some of those??????i also want all the bushings. is any of it in stock?

Correction...I am testing a rear sway bar for Pete.

You probably don't need all of the bushings, but Pete will be the final say on that. Just my thoughts if it is worth anything.

Correction...I am testing a rear sway bar for Pete.

just the rear? why just the rear?

ive been trying to get some information from people regarding the sway bars but i figure petes busy, so do you know if any sway bars are available yet through pedders? or any of the bushings? im ready to do something and i would like to do it before the winter comes or before i store the car.

ive been trying to get some information from people regarding the sway bars but i figure petes busy, so do you know if any sway bars are available yet through pedders? or any of the bushings? im ready to do something and i would like to do it before the winter comes or before i store the car.

We just got the p/ns for our sway bar kits. We will have 3. They are:

CAMAROSOLUTIONA

27mm Front Swaybars & 2 links

The vast majority of Camaro owners would be changing bars to reduce body lean and improve turn in. Keep in mind that driving a Camaro past 7/10s means you are making extremely high speed maneuvers. Many Camaro owners will never experience factory understeer -- because they don't push that hard when they drive. That doesn't mean they would not have a superior driving experience with a larger diameter front bar. A larger diameter front bar will greatly reduce the lean you feel on the highway or in a turn. It will improve turn in to a point, but when it goes into understeer, it will be worse than with the factory bar. Up to that point, it will provide a very rewarding driving experience. Camaro Solution A Pedders 27mm front bar that ships with urethane D Bushes, Brackets and a Pair of 424218 Adjustable Endlinks. This installation requires the OEM holes for the endlink to be drilled to fit the larger 424218 endlink studs.


Retail $299.99 EA


CAMAROSOLUTIONB
27mm F & R bars & 4 links

For the more aggressive enthusiast Camaro owners, those that want a rewarding driving experience and a reduction in actual understeer Pedders Solution B will be the answer. In this configuration, the front bar is 27mm 428020-27A and the rear bar is 27mm 429020-27A. The transition from slight understeer to slight oversteer will be predictable based on the velocity of the vehicle. The faster the vehicle travels, the faster the vehicle will enter oversteer in a turn. This setup requires the driver to know the difference between understeer and oversteer as well as how to react to both. You have to know when you can lift and when you cannot lift or things will get worse fast. Both bars are adjustable. Start out with the rear bar set to full soft and the front bar to full hard. Work through the adjustment range until you are comfortable with your setup. We encourage ALL Camaro owners to take a performance driving class to learn how to safely operate a high performance vehicle. Solution B includes 27mm front bar, 27mm rear bar, Urethane D bushes and 424218 Adjustable endlinks. This installation requires the OEM holes for endlinks to be drilled to fit the larger 424218 endlink studs.


Retail $599.98 EA

CAMAROSOLUTIONC 27mm F & 32mm R bars & 4 links

Camaro Sway Bar Kit - Includes 428020-27A, 429020-32A, 2- 424218 Pedders Competition Part -- RACING AND OFF ROAD USE ONLY. See Disclaimer below

For drivers that are SCCA or NASA qualified, those expert car control drivers Pedders has put together a track ready sway bar package. The front bar remains at 27mm 428020-27A, but the rear bar increases in diameter to 32mm 429020-32A. The larger rear bar allows you to adjust in the amount of oversteer you desire. Between the front and rear bar adjustments you can create a very loose and very fast track ready Camaro. Make no mistake about it; this is an aggressive setup that ships with a disclaimer. The disclaimer makes clear these are for track use only. We do want you to send us your Podium Finish Pictures and have no interest in your damaged rim from a street incident. We told you before you bought these bars they were for SCCA and NASA qualified drivers for TRACK USE. Once again, you must know your driving limits. This setup is designed for track use by qualified drivers with years of high speed cornering experience. Solution C includes 27mm front bar, 32mm rear bar, D Bushes and Brackets along with 4 4242218 Adjustable Endlinks. This installation requires the OEM holes for endlinks to be drilled to fit the larger 424218 endlink studs. The rear bars is sold as a replacement ONLY for the rear bar in Camaro Solution C. Pedders Competition Part -- RACING AND OFF ROAD USE ONLY. If a Pedders competition part proves defective following its purchase, the buyer and not Pedders, the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer shall be solely responsible for all costs incurred to service or repair the defective Pedders competition part. The end user is solely responsible and assumes all risk associated with the performance of the Pedders competition part No Pedders competition part is street legal or certified under federal motor vehicle safety standards or regulations. Therefore, Pedders competition parts are not intended or certified for use on public roads. Use of this part is at the sole judgment and risk of the end user. Therefore, Pedders competition parts are not intended or certified for use on public roads


