Fritz:"I think Camaro is a wonderful halo vehicle, but can also be a core model".

Hope whoever is in charge after BK has the same sentiment.

so do i.

Agreed. :yes:

What does that mean? Cadillac and Buick two-door offshoots?

Btw, when can we have Camaro, Fritz?

Anyone else thinking Fritz is thinking about Camaro as a 'core vehicle' in the future? Like say the 'core' of Alpha?

Four door Camaros for everyone. J/K ... hopefully.

-Bob

Core is what I consider the V6 Camaro to be. Halo is the LSA powered Z28 :devil:

I wouldn't mind a turbocharged direct injection V6 model in black rebaged as a Buick Grand National!

Anyone else thinking Fritz is thinking about Camaro as a 'core vehicle' in the future? Like say the 'core' of Alpha?


It sounds like people in high places are FINALLY talking about Camaro as an integral part of the Chevy line-up. About time someone at the top said that about Camaro. It's probably been over 20 years since I've heard that kind of commitment to the brand.

You know, I've been thinking about Pontiac. All of that "We Build Excitement" energy is going to have to go somewhere. And Chevy is it.

As far as Alpha goes, Camaro won't be the first product on it, but Camaro will perhaps be the backbone of the architecture.

Four door Camaros for everyone. J/K ... hopefully.

-Bob

Yeah, otherwise how can GM possibly justify the investment given the lowish production numbers?

I hope the sedan is coming!

Bad move, Fritz. Then again you have no control over anything right now, you're a puppet on a string.

Bad move, Fritz. Then again you have no control over anything right now, you're a puppet on a string.

I don't know much about Fritz. I don't know if he's good or bad. I don't know if has a passionate vision for GM or not.

I do know that he's MUCH better at communicating than Wagoner was - both on describing GM's current predicament and the positioning of it's products.

As far as a puppet on a string, other than Mullaly, who isn't?

I think the Camaro could move between 100-200K units if done right. It has done it before..and the Mustang still does it.

I think the pony car market is due for an awakening. Think of it this way...the Camaro was bought in it's hayday by single professionals, or as a second or third car for families as an "emotion" purchase. The SUV boom syphened off a lot of single buyers...and the high cost of SUV's made it so that families could not afford a "fun" car.

With the SUV market severly contracting..either by buyer choice (no longer fashionable), or regulation coupled with credit tightening...maybe people turn back to the cheap pony car as way of making their emotional purchases.

Kinda like Mustang is to Ford...

He doesn't mean a core model as in moving a hundred thousand cars annually. He also doesn't mean that a Camaro could be the basis of every car division GM has left when the dust settles. Or that Camaro will be the center of the GM automotive universe that some here seem to be thinking.

What he means is that Camaro can be one of the core models of the Chevrolet Motor division.... the way the Mustang is a core Ford product.

A halo vehicle is a vehicle that is in the showroom to pull in traffic to sell other models.

A core model is a vehicle that sells on it's own, and is an integrated part of a division's lineup.

The Camaro has been viewed as a car that Chevrolet could do with or without, more as a car to build to attract people into showrooms to buy Impalas, Malibus, and Cobalts.

What he's now saying that people could come into showrooms for the purpose of buying Camaros and Camaro could be a permanent part of the Chevrolet lineup the way Mustang is at Ford's.

In short, he's saying GM could make a permanent comittment to the Camaro (as far as permanence in the automotive business goes).

A "Core Model" isn't what some of you seem to be thinking it means.... but just the same, it's the most positive comittment about Camaro's long term future we've heard perhaps in 30 years.

He's not saying Camaro production will be pumped up to a gazillion cars, or that Camaro will form the basis for everything GM makes with 4 wheels. Not even close. What he DOES seem to be doing is making a tentative comitment on Camaro's future.

That's as best news on Camaro's future as it gets. :)

Bad move, Fritz. Then again you have no control over anything right now, you're a puppet on a string.

Every single CEO in business is a puppet on a string, Josh. And so is every single person below him. Everyone is controled by the whims of stockholders and board of directors.

As Charlie pointed out, in the automotive universe, the only real exception is Ford's Alan Mulally. The Ford family has given him control of the business, and stepped back and let him do whatever he needs, and backed his decisions.

Business is about money. The more successful you are, and the bigger and longer your successful your track record, the less likely you're going to be that so-called "puppet on a string".

Fritz must reorganize GM an make it work, or else he's going to be forced out either by the stockholders or by the ones financing the company.

Nothing new.

I'm personally counting on GM continuing Camaro for years to come, and hopefully revising the architecture every 5 years so that it stays a competitive, relevant and compelling purchase.

