If this happens, GM is not worth saving.

http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/45059772.html

"Reports out of Washington say GM is considering manufacturing more cars abroad, then importing them for sale in the US. It could save money by taking the American worker out of the equation. "

This is nothing more than a continuation and/or acceleration of what's been going on for years.

How many cars from GM are imported right now? Canada... Mexico... Australia... just add China to the list.

:mad::(:death:

There's a few threads already on this. There was a story late yesterday in which Fritz said it made more sense to build cars where you sell them and if the UAW was willing to make more concessions then GM might be able to build more cars here.

Think its all posturing to try to make the best deals possible for GM moving forward. I would wait until all is said and done before determining just how many vehicles will be build in North America, and how many will be imported.

There's a few threads already on this.

Links are nice. Like this:

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686968

Related rant: WILX (the NBC affiliate whose site is listed above, and who happens to be my local NBC affiliate) sucks for news. They don't do any research or report on any expert opinions -- they just gloss over whatever their source told them in a sentence or two, and then interview locals and ask what they think. :irk:

How else is GM supposed to cut costs? They can't charge more for their cars made by American workers, almost no one would pay more for that. No matter what others would claim, when it comes right down to it, people won't put their money on the line.

This is a non story.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090508/AUTO01/905080456/1148/auto01/GM+predicts+2+million+U.S.+sales+in++09++will+impo rt+cars+from+China+in+2011

GM imports would go from 33% in the US to 34% by 2014. 50k cars from China in 2014. Why is this news?

Why is this news?

Because anytime an American auto manufacturer (particularly one that is currently operating thanks to the U.S. taxpayers) decides to start importing cars built in China to sell here, it is and rightfully should be news. It may be a small number, but GM has not done this until now.

The ironic thing is though, people will say "I'm not buying a GM car because it is imported" and then go out and buy another imported car.

The ironic thing is though, people will say "I'm not buying a GM car because it is imported" and then go out and buy another imported car.

Well you have "domestics" being built internationally and international brands being built locally. Take your pick.

Well you have "domestics" being built internationally and international brands being built locally. Take your pick.

Just goes to show how complicated the industry is today. "Outsourcing" is critical to survival in the industry today. If GM plans on avoiding it completely, GM won't be around in the future. It is precisely this issue that has me worried about the UAW having a substantial interest (or controlling interest in the case of Chrysler) in managing the company. UAW will dig its head in the sand and say "no way." The company will come crashing down around them and they wont be able to do anything about it.

Because anytime an American auto manufacturer (particularly one that is currently operating thanks to the U.S. taxpayers) decides to start importing cars built in China to sell here, it is and rightfully should be news. It may be a small number, but GM has not done this until now.

An import is an import. GM has been importing cars for a while. Why does China make the difference? Like I said, 33% of the cars GM sales in the US are imported. Are we going to care if in the next 5 years that number goes to 34% and China is on the list of where it came from? I am actually surprised that this didn't happen sooner.

Why does China make the difference?

Because by their own federal law, China doesn't import any manufactured goods. Everything used in China is manufactured in China. It's uneven, and therefore unfair.

I don't believe it will end with 34%. Just keep telling yourself it will stop there. As it said in the article "It could save money by taking the American worker out of the equation". Why stop at 34%?

I bought a 2007 Honda Odyssey that was assembled in the US. 75% of it was manufactured here. It is funny (sad) that you have to buy a foreign car to get one built in the US as someone else said.

I agree that this is a global economy. More that 50% of GM sales are foreign sales. That means more than 50% of GM's business relies on someone buying a foreign car.

My point is this. We the TAXPAYER are pumping billions of dollars into GM to keep them alive in order to help keep main street America employed. This sure as hell is not what is happening.

Because by their own federal law, China doesn't import any manufactured goods. Everything used in China is manufactured in China. It's uneven, and therefore unfair.

I fly international freight for a living. I fly into and out of Hong Kong a few times a month. My airplane is always empty flying in and packed to the gills on the way out.

