Why no Z28

New comparison review just up on MSN:

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=999665&topart=newcarresearch

This is the part that makes me grind my teeth:


Chevy’s just-released Camaro delivers the base LS and LT V6 and performance-happy SS V8 models, but its highly anticipated Z28 flagship now appears stillborn. Developed and ready for production, the exciting Z28 is not likely to appear while General Motors is under such scrutiny that President Barack Obama is dictating who’ll run the company.

yeah its BS. i wish they would/could have not involved the govt. just the beginning of our rights being taken away by ...... nevermind thats a different thread.

They don't have the money to finish development.

They don't have the money to finish development.
" ...Developed and ready for production, the exciting Z28..."

yeah everything ,from what ive heard, is pretty much ready to go. its just not the right time to put out a HI PO veicle after the govt. tells you to start making more fuel efficient cars.

They don't have the money to finish development.

" ...Developed and ready for production, the exciting Z28..."

Correct, but there is the problem of production costs, which occurs during production.

Correct, but there is the problem of production costs, which occurs during production.

All they need do is make the mailslot wider and functional and drop in an LSA. They could use the current production line. Maybe I'm naive but that doesn't seem too expensive.

The Z/28 is going to make a return....

2 things need to happen for the z/28 to come back.... one being that the regular camaros sell exceptionally well. The other is all cars in chevy's line-up need to make an average fuel economy of 35mpg, I belive by 2020. If the z/28 runs a 14/20mpg like the Cts-V, chevy won't pull the trigger until the other vehicles in there line-up can make up the loss.

I can see both those thing happening in the future, maybe around 2012-2013. But you never know......

thats a long way off. by that time they will have to redesign the camaro. they better get it out sooner than that.

I've put any future hopes in a Z/28 into the 6th gen - as slim as they are.

if they ant to do it , they need to do it by next fall. in 2010 as a 2011. just like the vette was with the z06. the c6 vette came out in 05 and the z06 came out in late 06 as an 07. or was it late 05 as an 06?

thats a long way off. by that time they will have to redesign the camaro. they better get it out sooner than that.

Well the ZR-1 came years later....

I still can't see the z/28 coming within the next 2 years.. but I know GM won't let this name slide by if there is a demand

Well the ZR-1 came years later....

I still can't see the z/28 coming within the next 2 years.. but I know GM won't let this name slide by if there is a demand


Why not? They let the Camaro name languish for nearly a decade. And not for lack of demand.

yeah i know the zr1 came years later but the z28 is the top for the camaro and until the zr1 came out the z06 was the top. after the new model came it was a year and a half before the z06 came back. i dont think it would work out if they held their plans from now , til 2 years from now. things change and so would the car and the idea of it. with the design now with the lsa motor, they need to get it out now before the govt. really puts a stop to everything not involved with hybrids.

I see your point....

but we'll see who's right, hopefully you are, because I can't wait.


Btw, a camaro v6 hybrid is still in discussion as a future engine. To bring GM's image up.:p

Was there a Z28 when the Camaro came out in 1966? And can there be a Z28 SS?

There was a Z28 for the 1967 model year, which was the first year for the Camaro.

Z28 in 1967 was not a model. I was an option code. The Z/28 model didn't come into being until 1969.

And yes, there was a SS Z28. 1996.

Thank you. Always getting confused, lol

Why not? They let the Camaro name languish for nearly a decade. And not for lack of demand.

Production of the 4th gen. was stopped for lack of demand. So maybe your point is there was demand, but there wasn't enough to justify a plant dedicated to only Camaro/Firebird?

Z28 in 1967 was not a model. I was an option code. The Z/28 model didn't come into being until 1969.

And yes, there was a SS Z28. 1996.

Quote from "Camaro Exposed 1967-1969" by Paul Zazarine: "Tagged as the next RPO after the Z27 SS Camaro Super Sport Option Package, the 302 Special Performance Equipment Option was designated Z/28, which was quickly accepted as the model name for this new race-oriented Camaro. The Z/28 was released to the press for first driving impressions at Riverside Raceway in November 1966."

That would seem to contradict your opinion. As well, Z/28 emblems appeared on 1968 models. The Z27 SS was also an "option code", having an option code does not mean there is not a corresponding model. And while there were SS Z/28s in later generations, they did not exist in the first two generations.
Clyde

There was a Z28 for the 1967 model year, which was the first year for the Camaro.

