A New Pontiac?

MID-MICHIGAN (WJRT) -- (05/01/09) -- A local auto dealer says he's made a purchase offer on the Pontiac brand that he hopes will save Pontiac from its pending demise.
Jim Waldron of Waldron Pontiac, Buick and GMC in Davison is behind the push to save Pontiac.
He made the announcement today during a taping of ABC12's Newsmaker Program. During the interview, Waldron said he has made an official offer to GM company to buy the brand.
Waldron tells us that he and a group of investors, one of them another auto dealer, have been in talks for months when it became clear GM was thinking of eliminating the Pontiac brand.

This week, less than 24 hours after GM make the end of Pontiac official, the investors submitted their purchase offer to buy the brand, a brand that Waldron is convinced is a moneymaker.
"I believe in the brand. I think Pontiac's been a long-term brand. If you look at the recent sales, prior to the fallout of the economy in November, Pontiac brands were coming on real strong; the G-6, the G-5, really gaining market share in many markets, and I think we can still do that."
Waldron would not disclose how much his investor group offered for the Pontiac brand. He did say they would be buying the brand and product licensing only.
They wouldn't be buying the existing plants or taking on the workers in those plants.
They do have a plan for where they would begin manufacturing plants, and Michigan, while near the top of the list, is not at the top unless there were very good incentives.
Waldron says he hopes to hear from GM by next week

I would love to see Pontiac go on.
I just can't see how a small company could make it work.
I can't even fathom how much it would cost to start a competitive car company. Billions? A trillion?
You need factories, engineering, R&D, management, people, designers, suppliers, and on, and on, and on.

I just can't see how it could be done while meeting world class standards.

i doubt GM will sell off pontiac, although it would be nice rather to kill it off or sell it to the Chinese. i just think its unlikely that GM would sell the models or their technology. i think its too much of an undertaking for a small private company. research and development of new models is not cheap.

No. Pontiac is over. Give it up.

We'll be lucky if Chevrolet and Cadillac are around 5 years from now. We'll be lucky if Ford is around - http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-02/5-big-problems-for-ford/

I think Marchionne will rue the day he dreamed of this merger with Chrysler.

Don't be surprised if we have a future of Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, VW, and Hyundai-Kia. A huge percentage of the American public is interested in only the Accord, Camry, Civic, and Corolla.

How deep in the sand could that guy's head be, if he thinks that the G5 has any chance of staying competitive going forward?

How deep in the sand could that guy's head be, if he thinks that the G5 has any chance of staying competitive going forward?

I was wincing thinking that G3 was coming after G5 while reading that.

Once I read G5 I lost hope. This plan has not chance, this guy just wants to whore out the brand with rebadges.

Once I read G5 I lost hope.

Same here. It only got worse when he said the offer didn't include the manufacturing plants...wtf...how cheap and easy does he think it is to build a brand new manufacturing facility, hire new engineers, quality control, production, maintenance, tooling, etc?!?!

Same here. It only got worse when he said the offer didn't include the manufacturing plants...wtf...how cheap and easy does he think it is to build a brand new manufacturing facility, hire new engineers, quality control, production, maintenance, tooling, etc?!?!

There's nothing preventing the new company that would control Pontiac put consultants on the ground, work with GM to perform "new" Pontiac changes to the current vehicle line. Essentially hiring outsourcing GM to perform this work, if GM would relinquish necessary rights.

In theory it sounds plausible if the "new" Pontiac is void of all of GM's overhead, no reason it can't work. Having zero retirees and legacy costs is how the imports put it to the domestics over the last 30 years, no reason why it couldn't work again.

There's nothing preventing the new company that would control Pontiac put consultants on the ground, work with GM to perform "new" Pontiac changes to the current vehicle line. Essentially hiring outsourcing GM to perform this work, if GM would relinquish necessary rights.

In theory it sounds plausible if the "new" Pontiac is void of all of GM's overhead, no reason it can't work. Having zero retirees and legacy costs is how the imports put it to the domestics over the last 30 years, no reason why it couldn't work again.

If you "outsource" the work to GM, you're still paying them for their overhead. They have to make money on the deal too in order to agree to it.