An import is an import. GM has been importing cars for a while. Why does China make the difference? Like I said, 33% of the cars GM sales in the US are imported. Are we going to care if in the next 5 years that number goes to 34% and China is on the list of where it came from? I am actually surprised that this didn't happen sooner.

It's because right now, selling out to China is passé. It's one thing for your neighbor to go out and buy a Toyota or Volkswagen...But for your favorite Red White and Blue car company to start sliding revenue to the biggest automotive ripoff artists in the world who are also one of the largest threats to our economy...that's when things get touchy.

Prejudices run deep, and they vary from political, geographical, racial, stylistic, and more. I see a lot of America's wealth going to China and it makes me very uneasy. Other countries like Canada, Australia, Mexico--we're partners in crime, really, blokes all after the same cause and none of them are really gunning to become a world super-power like China.

Because by their own federal law, China doesn't import any manufactured goods. Everything used in China is manufactured in China. It's uneven, and therefore unfair.

Most countries have similar laws. And China does import somethings, they are just taxed higher. Write your congressman if you want it changed, don't blame GM.

I don't believe it will end with 34%. Just keep telling yourself it will stop there. As it said in the article "It could save money by taking the American worker out of the equation". Why stop at 34%?

I bought a 2007 Honda Odyssey that was assembled in the US. 75% of it was manufactured here. It is funny (sad) that you have to buy a foreign car to get on built in the US as someone else said.

I agree that this is a global economy. More that 50% of GM sales are foreign sales. That means more than 50% of GM's business relies on someone buying a foreign car.

My point is this. We the TAXPAYER are pumping billions of dollars into GM to keep them alive in order to help keep main street America employed. This sure as hell is not what is happening.

I don't pretend to think that the number will stay at 34%. The number will fluctuate with the demand for cars, types of cars people want, and exchange rates. Also, the quote about taking the American worker out of the equation

67% of cars sold in the US by GM are made here. I am not sure why you have a foreign car to have it made here. Because that 67% number means nothing apparently.

Finally, would it make sense for the taxpayers to fund the company, then have it go bankrupt again because it was building cars in the US and losing money doing so?

And, funding GM and Chrysler is keeping people employed. While there have been some cuts, and likely to be more with the dealerships going away, there are many more jobs that would have been gone for a few months now if GM had gone under.

GM May Trim Imports ‘Substantially’ in UAW Talks (http://http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ajybcNSH36tI&refer=home)

Standard union negotiation tactics, nothing to see here...

It's because right now, selling out to China is passé. It's one thing for your neighbor to go out and buy a Toyota or Volkswagen...But for your favorite Red White and Blue car company to start sliding revenue to the biggest automotive ripoff artists in the world who are also one of the largest threats to our economy...that's when things get touchy.
Prejudices run deep, and they vary from political, geographical, racial, stylistic, and more. I see a lot of America's wealth going to China and it makes me very uneasy. Other countries like Canada, Australia, Mexico--we're partners in crime, really, blokes all after the same cause and none of them are really gunning to become a world super-power like China.

thank you...:yes:

If Americans want jobs then they should be willing to work for $1 an hour like in developing countries. ;)

67% of cars sold in the US by GM are made here.

I think you mean assembled here. How many of the parts come from other countries (Mexico, China etc...)

I bought my Odyssey because none of the big three could touch it in options and quality IMO. I was pleasantly surprised to find that 75% of it was manufactured here and ultimately assembled here. That is a statistic that many GM cars would probably find hard to match.

Also, sorry for the duplicate thread. I was so hot when I read this that I failed to notice the other thread.

WAKE UP, PEOPLE!

Why do some of you folks have a blinkered view of life, the economy and cars?

How is GM different to another great American company, HP, for example? HP develops software in India and China, employs Indians and Chinese to improve its cost margins in preference to Westerners like me. Yes I have to compete with them in the market place, in my own country... probably because it's easier than to invest in education and improve the 'skills shortage' problem.

We are a global economy. No company is immune to costs pressures (except oil companies but that's another story). Companies will continue to find cost savings and the term "Made in China" is a mere formality.