Retail $649.98 EA

We now have 3 options for front radius rod bushing enhancements. Systems have already been developed. I finsihed them last week. We started entering the some of the changes and data this mor4ning. We will have approximately 25 systems available for the Camaro. This is a lot, but the are set up logically to be able to meet the needs of a lot of different driving needs and budgets.

We also have 2 options for the rear cradle bushings: inserts that should be good for up to 450hp, and solid bushings for heavy performance, drag racing, and hps over the 450 at the rear

We also have 2 different rear diff mount bushings. One that will allow a very controlled amount of movement and one that is a very sloid bushing that virtually eliminates all rear end movement

We made a design enhancement change to our coil over sets. This will get us able to qualify to the max for some sporting events. Cannot say anymore on this. A large amount of them are in transit right now and left last week.

We have 3 alignment kits for the Camaro.
1. A front kit that will make caster adjustable, and includes camber adjusting bolts that do not come with the Camaro
2. HD rear Camber and toe eccentric kits that asre lasor cut, lifetime warranty, that will give you a greater range of adjustabilitiy
3. Then a kit that will include the front and rear adjusters

GM made a change in one of the bushings from the first run to the vehicles now. Our bushing for this change is in transit now

I know that we have delayed some of our stuff. But we have sometimes been working around the clock on stuff and I think we are all done. Now will come the tests. We have rented Gingerman for the 10th and 11th of this month. Will not be able to mention a lot about the tests, because there will be mutliple magazines there to document it aznd they get testy when you give out info that first must be given out to ther subscribers. But Pete will figure out what we can or cannot give out prior. We Will have a race car there to compare it to. We also have access to current lap times of all vehicles that run there. So this will be a fun event for sure


We have been working for weeks on offering to the Camaro community an definitve anaylsis of the Camaro suspension and wheels and tires review. We should have this available in completed form for all of you very soon. It is broken up into about 14 sections with an index so you will be able to go to a specific section if you desire.


Here are all the systems we will have hopefullly completed in merlin by next week. Systems are great becasue they offer the buyers some nice discounts. I have worked out a spread sheet that basically describes the differences with each system that all can use and see. But most importantly, we will be available to all of you to assist you in which kit will be best for you based on our driving needs, looks, and of coarse budget.

Pedders kits that will be available soon in our merlin store
CAMARO Coil Drop Kit 1
Camaro Coil Performance Drop Kit 2
CAMARO Street 1
Camaro Serious Street 1 Packge

CAMARO SPORT PACKAGE

Camaro Touring DROP kit 1
Camaro Touring Perf. drop Kit II
CAMARO TOURING EXT. Xa kit

Camaro Street ii drop kit 1
Camaro Street ii Plus drop kit 1
Camaro Street II drop Kit II
Camaro Street ii Plus drop kit II

CAMARO STREET EXTREME XA
Street Extreme XA
StreetII Extreme XA PLUS

SERIOUS Track II Perf. Drop Kit II
Track II Perf. Drop Kit II
SERIOUS Track II Drop Kit 1
Track II Drop Kit 1