Maybe they could work out a deal to buy X amount of Camaros minus the interior and body and put a Firebird body onto it. Keep the G8 the way it is and develope a 2 door and wagon version. Keep the Solstice alive. Develope a Pontiac body for the new Cruze that will be out.

Why a wagon? Look at what the magnum did.

Why a wagon? Look at what the magnum did.
Would be better than having a SUV in the lineup. Remember this pontiac would be its own company and needs a variety of products. Maybe have their own truck. They could work with any of the manufacturers on this.

No. Pontiac is over. Give it up.

We'll be lucky if Chevrolet and Cadillac are around 5 years from now. We'll be lucky if Ford is around - http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-02/5-big-problems-for-ford/

I think Marchionne will rue the day he dreamed of this merger with Chrysler.

Don't be surprised if we have a future of Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, VW, and Hyundai-Kia. A huge percentage of the American public is interested in only the Accord, Camry, Civic, and Corolla.

That is a personal opinion written by someone VERY uninformed. Has he seen the Fiesta? Or how about the Taurus?

The guy holds no merrit in my eyes. Ford will be around 10 a share by mid summer, mark my word. They are fine.

No. Pontiac is over. Give it up.

We'll be lucky if Chevrolet and Cadillac are around 5 years from now. We'll be lucky if Ford is around - http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-02/5-big-problems-for-ford/

I think Marchionne will rue the day he dreamed of this merger with Chrysler.

Don't be surprised if we have a future of Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, VW, and Hyundai-Kia. A huge percentage of the American public is interested in only the Accord, Camry, Civic, and Corolla.

with that post you lost all future credibility..that was utter gabaaaaggeee!

Who wrote that POS..wow..

There's nothing preventing the new company that would control Pontiac put consultants on the ground, work with GM to perform "new" Pontiac changes to the current vehicle line. Essentially hiring outsourcing GM to perform this work, if GM would relinquish necessary rights.

In theory it sounds plausible if the "new" Pontiac is void of all of GM's overhead, no reason it can't work. Having zero retirees and legacy costs is how the imports put it to the domestics over the last 30 years, no reason why it couldn't work again.

The whole story seems to be centered around a guy who is the Pontiac version of Buickman.

Someone who honestly believes that the product isn't important, that the sales and marketing is the key thing.

His views on manufacturing are just as clueless as Buickmans. His plan which he submitted to GM has shades of early Buickman efforts.

The issue is that General Motors is contributing too many cars to a crowded car market, and that GM has massive liabilities and is totrally unable to keep so many divisions competitive in a fast moving automobile market.

This dealer's offer doesn't address a single thread of an issue.

This dealer completely skips the fact that all Pontiac vehicles are made in GM plants. He also skips that GM has control of the plants.

He also seems oblivious to the fact that G6 is even 2 years older than the current Impala and will need a major overhaul.. um..now! The The Chevy Cobalt on which the G5 is created from will be deal within 24 months. The plant making the Solstice (and Sky) will be shut down in a year.

And out of what's left, he'd have to open talks with Toyota over the Vibe, Holden over the G8, and Daewoo over the G3 (godforbid).

I really have a problem when dealers seem to be so ignorant of the products they sell, and what goes into creating them. With Buickman as the example (who once on another website severely slamed the new Buick Enclave and indicating that GM wasted money creating it when they could continue selling far better Rendezvous (yes, he did actually say that) by implementing his "Plan", which really was barely more than a gold plated dealer incentive and marketing package.

This guy seems to be on the same level.... but hasn't gotten to the Don Quixote stage yet.

I really have a problem when dealers seem to be so ignorant of the products they sell, and what goes into creating them. With Buickman as the example (who once on another website severely slamed the new Buick Enclave and indicating that GM wasted money creating it when they could continue selling far better Rendezvous (yes, he did actually say that) by implementing his "Plan", which really was barely more than a gold plated dealer incentive and marketing package.

This guy seems to be on the same level.... but hasn't gotten to the Don Quixote stage yet.

Oh man I forgot about that. Sometimes I miss the fantasy that guy brought here.

The whole story seems to be centered around a guy who is the Pontiac version of Buickman.

Someone who honestly believes that the product isn't important, that the sales and marketing is the key thing.

His views on manufacturing are just as clueless as Buickmans. His plan which he submitted to GM has shades of early Buickman efforts.