Ford may be the bright hope for American automobile manufacturing, but how will Ford compete with the other car manufacturers when Chinese cars begin to grow in popularity, improve in quality and are cheaper to run? That's the future we face and I recall the same arguments about Japanese cars. If you can't remember the time of the cheap Japanese car, maybe the Korean car will strike a chord.

Maybe these comment from Fritz add perspective...

Q. With so much US taxpayer support, why shouldn’t the government demand you reopen US plants and get US workers working again vs. non-US plants (i.e. Mexico)? (Wes Winn)

Wes, first of all the loan money we’ve received from the US government is in fact going toward our US operations. But the government also recognizes that we are a global company, and that it makes sense to build where we sell - and to use the profits from those local operations to boost production in those regions when market conditions demand it. We don’t only do business in the United States, we don’t only collect revenue in the United States, and for the long-term health of our business we need to continue to make business decisions based on business sense. That said, the percentage of our vehicles sold in the US that are also built in the US will remain virtually the same in the coming years as it is today. Our intention is to keep our US manufacturing capability in line with US market conditions - as the economy improves and the auto market returns to more normal levels, our manufacturing here in the US will keep pace.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/gm-ceo-i-promise-you-we-have-new-vehicles-will-blow-you-away-79371/

WAKE UP, PEOPLE!

Why do some of you folks have a blinkered view of life, the economy and cars?

How is GM different to another great American company, HP, for example? HP develops software in India and China, employs Indians and Chinese to improve its cost margins in preference to Westerners like me. Yes I have to compete with them in the market place, in my own country... probably because it's easier than to invest in education and improve the 'skills shortage' problem.

We are a global economy. No company is immune to costs pressures (except oil companies but that's another story). Companies will continue to find cost savings and the term "Made in China" is a mere formality.

Ford may be the bright hope for American automobile manufacturing, but how will Ford compete with the other car manufacturers when Chinese cars begin to grow in popularity, improve in quality and are cheaper to run? That's the future we face and I recall the same arguments about Japanese cars. If you can't remember the time of the cheap Japanese car, maybe the Korean car will strike a chord.

HP is not taking taxpayer dollars!

The big three came to Washington and hung 3 million jobs over the head of our government. So our govt gives in and agrees to keep them alive with billions of taxpayers dollars. Money my children will have to pay back to China and others. Now that they got their money they are going to farm more work to foreign countries?!?!? I have about had it......

Chrysler has announced that as part of their bankruptcy, they are not going to repay their loan to the govt. WTF!!?! Not only that, they want more money from the taxpayer. You can bet the farm that GM is going to do the same thing. They will declare bankruptcy and get out of paying back the billions owed to us. Oh sure. 30 billion dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to the bank bailout. Who is going to notice it? :mad:

What I want to know is how foriegn car makers can make cars here profitably, but american car makers cannot.

Yes..I am being sarcasic...we all know why.

HP is not taking taxpayer dollars!

Imagine if GM had've made moves around the same time that HP and other notable companies (IT, Finance industry etc...) began offshoring work... they wouldn't be begging for tax dollars to stay alive.

The auto industry in America has been the most faithful to American workers... until now. The other industries turned their backs on American workers and offshored work to India and China many moons ago... and are profitable for doing so.

Not hard to imagine that GM, Chrysler and Ford would have made billions in profits if they followed the same path as other industries. Price of loyalty? Maybe. But in a global and business context, a bad business decision not to offshore work a long time ago! :mad:

I'm keen to read your response this time! :yes:

Imagine if GM had've made moves around the same time that HP and other notable companies (IT, Finance industry etc...) began offshoring work... they wouldn't be begging for tax dollars to stay alive.

The auto industry in America has been the most faithful to American workers... until now. The other industries turned their backs on American workers and offshored work to India and China many moons ago... and are profitable for doing so.

Not hard to imagine that GM, Chrysler and Ford would have made billions in profits if they followed the same path as other industries. Price of loyalty? Maybe. But in a global and business context, a bad business decision not to offshore work a long time ago! :mad:

I'm keen to read your response this time! :yes:


Coulda, shoulda, woulda...