CAMARO Extreme XA Track
CAMARO SERIOUS Extreme XA Track

G8 BASIC DRAG STRIP KIT
G8 Drag bushing Kit LEVEL 2
G8 Extreme Drag Package
G8 Extreme XA Drag Package


So a lot has been goin on with Pedders the last month or so. We are still working on getting the Revolution Body upgrades up and running. This is taking more time than we thought, but will be up and running in full force when we can service the Camaro community properly with these parts.


thanks to all

mike
dms

ok just a few questions. the 27mm f &r sway. why the same size for both? why not larger front and smaller than front bar in the rear? looking at other sway bars, like hotchkis and eibach, what makes the pedders bar better and more $? im not knocking the pedders stuff, im just curious what makes the $ 200 difference between the solution b and hotchkis sway bars. also for the bushings, i dont know whjat items are included in those kits you listed, but do you have a kit for all the bushings? and the most important question is.........When can i order these things and when will i recieve them?

hotchkis is using a 32mm up front and a 25 in the rear and eibach is using 29 for the front and rear.

hotchkis is using a 32mm up front and a 25 in the rear and eibach is using 29 for the front and rear.

Diameter doesn't tell you much if you don't also know whether they changed the geometry at all, the torsional strength of the particular alloy they're using, whether their bars are hollow (and if so, what's the inner diameter), and probably a bunch of other smaller factors as well.

A 27mm solid bar is generally stiffer (and therefore inhibits roll to a greater degree) than an otherwise-equal 32mm hollow bar.

Just FYI. The point is, in order to make a proper comparison, you need a lot more info that what you have here.

I haven't gone out and done any digging to find out what sort of testing Hotchkis and Eibach have done with their bars or how much info they've published about post-install car behavior, but Pedders is here telling you what sort of driving characteristics you'll get with each of the three different setups. The car's behavior after the fact is FAR more important than the actual size of the bar.

ok just a few questions. the 27mm f &r sway. why the same size for both? why not larger front and smaller than front bar in the rear? looking at other sway bars, like hotchkis and eibach, what makes the pedders bar better and more $? im not knocking the pedders stuff, im just curious what makes the $ 200 difference between the solution b and hotchkis sway bars. also for the bushings, i dont know whjat items are included in those kits you listed, but do you have a kit for all the bushings? and the most important question is.........When can i order these things and when will i recieve them?

You are asking great questions. To start, Pedders sway bars are solid bars and solid bars are an average of 15% stronger than hollow. There are engineering notes from Hotchkiss and Whiteline on this. Check out the link on this thread in the sway bar section, and there is a a hyperlink to the engineering notes on this.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714204


I can tell you we have tried a serious amount of sway bar size options, and using g meters, time clocks, and personal yet subjective evaluations, these are the sizes that we have found to be best. I do not know if Hotchkis and Eibach have in fact done these tests. I do know the Hotchkis front bars are not adjustable and ours are.

Another great question: Why are out bars more expensive than Hotchkiss. I will tell you they are not. I do not think you read the evaluations very well. In our testing, we bent the OE end links. therefore, we will only sell our bars with a set of sway bar adjustable end link. These are not just replacement end links. The OEm end links are 8 and 10mm thick. Ours are at 12mm thick. Plus, our ballstud ends are much larger that the OE factory units. You will have to drill out the mounting holes on the front strut and the rear lower control arm to be able to mount them. Opening up the holes from 8mm to 12mm, is seriously easy.

Per the Hotchkis web site, here is the data on the Hotchkis bars:

Hotchkiss Sway bars are 31.75mm front and 25.4mm rear Hollow bars. No adj front, 3 way adj rear
http://www.hotchkis.net/2010_camaro_adjustable_sport_sway_bars.htm

A 32mm hollow bar equals approximately a 27.2mm solid bar
A 25.4mm hollow rear bar equals approximately a 21.6mm solid bar.
Read the article that you can hyperlink from the link above and you will see how this info is obtained. You will also find out on the link that there are other negative issues related to hollow bars that are not good as well.

