GMI Rumor Mill

formula79
01-15-2003, 12:42 PM
Figured I would post this here since some people are against joing my forums to read it.



The GMI Rumor Mill!

Hello, and welcome back to the triumphant return of the GMI Rumor Mill. It has been a while since I have done one of these..so this may be lengthyJ

Chevrolet-

Often it may appear that the General’s biggest brand is getting the short end of the stick. In the next few years that will be something proven untrue. There are several things going on at the brand the Chevrolet Brothers started many moons ago…..I will now attempt to go into them..

The Chicago Auto Show-Expect this to be the place that GM’s SS utopia kicks into full swing. Debuting at this show will be both the Monte Carlo and Impala SS. Though the model year these cars will bow is uncertain, I am betting on late 2004-early 2005. The cars will be powered by the same 250-260 HP supercharged 3800 Series II V6 in the 04 Grand Prix GTP. It is unknown if the TAP-Shift version of the 4T65-E will make the cut in Chevy’s W-bodies or not since GM tries to generally keep Pontiac a step ahead of Chevrolet tech wise. Also of note is the SS models will usher in a reskin of both the Impala and Monte Carlo along the lines of the 04 Grand Prix. These cars will be short term holdovers until the new affordable RWD platform is completed for the Grand Prix around 06 (more on this later).

Also of note, I keep hearing talk of a huge surprise at the Chicago Auto Show for Chevrolet, though I am out of the loop in terms of this surprise, one can only assume that it will be some kind of C6 Concept. Ford is already showing an 05 Mustang concept, so it wouldn’t be hard to believe that GM would roll out a concept of the C6, which will tentatively bow as an 05 model.

Expect a performance version of the Cavalier within 2 years. GM perceives Honda to have a weakness in terms of factory power and is attacking this full-force by using a supercharger on the Ecotech engine. An example of this engine will be seen with the upcoming Saturn Tuner ION and a GXP version of the Sunfire. Performance numbers are said to run between 180 and 220 HP with little efficiency loss compared to the competition which uses more expensive variable valve timing based engines.

Now to everyone’s favorite subject…the Camaro. Right now no one wants to talk about the Camaro because GM is threatening jobs on the subject. When you hear people such has Mark Reuss say that there is no program for a new Camaro he is not lying…however he means a car named Camaro. History buffs will remember that the first generation Camaro project was not given the name Camaro until the last minute…and to a point was actually overshadowed/covered up by all the hype for the upcoming Chevelle redesign. I smell history repeating itself here. Another issue to be considered is that both Chevy and Pontiac will get a sedan and coupe version of the upcoming affordable RWD platform. Pontiac will have the GTO and Grand Prix, Chevy will have the Impala and ??????. This is where it gets sticky because GM will have to play an internal nameplate game in choosing between Camaro, Chevelle, and Monte Carlo. Don’t expect more than one RWD coupe in Chevy’s lineup besides the Corvette as they plan to sell 100,000+units with just one name plate.

Pontiac-


Seems Pontiac has been getting all the glory as of late. Most of the excitement has centered around the upcoming GTO, which recently debuted on the show circuit. The show car GTO’s are very hurried examples based on a mix of the previous generation (2002) cars and the all new Monaro body(2004), as evidenced by the Australian gauge cluster, single exhaust and by some accounts unmoved gas tank (I have not verified this). The production car will be based on the upcoming 04 Monaro, which has dual exhaust, revised gas tank location, and a power boost. The engine for the GTO is said to be specific to that car, and I am hedging my bets that the production version will be even more powerful. The reason I say this is because a month ago I had discussions with a GM press rep, and he told me that the production GTO had not had final horsepower numbers set, and they were still tweaking many things about the car. As we held those discussions, the show cars had been finished and on US shores for 2 months. In short don’t believe that the 340HP number as the end point for 2004 GTO power, I am expecting the final number to be closer to 360HP expected for the IV Gen V8. Pontiac did something similar with the 04 Grand Prix initially setting HP at 250, then increasing it to 260HP as testing and development progressed.