I don't think you are getting my point. I don't care what they could have done. I care about the fact that they got all this money from the taxpayers. Money that was given to keep more Americans employed. Now not only are they shipping more jobs overseas, they are using bankruptcy to get out of paying us back. Absolutely criminal in my eyes.

This is a pun on Wall Mart but it has some relevance here:

http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart

Coulda, shoulda, woulda...

I don't think you are getting my point. I don't care what they could have done. I care about the fact that they got all this money from the taxpayers. Money that was given to keep more Americans employed. Now not only are they shipping more jobs overseas, they are using bankruptcy to get out of paying us back. Absolutely criminal in my eyes.

This is a pun on Wall Mart but it has some relevance here:

http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart

Ohhh quit your grandstanding like you really care. Acting as such is so prevalent and popular in our society today. If you really really cared, you would have bought a vehicle manufactured in the US from a US based company.

American's are the criminals of our economic melt down, yet it's always someone else's fault but not certainly your own.

Feel the irony here, one buys a vehicle from a foreign company that employs 30k Americans just on the sole premise that it assembled here. Yet don't support companies that assemble, by a multiple factor, vehicles in the US and the companies are US based. These same companies have existed here for over a century that currently employ a factor of many times more Americans and have employed and provided a way of life for millions of Americans over the last 100 years. Still today the domestics assemble more vehicles on US soil than the foreign makes. Toyota in 2008 imported 45% of it's total North American sales from Asia, 1.5 million vehicles. Mind you this doesn't factor in units produced in Mexico or Canada. So the actual percentage and number imported into the US is higher yet. This has been going and increasing in total units for decades! Toyota gets a free pass on the fact they "assemble vehicles" here. Where was the concern then about keeping jobs here? So please continue to gloss over the real facts that support your falsely trumped up case "it's assembled here" and that's all that really matters. Millions of American's that have lost their jobs, or are in the process of losing their jobs really appreciate your continued support of foreign companies.

I don't buy any NEW cars in US. Only used with American brand nameplate and fix them. They run good! Also, there is a Buel in my future(made in America!). Det_3 are done here. Yes, worked in the Auto_Ind for years as a Salary Engineer, and, the majority of the UAW trades made more cash than I. Oh well... US people don't like the American nameplate. Sorry, "friends don't let friends buy Japanese or German brand nameplate." I do have a 97ss that's blown and injected! Porche owners don't like me. B.

Ohhh quit your grandstanding like you really care. Acting as such is so prevalent and popular in our society today. If you really really cared, you would have bought a vehicle manufactured in the US from a US based company.

American's are the criminals of our economic melt down, yet it's always someone else's fault but not certainly your own.

Feel the irony here, one buys a vehicle from a foreign company that employs 30k Americans just on the sole premise that it assembled here. Yet don't support companies that assemble, by a multiple factor, vehicles in the US and the companies are US based. These same companies have existed here for over a century that currently employ a factor of many times more Americans and have employed and provided a way of life for millions of Americans over the last 100 years. Still today the domestics assemble more vehicles on US soil than the foreign makes. Toyota in 2008 imported 45% of it's total North American sales from Asia, 1.5 million vehicles. Mind you this doesn't factor in units produced in Mexico or Canada. So the actual percentage and number imported into the US is higher yet. This has been going and increasing in total units for decades! Toyota gets a free pass on the fact they "assemble vehicles" here. Where was the concern then about keeping jobs here? So please continue to gloss over the real facts that support your falsely trumped up case "it's assembled here" and that's all that really matters. Millions of American's that have lost their jobs, or are in the process of losing their jobs really appreciate your continued support of foreign companies.

Grandstanding? I am just voicing my opinions on a public forum.

As to my purchase of a foreign vehicle. I have always purchased American made vehicles. Mostly all GM with the exception of a couple of Fords. When I went car shopping for a minivan for my family I really wanted to buy American. However IMO none of them came close to the Odyssey. Was I supposed to buy a lesser vehicle for the same money? I don't think so. I did not buy it because it was assembled here. I bought it because it was a superior product. I only found out after I made my decision to buy it that it was assembled here. My in laws had the chevy venture and it was nothing but a headache for them. I have had my Honda for 1-1/2 years now and it has been a great car.