The issue is that General Motors is contributing too many cars to a crowded car market, and that GM has massive liabilities and is totrally unable to keep so many divisions competitive in a fast moving automobile market.

This dealer's offer doesn't address a single thread of an issue.

This dealer completely skips the fact that all Pontiac vehicles are made in GM plants. He also skips that GM has control of the plants.

He also seems oblivious to the fact that G6 is even 2 years older than the current Impala and will need a major overhaul.. um..now! The The Chevy Cobalt on which the G5 is created from will be deal within 24 months. The plant making the Solstice (and Sky) will be shut down in a year.

And out of what's left, he'd have to open talks with Toyota over the Vibe, Holden over the G8, and Daewoo over the G3 (godforbid).

I really have a problem when dealers seem to be so ignorant of the products they sell, and what goes into creating them. With Buickman as the example (who once on another website severely slamed the new Buick Enclave and indicating that GM wasted money creating it when they could continue selling far better Rendezvous (yes, he did actually say that) by implementing his "Plan", which really was barely more than a gold plated dealer incentive and marketing package.

This guy seems to be on the same level.... but hasn't gotten to the Don Quixote stage yet.

Guy,
When I read the original article, my first thought was "is this Buickman?"
It sounds just like him.

How is it GM is likely to sell Saturn and other brands if all these issues of being deeply ingrained into the GM fabric exist? How is Pontiac different than Saturn in this case?

A huge percentage of the American public is interested in only the Accord, Camry, Civic, and Corolla.

Another great American triumph we should all be so proud!!! Let's be sure to tell this to our kids and grand kids as well, we don't want to lose that great American spirit of excellence!!!! :o

This might be an opportune time to prep the kids for $8 an hour, no benefits or health care and no chance in hell at retirement. America doesn't need automobile manufacturing, I mean we're only the country that invented mass vehicle production and employed multiple millions of Americans over the last century, Instead we really need to concentrate on services industry, like mortgage backed securities, that's the real future of America! :o

How is it GM is likely to sell Saturn and other brands if all these issues of being deeply ingrained into the GM fabric exist? How is Pontiac different than Saturn in this case?

The Saturn that is being sold is really just the dealer network with or without a few years of GM cars. This guy is thinking of doing the same with Pontiac BUT it seems like this guy just wants the licensing rights to the Pontiac name and all of its models, something which does have substantial value but without a clue as to how to get other models. The Saturn dealers are preparing to contract specific models for their brand.

Another great American triumph we should all be so proud!!! Let's be sure to tell this to our kids and grand kids as well, we don't want to lose that great American spirit of excellence!!!! :o

This might be an opportune time to prep the kids for $8 an hour, no benefits or health care and no chance in hell at retirement. America doesn't need automobile manufacturing, I mean we're only the country that invented mass vehicle production and employed multiple millions of Americans over the last century, Instead we really need to concentrate on services industry, like mortgage backed securities, that's the real future of America! :o

Probably a good idea. Unforunately there isn't going to be much in the way of well paying jobs like this in America anymore. Caterpillar is moving all the manufacturing jobs away from Central IL to places like China and southern states like Texas and Arkansas (where they will hire cheap Mexican labor to work for pennies an hour). I have numerous friends that work at Cat and are currently being laid off so Caterpillar execs can get more money in their pockets. I doubt there will even be any Cat manufacturing in this area within 5 years. All we'll have is a few offices to house the upper executives.

I don't work in manufacturing, I work in IT. But if we don't have the manufacturing jobs for people to work, where are people like me going to get jobs? Not much use for IT people if you don't have the equipment around that needs to be maintained. Not everyone is cut out to go to college and get a degree. Not to mention how many IT jobs are now being outsourced to places like India and Brazil. A farmer from a field with a crash course in English and a flow chart is NOT a replacement for well-trained and experienced IT professional. I don't care how much money you save by paying him $1 a day. You'll lose hundreds a day just in lost productivity.

Pontiac trademarks will probably be bundled up in "Bad GM" and sold off at bankruptcy auction. I figure they might get a few million bucks for them.

If someone wants to make Pontiac appearance kits, GM will happily sell them Chevrolets at the usual wholesale list price. If there's a market for all sorts of 1990s Honda wings and airdams, I'm sure there's also small market for people who want Pontiac-badged Chevys.