The additional weight of a solid bar is unimportant when you consider how low it sits.

Now lets compare what will be our most popular bar set:

CAMAROSOLUTIONB
27mm F & R bars & 4 links

For the more aggressive enthusiast Camaro owners, those that want a rewarding driving experience and a reduction in actual understeer Pedders Solution B will be the answer. In this configuration, the front bar is 27mm 428020-27A and the rear bar is 27mm 429020-27A. The transition from slight understeer to slight oversteer will be predictable based on the velocity of the vehicle. The faster the vehicle travels, the faster the vehicle will enter oversteer in a turn. This setup requires the driver to know the difference between understeer and oversteer as well as how to react to both. You have to know when you can lift and when you cannot lift or things will get worse fast. Both bars are adjustable. Start out with the rear bar set to full soft and the front bar to full hard. Work through the adjustment range until you are comfortable with your setup. We encourage ALL Camaro owners to take a performance driving class to learn how to safely operate a high performance vehicle. Solution B includes 27mm front bar, 27mm rear bar, Urethane D bushes and 424218 Adjustable endlinks. This installation requires the OEM holes for endlinks to be drilled to fit the larger 424218 endlink studs.

Briefly, it as:
1. a 27mm Solid front bar, which equals a 31.05mm hollow bar
2. the front Pedders bar is adjustable, the Hotchkiss bar is not
3. A 27mm solid rear bar is equal to a 31.05mm hollow rear bar. The Hotchkiss rear bar is 25.4mm. both rear bars are adjustable, but ours is seriously stronger. This is really important for the understeer assistance.
4. Our kit includes 4 adjustable 12mm HD end links. Hotchkiss bars do not include end links at all. Maybe Hotchkiss bars will not bend end links, but ours will!! that should tell you something.

Did I explain this adequately for you? Here is the link itself for Whiteline

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/Hollow%20vs%20Solid%20Swaybar.pdf

Whiteline makes some great stuff and are very strong in the foreign car line market. They make things that Pedders does not. Many Pedders dealers in Au. will also distribute some of the special Whiteline Flatout components.We may soon here in the states as well.

So if you do not believe what I have typed, then the bottom line for you is that our system includes 4 HD 12mm end links, and theres does not. The other companies that do not offer end links with their bars, I would question, and ask it yourself:
1. Why would our Pedders bars bend end links, and the Hotchkis bars not? This should be a fairly logical question to be able to answer.

All the Hotchkis data I got directly from their web site and I included the link so you can see it and check it out yourself.

thanks
mike
dms

HERE IS A LINK THAT ALL OF YOU SHOULD SPEND 30-40 MINUTES READING. ESPECIALLY THE NEWBEES


http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714204

THANKS
MIKE
DMS

Diameter doesn't tell you much if you don't also know whether they changed the geometry at all, the torsional strength of the particular alloy they're using, whether their bars are hollow (and if so, what's the inner diameter), and probably a bunch of other smaller factors as well.

A 27mm solid bar is generally stiffer (and therefore inhibits roll to a greater degree) than an otherwise-equal 32mm hollow bar.

Just FYI. The point is, in order to make a proper comparison, you need a lot more info that what you have here.

I haven't gone out and done any digging to find out what sort of testing Hotchkis and Eibach have done with their bars or how much info they've published about post-install car behavior, but Pedders is here telling you what sort of driving characteristics you'll get with each of the three different setups. The car's behavior after the fact is FAR more important than the actual size of the bar.

i understand how things work. im just trying to get some information from someone because i havent been able to get anything about the pedders sway bars until now. im gathering all of my information and then i will make my purchase based on that.