Just to clarify, Z/28 for the '67 model year was a mid model year release that went into production in late December of 1966.
Clyde

There is a good article on the Z-28 in the April 2009 issue of Motor Trend with a picture of a hugger orange Z on the cover. To paraphrase the article: "the car is basically done but GM ran out of money" and "some inside the company are wondering whether selling a super-fast, super-powerful two door chevy coupe that will likely get no better than 13-19 mpg is the right thing to do for a company that has had to beg for money".

It would have the 6.2 ltr supercharged LSA V8 (556 hp @ 6100 rpm and 551 flbs torque @ 3800 rpm) and share the CTS-V six speed manual and auto tranny's.

If GM makes them they are probably going to be limited production, numbered models for collectors and some enthusiasts and priced to make a profit.

The new Z would compete against the mustang 500KR (which i've read ford has put on hold also) for bragging rights as to who really is "King of the Road"

There is a good article on the Z-28 in the April 2009 issue of Motor Trend with a picture of a hugger orange Z on the cover. To paraphrase the article: "the car is basically done but GM ran out of money" and "some inside the company are wondering whether selling a super-fast, super-powerful two door chevy coupe that will likely get no better than 13-19 mpg is the right thing to do for a company that has had to beg for money".

It would have the 6.2 ltr supercharged LSA V8 (556 hp @ 6100 rpm and 551 flbs torque @ 3800 rpm) and share the CTS-V six speed manual and auto tranny's.

If GM makes them they are probably going to be limited production, numbered models for collectors and some enthusiasts and priced to make a profit.

The new Z would compete against the mustang 500KR (which i've read ford has put on hold also) for bragging rights as to who really is "King of the Road"

So there is a Z28 roving around somewhere. Wonder how many they're thinking of releasing if they are at all

So there is a Z28 roving around somewhere.

sort of...the bumblebee camaro from the new transformers movie is based off a Z28 model that chevy made up

I keep saying this, but wait until GM makes a Cadillac CTS-V coupe before the half-price version shows up at Chevrolet.

God i hope it comes out. If and when it does i should have enough income coming in to purchase one .... And i will buy it.

Quote from "Camaro Exposed 1967-1969" by Paul Zazarine: "Tagged as the next RPO after the Z27 SS Camaro Super Sport Option Package, the 302 Special Performance Equipment Option was designated Z/28, which was quickly accepted as the model name for this new race-oriented Camaro. The Z/28 was released to the press for first driving impressions at Riverside Raceway in November 1966."

That would seem to contradict your opinion. As well, Z/28 emblems appeared on 1968 models. The Z27 SS was also an "option code", having an option code does not mean there is not a corresponding model. And while there were SS Z/28s in later generations, they did not exist in the first two generations.
Clyde
Zazarine's book is a nice read, although there are some inaccuracies. For instance RPO Z27 did not exist in MY 1967 or 1968. To get an SS 350 you had to select the engine RPO L48. To get the 396 you'd order L35 (325hp) or L78 (375hp). Also there were actually four Z28 RPOs. In 1967-8 RPO Z28-1 was the "base" Z28; Z28-2 included the air plenum; Z28-3 included headers; and Z28-4 included both the air plenum and headers.

Clyde is 100% correct on the badges. 1967 Z28s had no badges other than the fender mounted "camaro" badge. Early 1968 Z28s had 302 badges, which changed to "Z/28" after March 1968.

There is a good article on the Z-28 in the April 2009 issue of Motor Trend with a picture of a hugger orange Z on the cover. To paraphrase the article: "the car is basically done but GM ran out of money" and "some inside the company are wondering whether selling a super-fast, super-powerful two door chevy coupe that will likely get no better than 13-19 mpg is the right thing to do for a company that has had to beg for money". You do realize that "picture" is just a Photoshop artist's rendition by MT and no "official" or "leaked" 5th Z/28 picture exists from GM. :p

Zazarine's book is a nice read, although there are some inaccuracies. For instance RPO Z27 did not exist in MY 1967 or 1968. To get an SS 350 you had to select the engine RPO L48. To get the 396 you'd order L35 (325hp) or L78 (375hp). Also there were actually four Z28 RPOs. In 1967-8 RPO Z28-1 was the "base" Z28; Z28-2 included the air plenum; Z28-3 included headers; and Z28-4 included both the air plenum and headers.