The Mustang is a core product to Ford...the essence of Ford. Camaro is the same to Chevrolet...and it needs commitment from high up. From the '70s, when gas prices and UAW strikes nearly killed the car 2 seperate times, to the '80s when the Beretta was supposed to be the next-gen Camaro, to the gradual decline in relevance and popularity during the '90s...the Camaro, and what it represents, deserves better.

The thing I love about both of my Camaros is that every time I drive either one, they both STILL get looks and nods of approval...and both, while being immaculate, are shapes that are far from being a fresh site on the road...

He doesn't mean a core model as in moving a hundred thousand cars annually. He also doesn't mean that a Camaro could be the basis of every car division GM has left when the dust settles. Or that Camaro will be the center of the GM automotive universe that some here seem to be thinking.

What he means is that Camaro can be one of the core models of the Chevrolet Motor division.... the way the Mustang is a core Ford product.



For sure. From roughly the late '80's on, GM management has barely tolerated Camaro in the Chevy line-up.

Ford, OTOH, has always embraced Mustang as a core product. It's place in the product range was always secure.
Ford didn't have to waste one ounce of energy, fighting to keep Mustang from being killed or fighting to bring it back. Nope, all Ford worried about was making the brand successful.

For sure. From roughly the late '80's on, GM management has barely tolerated Camaro in the Chevy line-up.

Ford, OTOH, has always embraced Mustang as a core product. It's place in the product range was always secure.
Ford didn't have to waste one ounce of energy, fighting to keep Mustang from being killed or fighting to bring it back. Nope, all Ford worried about was making the brand successful.

Ford did, however, come insanely close to making the misstep of having what became the Probe be the '89 Mustang. If the fans hadn't gotten wind to start with, that probably would have ended badly.

And we probably owe Ford a debt for sparing the Mustang. Who knows, if they'd released it in the Probe version maybe we'd have been stuck with GM80.

Ford did, however, come insanely close to making the misstep of having what became the Probe be the '89 Mustang. If the fans hadn't gotten wind to start with, that probably would have ended badly.

And we probably owe Ford a debt for sparing the Mustang. Who knows, if they'd released it in the Probe version maybe we'd have been stuck with GM80.

Really close. They even had the tooling done for the rear bumper covers which said M U S T A N G.

When word got out of a FWD Mustang, rumor has it that the very first letter which Don Petersen got from an irrate Mustang enthusiast had the salutation, "Dear a$$hole...."

Thousands of letters followed after that. It didn't take long for Ford to reverse that decision.

Every single CEO in business is a puppet on a string, Josh. And so is every single person below him. Everyone is controled by the whims of stockholders and board of directors.

.

And if that's true every politician is the lackey of the special interests they take their marching orders from and all their appointees are lapdog beneficiaries of the spoils system.

Wow.... There are people with character out there man.

And if that's true every politician is the lackey of the special interests they take their marching orders from and all their appointees are lapdog beneficiaries of the spoils system.

Wow.... There are people with character out there man.

Everybody has a boss. :lol:

I suppose it's all a matter of being able to balence the goals and direction an individual wants to go with what the guys that sign that individual's paychecks want.

Really close. They even had the tooling done for the rear bumper covers which said M U S T A N G.

When word got out of a FWD Mustang, rumor has it that the very first letter which Don Petersen got from an irrate Mustang enthusiast had the salutation, "Dear a$$hole...."

Thousands of letters followed after that. It didn't take long for Ford to reverse that decision.


I remember the pics or drawings or whatever back then with the Probe having Mustang badging on it..

Every single CEO in business is a puppet on a string, Josh. And so is every single person below him. Everyone is controled by the whims of stockholders and board of directors.

As Charlie pointed out, in the automotive universe, the only real exception is Ford's Alan Mulally. The Ford family has given him control of the business, and stepped back and let him do whatever he needs, and backed his decisions.

Business is about money. The more successful you are, and the bigger and longer your successful your track record, the less likely you're going to be that so-called "puppet on a string".

Fritz must reorganize GM an make it work, or else he's going to be forced out either by the stockholders or by the ones financing the company.

Nothing new.

Actually, I was more referencing Mulally, since his string isn't being pulled by this fellow:

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/11/1105_team_obama/image/steven-rattner.jpg

Everybody has a boss. :lol:

I suppose it's all a matter of being able to balence the goals and direction an individual wants to go with what the guys that sign that individual's paychecks want.

And experiences mold our opinions.

I have known more than a few self serving idiots, but I have also known and worked with and for some standup folks.