Quite honestly, I would just tell the folks at Pedders what kind of driving you do or plan to do, and get whatever they say to get. :)

You are asking great questions. To start, Pedders sway bars are solid bars and solid bars are an average of 15% stronger than hollow. There are engineering notes from Hotchkiss and Whiteline on this. Check out the link on this thread in the sway bar section, and there is a a hyperlink to the engineering notes on this.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714204


I can tell you we have tried a serious amount of sway bar size options, and using g meters, time clocks, and personal yet subjective evaluations, these are the sizes that we have found to be best. I do not know if Hotchkis and Eibach have in fact done these tests. I do know the Hotchkis front bars are not adjustable and ours are.

Another great question: Why are out bars more expensive than Hotchkiss. I will tell you they are not. I do not think you read the evaluations very well. In our testing, we bent the OE end links. therefore, we will only sell our bars with a set of sway bar adjustable end link. These are not just replacement end links. The OEm end links are 8 and 10mm thick. Ours are at 12mm thick. Plus, our ballstud ends are much larger that the OE factory units. You will have to drill out the mounting holes on the front strut and the rear lower control arm to be able to mount them. Opening up the holes from 8mm to 12mm, is seriously easy.

Per the Hotchkis web site, here is the data on the Hotchkis bars:

Hotchkiss Sway bars are 31.75mm front and 25.4mm rear Hollow bars. No adj front, 3 way adj rear
http://www.hotchkis.net/2010_camaro_adjustable_sport_sway_bars.htm

A 32mm hollow bar equals approximately a 27.2mm solid bar
A 25.4mm hollow rear bar equals approximately a 21.6mm solid bar.
Read the article that you can hyperlink from the link above and you will see how this info is obtained. You will also find out on the link that there are other negative issues related to hollow bars that are not good as well.

The additional weight of a solid bar is unimportant when you consider how low it sits.

Now lets compare what will be our most popular bar set:

CAMAROSOLUTIONB
27mm F & R bars & 4 links

For the more aggressive enthusiast Camaro owners, those that want a rewarding driving experience and a reduction in actual understeer Pedders Solution B will be the answer. In this configuration, the front bar is 27mm 428020-27A and the rear bar is 27mm 429020-27A. The transition from slight understeer to slight oversteer will be predictable based on the velocity of the vehicle. The faster the vehicle travels, the faster the vehicle will enter oversteer in a turn. This setup requires the driver to know the difference between understeer and oversteer as well as how to react to both. You have to know when you can lift and when you cannot lift or things will get worse fast. Both bars are adjustable. Start out with the rear bar set to full soft and the front bar to full hard. Work through the adjustment range until you are comfortable with your setup. We encourage ALL Camaro owners to take a performance driving class to learn how to safely operate a high performance vehicle. Solution B includes 27mm front bar, 27mm rear bar, Urethane D bushes and 424218 Adjustable endlinks. This installation requires the OEM holes for endlinks to be drilled to fit the larger 424218 endlink studs.

Briefly, it as:
1. a 27mm Solid front bar, which equals a 31.05mm hollow bar
2. the front Pedders bar is adjustable, the Hotchkiss bar is not
3. A 27mm solid rear bar is equal to a 31.05mm hollow rear bar. The Hotchkiss rear bar is 25.4mm. both rear bars are adjustable, but ours is seriously stronger. This is really important for the understeer assistance.
4. Our kit includes 4 adjustable 12mm HD end links. Hotchkiss bars do not include end links at all. Maybe Hotchkiss bars will not bend end links, but ours will!! that should tell you something.

Did I explain this adequately for you? Here is the link itself for Whiteline

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/Hollow%20vs%20Solid%20Swaybar.pdf

Whiteline makes some great stuff and are very strong in the foreign car line market. They make things that Pedders does not. Many Pedders dealers in Au. will also distribute some of the special Whiteline Flatout components.We may soon here in the states as well.

So if you do not believe what I have typed, then the bottom line for you is that our system includes 4 HD 12mm end links, and theres does not. The other companies that do not offer end links with their bars, I would question, and ask it yourself:
1. Why would our Pedders bars bend end links, and the Hotchkis bars not? This should be a fairly logical question to be able to answer.

