1967 Camaro SS 350 Vs 2010 Camaro V6

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0809_2010_camaro_v6_vs_1967_camaro_ss_350/index.html

Good article!

Is it safe to say the new Camaro V6 would be more comparable to the 69 Camaro Z28? I dont know what times that car put out, but I say that because high reving small displacement engine with big HP output.

What was an option over the 350? 396? What kind of times did that do?

I'm really excited about the new Camaro V6, funny since I owned one already and never thought I'd say that again. :cool:

Most 1969 Z28s (stock) are going to run high 14s to mid 15s. They can be much faster with steep gears, but weren't really meant to be a drag racer.

Although the horsepower numbers are similar, the '67 SS-350 had an additional 110 lb-ft of torque. Give the '67 the advantage of a 6-speed transmission like the '10 V6 and I'll wager to say it would blow the doors off the newer Camaro. :p

Most 1969 Z28s (stock) are going to run high 14s to mid 15s. They can be much faster with steep gears, but weren't really meant to be a drag racer.

I could be wrong, but my GUESS is that a '69 302 DZ1 Z/28 will clean the clock of a '10 V-6 Camaro.

I could be wrong, but my GUESS is that a '69 302 DZ1 Z/28 will clean the clock of a '10 V-6 Camaro.

Nope.... not even close.

The 1967 Z28's quickest 0-60 time was 6.9 seconds to 60 mph. May 1967 Motor Trend recorded 7 seconds flat.

Quarter mile times were right around 14.8 seconds at 101 mph. MT also got 14.8, but recorded 96 mph.

2010 V6 Camaros with 6 speed manuals are expected to reach 60 in 6 seconds flat, and have a quarter below 15 seconds. That puts the V6 Camaro well ahead of the Z28 off the line at at the very minimum equalling it in the quarter mile.


Trivia:

Base brice for a new Z28 in 1967 was $3,273
Base Camaro coupes started at $2,466
Top of the line SS-RS396 began at $3,177

Corvette coupes started at $4,388

Median wage for an adult male in 1967 was $5,900
Today, the median wage for the same is $40,600

The Z/28's had a severe disadvantage in the quarter due to the fact that the motor wasn't making power until above 4500rpm's. Keep in mind these things would scream to 7500rpms and would top out close to 140mph. Add the dual quad cross ram and some real tires, now you have something. But again, this car was never made for drag racing, it was only sold to homologate it for the Trans Am racing series. They dyno'd closer to 400hp.

The Z/28's had a severe disadvantage in the quarter due to the fact that the motor wasn't making power until above 4500rpm's. Keep in mind these things would scream past 7500rpms. Add the dual quad cross ram and some real tires, now you have something. But again, this car was never made for drag racing, it was only sold to homologate it for the Trans Am racing series. They dyno'd closer to 400hp.

A specially prepped Z/28 did a 13.77 @ 107mph in C & D back then, 5.3 0-60. I'm assuming that was gears, tires, tuned and the cross ram. Not sure about actual mods, but it gives you an idea of the potential. Even the slow times are trapping in the 101-105mph range, a better indicator of the actual power than the traction limited times show.

With that being said, I'm actually very interested in the new V6 because it'll surely be fun to drive. My most recent modern 'performance car' was an Audi S4 2.7T, 6 speed, which only had 260hp, and weighed about the same. I could still beat a few V8's in it, including one tool in a Bullitt that never gave up....so I'm assuming the fun factor will be quite high on the V6 Camaro, even though it's fairly portly.

Nope.... not even close.

The 1967 Z28's quickest 0-60 time was 6.9 seconds to 60 mph. May 1967 Motor Trend recorded 7 seconds flat.

Quarter mile times were right around 14.8 seconds at 101 mph. MT also got 14.8, but recorded 96 mph.

2010 V6 Camaros with 6 speed manuals are expected to reach 60 in 6 seconds flat, and have a quarter below 15 seconds. That puts the V6 Camaro well ahead of the Z28 off the line at at the very minimum equalling it in the quarter mile.


Guion,
Eric said 1969 Z/28. Not 1967.
Unless he meant 1967.
I was just going off what Eric had posted.

And now that I look, so did Chris in his original post (in the body, not the title).

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0809_2010_camaro_v6_vs_1967_camaro_ss_350/index.html

Good article!

Is it safe to say the new Camaro V6 would be more comparable to the 69 Camaro Z28? I dont know what times that car put out, but I say that because high reving small displacement engine with big HP output.

What was an option over the 350? 396? What kind of times did that do?