Probably a good idea. Unforunately there isn't going to be much in the way of well paying jobs like this in America anymore. Caterpillar is moving all the manufacturing jobs away from Central IL to places like China and southern states like Texas and Arkansas (where they will hire cheap Mexican labor to work for pennies an hour). I have numerous friends that work at Cat and are currently being laid off so Caterpillar execs can get more money in their pockets. I doubt there will even be any Cat manufacturing in this area within 5 years. All we'll have is a few offices to house the upper executives.

I don't work in manufacturing, I work in IT. But if we don't have the manufacturing jobs for people to work, where are people like me going to get jobs? Not much use for IT people if you don't have the equipment around that needs to be maintained. Not everyone is cut out to go to college and get a degree. Not to mention how many IT jobs are now being outsourced to places like India and Brazil. A farmer from a field with a crash course in English and a flow chart is NOT a replacement for well-trained and experienced IT professional. I don't care how much money you save by paying him $1 a day. You'll lose hundreds a day just in lost productivity.

Wow...pennies an hour? :rolleyes: Companies move manufacturing to the south because, generally the cost of living is lower, and more than likely the plant will be non-union. Even if they hired all mexicans, they still have to pay them at least minimum wage. CAT is hurting right now, as well as most other manufacturing industries, especially those that work in heavy equipment/diesel engines. They can't meet the new 2010 emissions for their on-road diesel engines, so that will hurt. I believe they have an agreement with NAVISTAR to help with that though.

How is it GM is likely to sell Saturn and other brands if all these issues of being deeply ingrained into the GM fabric exist? How is Pontiac different than Saturn in this case?Saturn is basically made up of rebadged Opels. The smart thing to do would be to package Saturn with Opel, giving Opel's buyers a NA outlet already in place.

Pontiac is a different story altogether and cannot be packaged the same way.

MID-MICHIGAN (WJRT) -- (05/01/09) -- ...This week, less than 24 hours after GM make the end of Pontiac official, the investors submitted their purchase offer to buy the brand, a brand that Waldron is convinced is a moneymaker.... Waldron says he hopes to hear from GM by next week

This article ( http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/02/pontiac-dealer-offers-to-buy-brand-gm-says-not-for-sale/3 ) says GM refused the offer the very next day.

Good for them. Wait til the right time to bring Pontiac back... then keep it where it belongs.

Why a wagon? Look at what the magnum did.

I'd buy a G8 wagon, if I had to get a family mode of transportation.

Wow...pennies an hour? :rolleyes: Companies move manufacturing to the south because, generally the cost of living is lower, and more than likely the plant will be non-union. Even if they hired all mexicans, they still have to pay them at least minimum wage. CAT is hurting right now, as well as most other manufacturing industries, especially those that work in heavy equipment/diesel engines. They can't meet the new 2010 emissions for their on-road diesel engines, so that will hurt. I believe they have an agreement with NAVISTAR to help with that though.

You live in a dream world if you believe this. Companies hire illegal labor all the time and pay them next to nothing. Perhaps you should read the news sometime about the various busts that have been made on illegal workers in American plants?

Anyone have any idea how much this guy offered GM?

Pontiac trademarks will probably be bundled up in "Bad GM" and sold off at bankruptcy auction. I figure they might get a few million bucks for them.

If someone wants to make Pontiac appearance kits, GM will happily sell them Chevrolets at the usual wholesale list price. If there's a market for all sorts of 1990s Honda wings and airdams, I'm sure there's also small market for people who want Pontiac-badged Chevys.

...Seems to me, GM could do this easily if they choose since they already own all the trademarks. Spend say, $20M developing and certifying a new front/rear fascia, lights, hood, rear spoiler (maybe new rims too). Sell a "Trans Am" kit thru Chevy dealers for say, $4000. Buyers could have the parts installed & painted at the dealer, and sell their original Camaro hoods/fascia to basically cover the bodywork labor/paint. If they sold 10k units a year, the actual cost to GM would be $2k/unit giving annual program profit of $20M (nearly $40M after the first year). I'd gladly pay $4k to turn my new Camaro into this :)

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d35/Jeanius86/5thGenTA.jpg