I wonder....

.... when Fiat takes over Chrysler, it will also be knee deep in trying to take over Opel from GM as well.

If Fiat does end up with both Chrysler and Opel, I would assume that there would be alot of product intermixing. Perhaps selling and/or making and selling a few Opel products here.

Perhaps under the Fiat name.

Perhaps with GM parts.

Almost certainly inside Chrysler's dealer network & showrooms.

Discuss.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090502/AUTO01/905020388/1148/Reports++Fiat+head+to+discuss+Opel+concept

Well I know that GM has been turning Saturn into the American Opel, but im not sure how well thats been working out. I believe that they have been quality products (Aura and Vue) but maybe Saturn has a negative stigma from being sub-par for so long.

I would be happy for them to use Chrysler dealerships, that means that more people get to keep their jobs to service and sell the new Fiat line.

We could probably expect more efficient small cars coming to the states out of Fiat, but I dont really see what they get out of having Chrysler, just large heavy sedans and SUVs and the crappy midsize and small cars like the Sebring, Avenger and Caliber :barf:

Talk about a clusterf*ck.

That said, I'd like to see a more powerful Opel Tigra here.

Doesn't Fiat already use GM platforms and engines from the last 'alliance' they had?

And yeah, it would be pretty hilarious if Chrysler managed to sell Opels that GM never could.

I dont really see what they get out of having Chrysler, just large heavy sedans and SUVs and the crappy midsize and small cars like the Sebring, Avenger and Caliber :barf:

They got $10 billion from the Government to take Chrysler. I'm all for Fiat and GME merging. I like the next generation Opel products and if GM's willing to abandon it then it's yet another stupid decision by the inept leadership at General Motors.

Doesn't Fiat already use GM platforms and engines from the last 'alliance' they had?


Alfa Romeo (owned by Fiat) uses a 3.2L GM high feature based V6. They did their own head work and a few other things.


And yeah, it would be pretty hilarious if Chrysler managed to sell Opels that GM never could.

Dodge Insignia :lol:

Z28x, The Alpha Brera (and other Fiat models that use the same chassis) rides on a modified version of the Epsilon I chassis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM/Fiat_Premium_platform

I don't think the US government should bail out American companies...and then give away stakes to foriegn companies.

Maybe Fiat should be the ones to buy Saturn

I don't think the US government should bail out American companies...and then give away stakes to foriegn companies.

There you go trying to use uncommon sense. (Uncommon because nobody seems to have sense anymore)

I don't think the US government should bail out American companies...and then give away stakes to foriegn companies.

It is preserving US manufacturing, jobs, and tax revenue. I guess the alternative would be Ch 7 for GM and Chrysler and Ford would be the only US company left. (ok Tesla too)

I don't think the US government should bail out American companies...and then give away stakes to foriegn companies.

Then what alternatives are there?

Buy the companies and keep them, costing taxpayers far more massive amounts of money?

Let the companies completely go under, costing taxpayers even more massive amounts of money than simply bankroling the company.... then risking the rest of the economy in the process?

Truth is, even if the government doesn't get back a single dime of bailout or bankruptcy money, as long as the Fiat-Chrysler deal works, the US government would have chosen the path that would cost the least by a very long mile.

Add in the prospect of getting most or all of the taxpayer's money back (an almost certainty if the economy does rebound this year and sustains that recovery even a modest length of time), and even though the idea of Chrysler partially being given to a foreign company might be distastful to some (Fiat only gets 20%...the UAW is the real owner with 55%), this is the only option we have.

Maybe Fiat should be the ones to buy Saturn

There is no incentive or reason to.

Fiat is looking at becoming a very large company to both create an economies of scale. This will give Fiat the ability to better weather economic downturns in bad times, will give them more leverage with suppliers by giving them more volume to leverage with, and makes vehicle creation cheaper.

Anyone buying Saturn is simply buying a marketing & dealer network. The cars are made by GM, and any company looking to strengthen itself isn't going to be intrested. That's why you have no other car maker looking at Saturn.

Opel, on the other hand, actually creates and produces it's own cars. They have their own design center, their own engineering, their own factories. Like Chrysler, Opel would be an inticing target for any car maker looking to expand as long as the advantages outweigh the liabilities and they are compatable.

Chrysler and Opel are full independently standing automotive entities. Saturn isn't. That's what makes the big difference.

It is preserving US manufacturing, jobs, and tax revenue. I guess the alternative would be Ch 7 for GM and Chrysler and Ford would be the only US company left. (ok Tesla too)
Really?

Then why did I just read this morning (Automotive News I think) that the UAW is protesting GM's restructuring plan is sending too much production overseas?

That doesn't sound to me as if "American" jobs are being preserved unless you are primairly referring to management positions in Detroit.

I don't think the US government should bail out American companies...and then give away stakes to foriegn companies.
I would have stopped earlier and left off the "and then give away stakes to foriegn companies" part.

I found this analysis interesting - http://www.christonium.com/automotive/ItemID=12416352316588