I'm really excited about the new Camaro V6, funny since I owned one already and never thought I'd say that again. :cool:

I thought the Z28 only came with the high revving 302 V8 with the cross ram intake being optional? The SS came with a 350 in a choice of 300 or 350 hp, (with the 350 hp being the high nickel block), then a couple versions of the 396 at 325 and 375 hp. I can't remember what the 427 options were (after that my brain cells from 1969 got a little bit "foggy" in 1970).:confused::confused::confused:

By the way....everybody I knew running the 69 Z28 cars had 4.10 gears in them. I think it might have been standard...but was needed to make them run because they had no bottom end torque. Ya had to light them up off the bottom to get into your horsepower range and try to figure out a way to get the tires to hook up. Wheel hop was seldom a problem (unlike mustangs).
However....none of the guys I knew got more than 30,000 miles out of an engine before they started smoking and blowing oil. Everybody used to drive 85-90 on the freeways back then, and the cars were a daily driver. Those Z28 cars with the 4.10 gears were screaming RPM's at that speed on the freeway for miles and miles and did'nt hold up despite the solid lifters in them. Needless to say, most of the guys I knew sold them when the engines started puking out.

A specially prepped Z/28 did a 13.77 @ 107mph in C & D back then, 5.3 0-60. I'm assuming that was gears, tires, tuned and the cross ram. Not sure about actual mods, but it gives you an idea of the potential. Even the slow times are trapping in the 101-105mph range, a better indicator of the actual power than the traction limited times show.


I believe that was a '68 that had 4.10s in the rear vs. the standard 3.73s. Most guys drag racing 302 Z/28s seem to have at least 4.10s and usually 4.88s from what I've seen.

As far as other 1968s, in June 1968, Road and Track got a 6.9 second 0-60 and 14.90 at 100. July 1968 Car Life got a 7.4 second 0-60 and 14.85 at 101 in the quarter.

I thought the Z28 only came with the high revving 302 V8 with the cross ram intake being optional?

That's right.
My cousin had a '69 DZ1 Z/28 with the single 4 bbl and that car SCREAMED!!

Although the horsepower numbers are similar, the '67 SS-350 had an additional 110 lb-ft of torque. Give the '67 the advantage of a 6-speed transmission like the '10 V6 and I'll wager to say it would blow the doors off the newer Camaro. :p

Yes, the old one does have the torque advantage, but if you read the artical you will see it stands no chance stock vs stock.

I've spent some time tracking down sound clips of the new camaro and it sounds 350z/ Infiniti G to me.

By the way....everybody I knew running the 69 Z28 cars had 4.10 gears in them. I think it might have been standard...but was needed to make them run because they had no bottom end torque. Ya had to light them up off the bottom to get into your horsepower range and try to figure out a way to get the tires to hook up. Wheel hop was seldom a problem (unlike mustangs).
However....none of the guys I knew got more than 30,000 miles out of an engine before they started smoking and blowing oil. Everybody used to drive 85-90 on the freeways back then, and the cars were a daily driver. Those Z28 cars with the 4.10 gears were screaming RPM's at that speed on the freeway for miles and miles and did'nt hold up despite the solid lifters in them. Needless to say, most of the guys I knew sold them when the engines started puking out.

Standard rear gears on '69 Z/28 was 3.73, 4.10 was an available factory option and I think (but don't remember for sure) that you could also get 4.56 from the factory.
Clyde

I thought the Z28 only came with the high revving 302 V8 with the cross ram intake being optional? The SS came with a 350 in a choice of 300 or 350 hp, (with the 350 hp being the high nickel block), then a couple versions of the 396 at 325 and 375 hp. I can't remember what the 427 options were (after that my brain cells from 1969 got a little bit "foggy" in 1970).:confused::confused::confused:

The '69 SS350 came with a 300HP version (different than the 295HP versions in '67/'68), I have never seen, heard, or found any listing for a '69 350cid/350HP in a Camaro. The only other factory option 350cid enginges for '69 Camaro was a 250HP and a 255HP version. The 396cid was available in 325, 350, and 375 HP versions. 427cid versions were 425HP and 430HP.
Clyde

The '69 SS350 came with a 300HP version (different than the 295HP versions in '67/'68), I have never seen, heard, or found any listing for a '69 350cid/350HP in a Camaro. The only other factory option 350cid enginges for '69 Camaro was a 250HP and a 255HP version. The 396cid was available in 325, 350, and 375 HP versions. 427cid versions were 425HP and 430HP.
Clyde


I'll believe you Clyde because like I said....things got foggy in 1970....but it smelled nice with the incense. :freakout::freakout::freakout:

. 427cid versions were 425HP and 430HP.
Clyde

I didnt know you could get that much from the factory? What kind of times would they put out?