The next generation GTO will be built in North America alongside the Pontiac Grand Prix. Both cars will ride on a new chassis that will essentially be the mating of the luxury Sigma Platform and the current V-car platform. The biggest change to Sigma will be the addition V-car type suspension components. The RWD Grand Prix has already been under development for a year as a 4-door version of the new platform, with the GTO being planned as the 2 door model. Expect the GTO to remain fairly exclusive, with the Grand Prix having models to fit a wide cost range, much like now with the price difference between the base GT and expensive GTP Comp G. These cars should be ready by 2006.

The Pontiac G6 show car was little more than a thinly disguised 05 Grand Am, essentially the equivalent of the G-Force show car to the 04 Grand Prix. The new Grand Am will be a major step upscale for Pontiac. While it’s Epsilon platform sister the Malibu will see plebian duty as Chevy’s affordable people hauler, Grand Am will take the platforms abilities to the limit. The showstopper will be a retractable hardtop coupe that will feature AWD, a 6-speed manual, and a forced induction V6 making somewhere between 260 and 300HP. This car was expected to be Pontiac’s new halo car pre GTO, so prices will approach the mid $30K’s loaded. Take away some options and you will go down to the sedan which looks much like the G6 that in base for will cover the affordable market the current Grand Am Covers.

The Solstice is green-lighted and will ride on a new small RWD architecture that will be shared with the Saturn Sky and Buick Bengal. I expect this “new” platform to be a mix of Delta and off the shelf GM parts much like the show car. Developing an all-new chassis will cost too much for GM to keep the cars at their projected price point. Also the name Solstice may be dumped in favor of Firebird or Sunfire.

Pontiac’s future in the economy car market at this point is uncertain. I am unsure of any plans to replace the current Sunfire after it dies in 2005.



Well that wraps it up for part one of this update. As with anything I post, I warn you this post may include use of grammer and spelling that may offend some:)

!

luis nunez
01-15-2003, 12:53 PM
Gm really needs a new Camaro..... they are looking kind of lossers with the next Mustang out and no Camaro.:mad:

Darth Xed
01-15-2003, 12:58 PM
My thoughts... for what they are worth anyway...

1) If Chevy is going to have only one 4-place RWD coupe, and it is going to be that closely related to Impala, it chould not be called Camaro, unless the arcitechure is significantly altered from what is used on Impala... Monte Carlo or Chevelle fits this description far better than Camaro. But, the light at the end of the tunnel is how flexible I keep hearing GM's new platforms are, so maybe there is still hope there...

2) The new Grand Am sounds like it might be a nice car... but slapping a nameplate known to be one step higher than an entry level car on a vehicle whose price tag can reach the mid $30k's is not a great move, IMO...

3) If the next gen Grand Prix and GTO are to be so closely related.... perhaps this is a reason why the 04 GTO has so much Grand Prix front fascia flavoring to it???

formula79
01-15-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Darth Xed
My thoughts... for what they are worth anyway...

1) If Chevy is going to have only one 4-place RWD coupe, and it is going to be that closely related to Impala, it chould not be called Camaro, unless the arcitechure is significantly altered from what is used on Impala... Monte Carlo or Chevelle fits this description far better than Camaro. But, the light at the end of the tunnel is how flexible I keep hearing GM's new platforms are, so maybe there is still hope there...


Wasn't the 1st Gen Camaro a shortened A-body? no one would guess that the DEW Mustang was related to a Lincoln Sedan.

Darth Xed
01-15-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by formula79
Wasn't the 1st Gen Camaro a shortened A-body? no one would guess that the DEW Mustang was related to a Lincoln Sedan.