Clyde is 100% correct on the badges. 1967 Z28s had no badges other than the fender mounted "camaro" badge. Early 1968 Z28s had 302 badges, which changed to "Z/28" after March 1968.

I find listings for RPO Z27 SS in quite a few books and all over the net, are you sure it did not exist in '67/'68? The engine codes you mention were indeed for the correct engine you wanted with the SS package. I believe the '67 Z/28s had the V-8 flag emblems with 302 on them, all V-8s had the flag emblems with engine size. In '68 they did away with the flag emblems just in front of the door and put engine size badges (like the 302 you mention) on the front fender just at the nose of the car. I remember when I was getting ready to purchase my first Camaro, there was a burgundy Camaro with 302 V-8 flags and wide black Rally Stripes on the lot, no one seemed to know much about it (and I knew nothing about a 302 or a Z/28), so I ended up buying a '67 RS 327. I later found out what that 302 Z/28 was all about, so when I traded in '69 I bought a Z/28.
Clyde

I find listings for RPO Z27 SS in quite a few books and all over the net, are you sure it did not exist in '67/'68? The engine codes you mention were indeed for the correct engine you wanted with the SS package.
According to the Camaro Research Group's RPO database, Z27 did not exist until the 1969 MY. (http://www.camaros.org)

I believe the '67 Z/28s had the V-8 flag emblems with 302 on them, all V-8s had the flag emblems with engine size. In '68 they did away with the flag emblems just in front of the door and put engine size badges (like the 302 you mention) on the front fender just at the nose of the car.
Actually 1967 Z/28s had no V-flag, and no engine displacement. They just had the "camaro" emblem on the fender and of course "Chevrolet Camaro" on the header panel and trunk. If they were equipped with the RS option they also got the "rs" badges, but that was it.

I remember when I was getting ready to purchase my first Camaro, there was a burgundy Camaro with 302 V-8 flags and wide black Rally Stripes on the lot, no one seemed to know much about it (and I knew nothing about a 302 or a Z/28), so I ended up buying a '67 RS 327. I later found out what that 302 Z/28 was all about, so when I traded in '69 I bought a Z/28.
Clyde
Nice trade! :D. Are you sure it was a '67 Z/28 and not an early '68? The 302 emblems would make sense on a '68 (located in front of the wheel openings), but not the V-flags. Incidentally, "302" engine displacement badges in the 1967 size and location don't exist except as perhaps an incorrect recreation.

According to the Camaro Research Group's RPO database, Z27 did not exist until the 1969 MY. (http://www.camaros.org)


Actually 1967 Z/28s had no V-flag, and no engine displacement. They just had the "camaro" emblem on the fender and of course "Chevrolet Camaro" on the header panel and trunk. If they were equipped with the RS option they also got the "rs" badges, but that was it.


Nice trade! :D. Are you sure it was a '67 Z/28 and not an early '68? The 302 emblems would make sense on a '68 (located in front of the wheel openings), but not the V-flags. Incidentally, "302" engine displacement badges in the 1967 size and location don't exist except as perhaps an incorrect recreation.

Well, it was a few years back!! Maybe where I saw the 302 was on the air cleaner (I knew most all '67s I saw back then had V-flags, so easily remembered wrong for me), it was for sure a '67 as the '68s were not out yet (around May of 1967) and I picked through a lot full of '67s to get my 327 RS. By the time the '68s were out for a couple of months I had learned enough about 302s to know I wanted one but could not make it happen until '69.:cool: And it was one sweet ride (and oh those chambered exhausts)!!
Clyde

sort of...the bumblebee camaro from the new transformers movie is based off a Z28 model that chevy made up

Thats pretty cool. Think it would look better in red and black:cool:

not sure of they have been posted or not, but these are pics from another camaro book out there. They appear to be taken in a design studio and there is a model of the "Z28".
Z in red, and 28 in white. Not sure who the people are. Sorry for bad quality...cell phone pic of the pages
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/ChevyCobb/IMAG0039.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/ChevyCobb/IMAG0041.jpg

Which book is that from?