All the Hotchkis data I got directly from their web site and I included the link so you can see it and check it out yourself.

thanks
mike
dms

well that clears alot of that up. i must have missed the part that said your bars were solid. i knew the hotchkis and eibach were hollow. it makes sense to me. i just was curious what makes your better and why the price difference was there and i see it now.

so the other question, which i saw you missed was, when can i place an order and are they in stock?

also the bushing. im interested in doing a few bushings in the rear of the car. are these sold in complete sets or just sets depending on the part of the car?

Quite honestly, I would just tell the folks at Pedders what kind of driving you do or plan to do, and get whatever they say to get. :)

fast......highway......road course....

i understand how things work. im just trying to get some information from someone because i havent been able to get anything about the pedders sway bars until now. im gathering all of my information and then i will make my purchase based on that.

I apologize for us taking so long on the info. But the 32mm bar that we were testing, got stuck in customs for a very long time. We have tested quite a few bars to come up with the 3 combos that we have prepared.

If you have any questions, just ask

mike
dms

fast......highway......road course....

Yes, Yes, Yes.



mike
dms

so.....when can i order and when can i receive????

any idea???

any idea???

I guess we can take orders now. but we will officially start to market them once we know production run completion. Then we will know when they should be here in the states. Orders have been made for them. Not 100% sure on a ETA.

mike
dms

so these are made in australia too? you guys need a manufacturing facility here in the states.

so these are made in australia too? you guys need a manufacturing facility here in the states.

We have actually been investigating it. But the challenge always ends up being we require documentation of performance. Case in point, with our dampers, we require EVERY shock to be dyno tested and meet our specs. With our coils, we are 2mm variation in tolerances for height. We have been unsuccessful in finding a company here in the states that will do this. This is the #1 rule of Ron Pedders!

What is interesting, there is a fairly high end damper manufacturer that says they dyno check every shock. But that is not true. We know the company that makes their dampers here in the USA and they do not test all of their shocks!. They do a random testing only. We know this because they put in a bid to make some of our stuff, but could not check all.

The challenge, for example of hollow sway bars, not only are they approx 15% weaker than solid bars, the bending processes change the metallurgy of the bend and may be different bar to bar. This is why Ron Pedders refuses to do hollow bars, because they may not be all the same.


What we need is Scotty to get his transporter up and running so we can beam over our products. Now that would be cool.

mike
dms

We have actually been investigating it. But the challenge always ends up being we require documentation of performance. Case in point, with our dampers, we require EVERY shock to be dyno tested and meet our specs. With our coils, we are 2mm variation in tolerances for height. We have been unsuccessful in finding a company here in the states that will do this. This is the #1 rule of Ron Pedders!

What is interesting, there is a fairly high end damper manufacturer that says they dyno check every shock. But that is not true. We know the company that makes their dampers here in the USA and they do not test all of their shocks!. They do a random testing only. We know this because they put in a bid to make some of our stuff, but could not check all.

The challenge, for example of hollow sway bars, not only are they approx 15% weaker than solid bars, the bending processes change the metallurgy of the bend and may be different bar to bar. This is why Ron Pedders refuses to do hollow bars, because they may not be all the same.

This is an incredible testament to Pedders quality!

i love the stuff. and i want it. the thing that sucks is that its not here. i understand its about quality. that how we run our company too. but just like the demand for the camaro when it first came out. theres a huge demand for your products im sure. but right now you cant supply. and its frustrating to me because i dont want to buy other suspension components because all of your parts are tested together and made to interact with each other. i would do the same thing if it were eibach coil overs. i would buy all of their components and not mix and match because they are made for each other. so i guess, im here. and im gonna wait. it just sucks.

GUYS,

CHECK OUT THIS LINK IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS AS TO WHY PEDDERS SUSPENSION IS THE BEST ON THE MARKET FOR THE CAMARO

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6140850&posted=1#post6140850