Isn't it ironic that GM's most profitable market is in China? As I said before, more than 50% of GM's sales are in foreign countries. That means GM's very existence relies on someone buying a foreign car. So who his the hypocrite telling me to 'Buy American'.

Grandstanding? I am just voicing my opinions on a public forum.
...
However IMO none of them came close to the Odyssey. Was I supposed to buy a lesser vehicle for the same money? I don't think so...


You are absolutely right about the minivans, especially from GM. They basically gave up on them when you look at the competition.

But, if GM doesn't make moves like this, all they would have are lesser vehicles for the same money. GM is trying to stay competitive in the marketplace. GM will continue to build vehicles here that it can. GM is going to be looking at smaller vehicles for imports from China.

The taxpayer argument means nothing unless you want GM to be liquidated because they can't make decisions that would keep them competitive. I guess loaning them money, having the company be liquidated and no jobs saved is a good thing for you.

I guess loaning them money, having the company be liquidated and no jobs saved is a good thing for you.


That is the last thing I want to happen. I have several family members that work for GM.

I believe that GM can be profitable manufacturing cars in the US. No doubt that the GM let the UAW run wild and drive up the cost of building cars. I used to shake my head when I saw my father in law get paid $60K for sitting at home. He was a skilled trade and they moved his job to Flint. He decided not to move and the UAW contract guaranteed him a full salary as long as he was a full time student. I love the guy but YGTBSM!

The taxpayer bailout is a hot button for me. I wanted GM to do it on their own (Bankruptcy etc..) GM said bankruptcy was certain death so the govt gave in and gave them the loans. Now it looks like they are going to file for bankruptcy anyways and will probably get out of paying the loans back (like Chrysler). I just feel like they stole from all of us and now they are going to send more jobs overseas.

This is a non story.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090508/AUTO01/905080456/1148/auto01/GM+predicts+2+million+U.S.+sales+in++09++will+impo rt+cars+from+China+in+2011

GM imports would go from 33% in the US to 34% by 2014. 50k cars from China in 2014. Why is this news?

To a very large extent, you are right. GM vehicles made outside the US won't change much. By the looks of things, GM is moving Canadian and mexican production numbers to Korea and China. GM truck production seems to be moving from Canada to the US and Mexico, which accounts for a huge number of vehicles. That number is offsent by the number of cars coming from across the Pacific.

Overall, from the point of US production, it's a wash.

If you're Canadian, or even Mexican, there is very real cause for concern.

However IMO none of them came close to the Odyssey. Was I supposed to buy a lesser vehicle for the same money?

My dad and sister-in-law both have Odysseys. I have borrowed both on various occasions to haul large amounts of people/stuff.

One is a 1999, and one is a 2000. I have also ridden briefly in a newer one -- 2006, I think, and it did not address most of my complaints. It's possible that my complaints have been resolved already by the newer models, but I know that the magazines have been heaping praise on the Odyssey since the '99s came out (at which point it stopped being that goofy wagon-van thing). They've certainly updated the interior, but that was never one of my complaints.

I hate them. Aside from being enormous inside (which is generally true of all modern minivans) and having a nice ride/handling balance, they are simply awful.

My biggest complaints:

The throttle tip-in makes it nearly impossible to drive smoothly.
The engine lacks low-end torque, which is a must for any large vehicle IMO.
The transmission takes WAY too long to downshift.
The seats are awful, and the further back you go, the worse they get.

Both the '99 and the 2000 have required unreasonably frequent repairs for stupid little stuff, and invariably the parts are only available at the dealer and only for big money. Example:

A while back, the 2000 was making an awful rubbing noise whenever you turned left with a decent amount of speed (i.e. when the suspension compresses). That sound was very much like when tires rub when turned to lock. It turned out that the strap that holds the battery down had broken and the battery was tipping over. The replacement part, as I recall, was nearly $100. :irk:

A few smaller complaints:

The latching mechanism on the second-row seats is a pain. Even moreso when putting the seats back in.