The first Gen was Nova-based... not sure if Nova was A-Body (Chevelle, right) based? (Or am I havig a brain-freeze here? :o )

Good point about the DEW Mustang... Is the 05 Mustang definately back on the Lincon LS platform? I thought it was on and off for a while there... :confused:

I guess my feelings are, call it Camaro... if you can really make a Camaro from it... if it ends up being more of a Monte Carlo... call it so.

Z284ever
01-15-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Darth Xed
The first Gen was Nova-based... not sure if Nova was A-Body (Chevelle, right) based? (Or am I havig a brain-freeze here? :o )

Good point about the DEW Mustang... Is the 05 Mustang definately back on the Lincon LS platform? I thought it was on and off for a while there... :confused:

I guess my feelings are, call it Camaro... if you can really make a Camaro from it... if it ends up being more of a Monte Carlo... call it so.

The Nova was an X-body. This unit body platform was already being developed for the '68 Nova when the F-body got it one year before Nova.

ronssito
01-15-2003, 03:08 PM
Thanks for the great update.



I thought the GMI registration requirement was dropped?

:confused:

formula79
01-15-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by ronssito
Thanks for the great update.



I thought the GMI registration requirement was dropped?

:confused:

I did untill I launched the new site with new forums. Now everything is integrated and the frontpage updates off the news forums:)

ronssito
01-15-2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by formula79
I did untill I launched the new site with new forums. Now everything is integrated and the frontpage updates off the news forums:)

Thanks...I'll check it out!

:) :D :bow:

kizz
01-15-2003, 03:51 PM
:eek: Branden, something just hit home that I hadn't realized before:

Solstice RWD

GTO RWD

Grand Prix RWD

Grand Am AWD

Am I right in assuming that these cars will all be offered concurrently? Wow. I've always been a Pontiac guy. There may be something to be thankful for after all the current calamity.

PacerX
01-15-2003, 04:03 PM
One observation in the otherwise great commentary above is flat-out wrong.

Solstice will NOT share any major componentry with Delta. It CAN'T. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

RWD platforms ARE NOT COMPATIBLE with FWD platforms.

Sixer-Bird
01-15-2003, 04:19 PM
This is where it gets sticky because GM will have to play an internal nameplate game in choosing between Camaro, Chevelle, and Monte Carlo. Don’t expect more than one RWD coupe in Chevy’s lineup besides the Corvette as they plan to sell 100,000+units with just one name plate.

So there is probably no chance that a RWD Monte Carlo and a smaller, sportier RWD 2+2 Camaro could co-exist?

phantasm99
01-15-2003, 04:39 PM
Now to everyone’s favorite subject…the Camaro. Right now no one wants to talk about the Camaro because GM is threatening jobs on the subject.

I don't know about you guy's but I am so damned sick and tired of all this.....GM makes the choice to kill the car and we are the ones kept in the dark. :rolleyes:
I have heard time and time again that many things came into play with the decision to kill the F-Body.Once again allot of speculation with few answers.There seems to be a bit of a "Cloak and Dagger" attitude surounding the car as well.

When you hear people such has Mark Reuss say that there is no program for a new Camaro he is not lying…however he means a car named Camaro.

:rolleyes:
Nice way to back up your enthusiast GM.
I love my Camaro it's the corporation I can't stand!!

WERM
01-15-2003, 05:19 PM
The RWD Grand Prix has already been under development for a year as a 4-door version of the new platform, with the GTO being planned as the 2 door model. Expect the GTO to remain fairly exclusive...

...The showstopper will be a retractable hardtop coupe that will feature AWD, a 6-speed manual, and a forced induction V6 making somewhere between 260 and 300HP. This car was expected to be Pontiac’s new halo car pre GTO, so prices will approach the mid $30K’s loaded. Take away some options and you will go down to the sedan which looks much like the G6 that in base for will cover the affordable market the current Grand Am Covers.