A friend of mine is semi storing a 67 with a 400 from a GTO and it seems fairly fast!

I like the 1967 despite being "worse" as motor trend puts it, than the new V6 Camaro.

HP and all that stuff are just numbers. just look at it, the 1967 back in the day, was heart stopping good looking. GM didn't even stop there, every year they improved on it till the jaw dropping 69 one.

Man to be in that era of automotive history must of been like heaven.

To my knowledge, Chevy never offered a 427 in a Camaro except for the ZL1 cars and the COPO cars.

Also, the original "Z" was a high HP, low torque motor. The bore/stroke was very under square. It could rev like crazy but had no torque down low. It was in NO WAY a drag racer. It was intended solely for road racing where you could keep the revs high.

I like the 1967 despite being "worse" as motor trend puts it, than the new V6 Camaro.

HP and all that stuff are just numbers. just look at it, the 1967 back in the day, was heart stopping good looking. GM didn't even stop there, every year they improved on it till the jaw dropping 69 one.

Man to be in that era of automotive history must of been like heaven.


I think that is a generational thing, I felt the same way when the 97 Camaro came out, that it couldnt get any better, then the 98's rolled out and stole my heart:yes: Cars like the Corvette, and GTO also did that for me.

I think it's part of being young and liking cars and where they fit into your life. Hopefully that can continue for future generations. I'm 25 now, but when I (supervise) my 17 yo brother Driving my GTO, I see it in him too, the excitement.

To my knowledge, Chevy never offered a 427 in a Camaro except for the ZL1 cars and the COPO cars.

Also, the original "Z" was a high HP, low torque motor. The bore/stroke was very under square. It could rev like crazy but had no torque down low. It was in NO WAY a drag racer. It was intended solely for road racing where you could keep the revs high.

Add all of the factory performance options to the order list, the right gears, and someone that knows how to drive one.....your opinion would be very different. The 1st Gen Z28 holds more drag racing records than big block SS Camaros IIRC. (and of course SCCA road racing ones also)

I think it would be fair to say that a 5th gen V6 will take a 1st gen 350/300 0-60 and in the quarter, although the trap speeds might be close.
keep in mind that if you compare one to a 1st gen Z/28 with a M22, I think they had a 2.20 1st gear. The 5th gen will have a 4.XX gear in the auto, so the torque multiplication is about 70-80% more even with the taller rear gear and tires the 5th gen has.

To my knowledge, Chevy never offered a 427 in a Camaro except for the ZL1 cars and the COPO cars.

Also, the original "Z" was a high HP, low torque motor. The bore/stroke was very under square. It could rev like crazy but had no torque down low. It was in NO WAY a drag racer. It was intended solely for road racing where you could keep the revs high.

That would be correct, the 427 was offered in COPO and ZL1 but was not a factory SS option. I would disagree that the 302 Z/28 was "in NO WAY a drag racer" having owned and driven a '69 Z/28 in 1969. While it's design intent was as a road racer, it certainly had the ability to compete in the 1/4 mile, just ask any of the many drivers from that era that had their behinds handed to them by a Z/28.
Clyde

Man to be in that era of automotive history must of been like heaven.

It was, and trust me, one day someone will say the same to you about today.;)

Add all of the factory performance options to the order list, the right gears, and someone that knows how to drive one.....your opinion would be very different. The 1st Gen Z28 holds more drag racing records than big block SS Camaros IIRC. (and of course SCCA road racing ones also)

The "intent" of the Z28 was to be a road racer. With the right options, even a Cobalt can perform well in the 1/4.

It was, and trust me, one day someone will say the same to you about today.;)

Remember when car's ran on gasoline??? :)

The "intent" of the Z28 was to be a road racer. With the right options, even a Cobalt can perform well in the 1/4.

Ah yes, but that was not what you said or implied! When you said "It was in NO WAY a drag racer" along with your engine explanations, you excluded it from ever having any 1/4 mile performance. Others have mentioned the NHRA records held by the Z/28 along with the SCCA Trans Am records, I can certainly attest to what was happening in the real world back then (rather than "bench racing") as I bought a '69 Z/28 new in 1969, being 20 years old at that point you can bet I was willing to wring all of the performance out of it that I could. Friday and Saturday nights at the local hangouts certainly ended up proving/disproving how good different cars/models/configurations ran in the real world. And being older and wiser now, I do not condone the street racing that took place back then when there was far less traffic to deal with.
Clyde