Removing the head restraints from the third row before you collapse it into the floor is a pain too. Most owners I've heard from remove them and never put them back on.

The cruise control calibration is annoying. With the cruise set at 45 on a hilly road, your speed will vary between 38 and 46, and when it gets down to 38, the damn thing will mash the gas and downshift to speed back up.

It's been a few months since I last drove one. I'm sure that if it were more recent, I'd have even more to complain about.

In summary, Odysseys suck and I don't understand what all of the hype is about.

/rant

Because by their own federal law, China doesn't import any manufactured goods. Everything used in China is manufactured in China. It's uneven, and therefore unfair.

BS. We supply to China, not USA but a German product. Filtration systems for Wind Turbines.

Now maybe there's a loophole in the law that if the product isn't or can't be mfg in China that they can import, that I don't know...

My dad and sister-in-law both have Odysseys. I have borrowed both on various occasions to haul large amounts of people/stuff.

One is a 1999, and one is a 2000. I have also ridden briefly in a newer one -- 2006, I think, and it did not address most of my complaints. It's possible that my complaints have been resolved already by the newer models, but I know that the magazines have been heaping praise on the Odyssey since the '99s came out (at which point it stopped being that goofy wagon-van thing). They've certainly updated the interior, but that was never one of my complaints.

I hate them. Aside from being enormous inside (which is generally true of all modern minivans) and having a nice ride/handling balance, they are simply awful.

My biggest complaints:

The throttle tip-in makes it nearly impossible to drive smoothly.
The engine lacks low-end torque, which is a must for any large vehicle IMO.
The transmission takes WAY too long to downshift.
The seats are awful, and the further back you go, the worse they get.

Both the '99 and the 2000 have required unreasonably frequent repairs for stupid little stuff, and invariably the parts are only available at the dealer and only for big money. Example:

A while back, the 2000 was making an awful rubbing noise whenever you turned left with a decent amount of speed (i.e. when the suspension compresses). That sound was very much like when tires rub when turned to lock. It turned out that the strap that holds the battery down had broken and the battery was tipping over. The replacement part, as I recall, was nearly $100. :irk:

A few smaller complaints:

The latching mechanism on the second-row seats is a pain. Even moreso when putting the seats back in.

Removing the head restraints from the third row before you collapse it into the floor is a pain too. Most owners I've heard from remove them and never put them back on.

The cruise control calibration is annoying. With the cruise set at 45 on a hilly road, your speed will vary between 38 and 46, and when it gets down to 38, the damn thing will mash the gas and downshift to speed back up.

It's been a few months since I last drove one. I'm sure that if it were more recent, I'd have even more to complain about.

In summary, Odysseys suck and I don't understand what all of the hype is about.

/rant

Funny. I guess that's your opinion which of course you are entitled to.

So far I have been very pleased with my Odyssey. I have the EX-L which is the navigation/entertainment(DVD for kids) setup. The only thing that has needed repair was the DVD player. It would play, but would not eject. That was fixed under warranty. The ride is very good. The fuel economy is also very good. My engine shuts off the rear bank of cylinders in cruise. I got 27 mpg on a trip to Mackinaw last summer. It also has lots of pep (244 HP). Floor it from a standstill and you will get wheel spin. My only complaint I had was the armrest seemed to be in a bad position. I got used to it so now even that isn't a problem.

I test drove the Caravan and the Venture. Neither were as nice as the Odyssey IMO. You hate Odysseys? Fine don't buy one.

WAKE UP, PEOPLE!

Why do some of you folks have a blinkered view of life, the economy and cars?

How is GM different to another great American company, HP, for example? HP develops software in India and China, employs Indians and Chinese to improve its cost margins in preference to Westerners like me.
Perhaps the difference is that HP doesn't throw "Mom & Apple Pie & buy American" commercials in our face.

Maybe it's because we (the U.S.) didn't give billions to HP so that it could move production to a country that would like nothing more than to destroy the U.S. politically (or with a nuclear warhead if necessary).

BS. We supply to China, not USA but a German product. Filtration systems for Wind Turbines.