I hope I'm not seeing a trend of:

4 door = Cheaper
2 door = More expensive

That would Suck.

jg95z28
01-15-2003, 05:28 PM
Another issue to be considered is that both Chevy and Pontiac will get a sedan and coupe version of the upcoming affordable RWD platform. Pontiac will have the GTO and Grand Prix, Chevy will have the Impala and ??????. This is where it gets sticky because GM will have to play an internal nameplate game in choosing between Camaro, Chevelle, and Monte Carlo. Don’t expect more than one RWD coupe in Chevy’s lineup besides the Corvette as they plan to sell 100,000+units with just one name plate.

I hate to say it, but, since GM has previously discussed a Chevelle SS by 2004 or 2005, and considering previously the GTO and Chevelle were sister cars... I wouldn't hold my breath hoping its called "Camaro".

Not that a Chevy version of the next gen GTO would be a "bad" thing.

And as previously mentioned, the 1st gen F-bodies were definitely not based on the A-bodies.

guionM
01-15-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by phantasm99
I don't know about you guy's but I am so damned sick and tired of all this.....GM makes the choice to kill the car and we are the ones kept in the dark. :rolleyes:
I have heard time and time again that many things came into play with the decision to kill the F-Body.Once again allot of speculation with few answers.There seems to be a bit of a "Cloak and Dagger" attitude surounding the car as well.



:rolleyes:
Nice way to back up your enthusiast GM.
I love my Camaro it's the corporation I can't stand!!

I'll just say (as one of GM's formerly biggest critics on this subject), they really can't talk about it, and they do have a really good reason for it.

To get a good idea, look up Doug's post. Without going into it, his post is pretty dead on as to the secrecy reasons surrounding the use of Camaro's name.

There are separate reasons as to why GM killed the f-body, why they can't talk about it, and what's going on with a potential sports coupe. They aren't all lumped under one reason, they are all different subjects.

The "trust & have faith" comments used to grind on my nerves & rub me the wrong way as no doubt it does to alot of people. But, it will make alot of sense when it does eventially come out.

I suspect it would make a really good book once everything plays out.
;)

!!!TED!!!
01-16-2003, 04:28 AM
Thanks for shedding some light GuionM :confused: :D

305fan
01-16-2003, 03:11 PM
This really disturbed me----dropping the name Solistice and calling it Sunfire of Firebird???

1---it looks nothing like the Sunfire and is RWD---this woud confuse people and insult the RWD Sunfire (solistice owners)
Sunfire does not have a good rep and this is not the way to fix it.

2. Way too small to be a Firebird and no V8.

I seriously hope these rumours are totally without any basis in fact---although knowing GM--it's hard to put even this past them.


Otherwise, I really look forward to the Solsitce--give a coupe with a 6 speed and blown Eco-tec please!

Z28x
01-16-2003, 07:39 PM
I hope they make a Solctice based coupe and sedan. My biggest complant about econoboxes isn't that they have a I4 it is that they are FWD.

A RWD, Caviler sized, Solctice based Sedan, with a 180HP VVT Ecotec would make a good second car.

God know we could use some inexpensive RWD cars.

0toinsanein5.4sec
01-17-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by guionM
I suspect it would make a really good book once everything plays out.
;) [/B]

All Camaros are Red ;)

Anyways, i like basically all of it except the name for the Solstice. I don't get why Solstice is such a bad name for a car, i really like it.
Sunfire would kill it before the beginning of production. To me Sunfire says cheap, slow, econobox that is ugly.
Firebird: No they wouldnt, that is going too far. Dont get me wrong, ive liked the solstice ever since it was unveiled, but it is not a Firebird, nothing on it says Firebird.

GM KEEP THE NAME SOLSTICE. DO NOT CHANGE THE NAME TO SUNFIRE OR FIREBIRD!!!

Darth Xed
01-17-2003, 11:10 PM
Just think... with Solstice and Equinox, GM will have a vehicle for all seasons... literally! ;)

poSSum
01-18-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Darth Xed
Just think... with Solstice and Equinox, GM will have a vehicle for all seasons... literally! ;)

:D :D