The people in that picture are Sang Yup Lee (I believe) and Tom Peters, if people want to put faces to the names.

All they need do is make the mailslot wider and functional and drop in an LSA. They could use the current production line. Maybe I'm naive but that doesn't seem too expensive.

It is simple, the problem here is the opportunity costs of building the Z28. GM can apply the money needed to produce the Z28 toward that end or they can apply it elsewhere. Right now, they are choosing to apply it elsewhere. In plain terms, GM would rather be doing something else with that money rather than build a Z28.

My guess, that money is going toward keeping the lights on.

They don't have the money to start production.
Fixed.

All they need do is make the mailslot wider and functional and drop in an LSA. They could use the current production line. Maybe I'm naive but that doesn't seem too expensive.
That is a huge oversimplification.

First of all, if the renderings we've seen are correct, it's a completely different hood and front fascia. There's a scoop on the hood, and no mailslot. I'm going to guess that the body and fenders are different too (wider fender flares to accommodate larger tires; there's no room for them otherwise). Then, of course, there would be the wider wheels and tires themselves.

The added weight from the supercharger probably means different springs, at least in the front. Different springs probably mean different shocks.

There is certainly some custom stuff in the interior (they'd have to have a Z28 version of every part that has an SS label on it, which includes seats, door sills, gauges, steering wheel, and more). Gauges would be different (at the very least showing the LSA's different redline, and possibly incorporating a boost gauge).

So, at the very least, that's dozens of Z28-specific parts. They have to coordinate with all of the suppliers to start production shortly before the vehicle line gets moving, and they have to get the supply chains moving. For components already in use on other vehicles (the LSA, for instance), they have to ramp up production to accommodate the additional demand.

Finally, they need to figure out where they're going to build it (probably Oshawa), make room at that plant for all of the necessary supply lines, and get everything set up to accommodate it. Finally, they need to train the line workers on how all of the Z28-specific stuff goes together.

Furthermore, once they actually start building cars on the production line, the cars have to be validated, crash tested, and EPA tested. They would need to do a captive test fleet of Z28s built on the production line in order to iron out any potential bugs.

When they say it's "developed and ready to go", that doesn't mean that they just have to throw a switch and the first production Z28 could roll off the line the next day. There is still a ton of stuff that has to happen, and all of it costs money. GM simply doesn't have the cash to do it right now, and nobody wants to loan it to them.

Which book is that from?

The people in that picture are Sang Yup Lee (I believe) and Tom Peters, if people want to put faces to the names.

I will have to look around to see if I can find it. barnes and noble had it on one of their bargain shelves for $10. Had a head on shot of a red 5th gen on the cover with a black background

i like how they got rid of the fake scoop and just made it in the hood. led fog lights too it looks like. looks like a convertable behind them too.

not sure of they have been posted or not, but these are pics from another camaro book out there. They appear to be taken in a design studio and there is a model of the "Z28".
Z in red, and 28 in white. Not sure who the people are. Sorry for bad quality...cell phone pic of the pages
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/ChevyCobb/IMAG0039.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/ChevyCobb/IMAG0041.jpg

Those pictures look sweet....can anyone photoshop those into a full car?

The new Z would compete against the mustang 500KR (which i've read ford has put on hold also) for bragging rights as to who really is "King of the Road"

Ford has really nothing to do with the KR, so it seems odd they would put another KR model on hold (its purely a Shelby deal), but in terms of power its moot, the regular '10 GT500 puts out 540 hp and IIRC like 510 ft/lbs. thanks to a revised engine calibration, knock sensors and a cold air setup.

Those pictures look sweet....can anyone photoshop those into a full car?

Sure! :p
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/chev_camaro_z-28_01.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x273/jb_da_nerd08/IMG_0236.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/ChevyCobb/Bumblebee2.jpg

Ford has really nothing to do with the KR, so it seems odd they would put another KR model on hold (its purely a Shelby deal), but in terms of power its moot, the regular '10 GT500 puts out 540 hp and IIRC like 510 ft/lbs. thanks to a revised engine calibration, knock sensors and a cold air setup.
the 2010 gt500 is essentially the same as the kr. well the motor atleast.