Now maybe there's a loophole in the law that if the product isn't or can't be mfg in China that they can import, that I don't know...

Other countries can supply parts, but the final product has to be assembled there.

Maybe it's because we (the U.S.) didn't give billions to HP so that it could move production to a country that would like nothing more than to destroy the U.S. politically (or with a nuclear warhead if necessary).

This is VERY true. China considers the US a necessary evil. When they outgrow us things will get interesting.

I find threads like this very ironic. Considering the fact that this board is devoted to cars made in Canada, I fail to see why you're all deciding to freak out now because GM is deciding to make more cars abroad...

I am confused by this post.

The OP is basically saying GM is not worth saving if they import cars from China, yet he owns a Toyota and is extrmely proud of it?

I read a lot of thispost , but granted, not all, because I got bored reading about minivans, but this is a bit on the hypocritical side, no? :shrug:

Or is this one of those situations where they get a pass because this particular Japanese vehcile is assembled in the United States? :o

I am confused by this post.

The OP is basically saying GM is not worth saving if they import cars from China, yet he owns a Toyota and is extrmely proud of it?

I read a lot of thispost , but granted, not all, because I got bored reading about minivans, but this is a bit on the hypocritical side, no? :shrug:

Or is this one of those situations where they get a pass because this particular Japanese vehcile is assembled in the United States? :o

There's a lot of ironies I see in this thread, from the OP (you can buy a Caravan built in Missouri, though I could not find the North American parts content) to SSbaby defending GM moving production to China even though he rails against Wall Street for "selling everyone out" and attempting to make profits as well....

Did they ever get the Odyssey transmission problems resolved?

I am confused by this post.

The OP is basically saying GM is not worth saving if they import cars from China, yet he owns a Toyota and is extrmely proud of it?

I read a lot of thispost , but granted, not all, because I got bored reading about minivans, but this is a bit on the hypocritical side, no? :shrug:

Or is this one of those situations where they get a pass because this particular Japanese vehcile is assembled in the United States? :o

Yeah... You need to read the thread. First off it is a Honda, not a Toyota. Not only is it assembled here, 75% of it is manufactured here. That is important IMO.

The main issue I have is that the 'Big 3' held 3 million jobs over our heads and was a major reason for the govt giving them the billions of dollars to stay in business. Now that they have the money they want to ship those jobs to China and elsewhere. To top it all off, they are getting out of repaying those loans through bankruptcy and have to nerve to ask for more.

Did they ever get the Odyssey transmission problems resolved?

Yes. They did a redesign of the transmission for the 2007 model year.

Yeah... You need to read the thread. First off it is a Honda, not a Toyota. Not only is it assembled here, 75% of it is manufactured here. That is important IMO.

The main issue I have is that the 'Big 3' held 3 million jobs over our heads and was a major reason for the govt giving them the billions of dollars to stay in business. Now that they have the money they want to ship those jobs to China and elsewhere. To top it all off, they are getting out of repaying those loans through bankruptcy and have to nerve to ask for more.


So, this applies then, I take it:


Or is this one of those situations where they get a pass because this particular Japanese vehcile is assembled in the United States? :o

:lol:

So, this applies then, I take it:



:lol:

This article is a few years old, but it was written around the time my car was built. I am sure things have not changed much since then. As you can see, my car is more 'American' than many domestics. Yes the Big 3 employ more people than Honda, Toyota etc., but the line is definitely getting blurry in the domestic/import debate.

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2006/09/24/made_in_america_hard_to_tell/

Again this is NOT my original gripe. The bailout/moving jobs overseas issue is.

This article is a few years old, but it was written around the time my car was built. I am sure things have not changed much since then. As you can see, my car is more 'American' than many domestics. Yes the Big 3 employ more people than Honda, Toyota etc., but the line is definitely getting blurry in the domestic/import debate.

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2006/09/24/made_in_america_hard_to_tell/

Again this is NOT my original gripe. The bailout/moving jobs overseas issue is.

This issue has been covered quite a bit here... I wont go into rehashing everything, not worth the effort, as no one every chages their views.

If you believe that, then you win... or lose... one or the other.